Yes, you read that correctly. What I have is a 1967 Mercury Cougar that I have converted to all electric drive. Now before you loose your minds over such a horrible thing to do bear with me. This car has 425HP and 800lb. ft. of torque at 0 rpm!!
I'm transferring this power via a 4r70w. This particular 4r is out of an 03 Mercury Grand Marquis, I have the eec-v out of the same vehicle.
Here is what I need to do: Turn off all engine controls, everything. All I need is the "crankshaft signal". Which I have from another sensor I installed to control my auxiliary transmission pump.
All I want to do is control torque converter lock up and shift points.
Thanks to any and all who are willing to help.

nobody on this forum is going to scold you for doing such, everyone here is well aware that an electric motor clearly outperform a combustion engine of the same rated output

what your trying to do is pretty straight forward

It sounds like what you need instead is a transmission controller. Those are made and look just like an EEC-IV and in fact tune just like an EEC-IV as well. They were common on diesel trucks that had diesel engines that didn't need an EEC, but had an electrically controlled transmission.

I believe this is going to serve you far better. Contact sailorbob for details and a def file.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

That's nice to know. A lot of muscle car guys think it's sacrilege to do what I've done.

I appreciate the info, but I already have the eec-v and the tweecer to get this done. Buying another controller is not in the budget.

Budget or not, I doubt you'll be able to do what you are trying to do with an EEC-V without some serious modification. Don't get me wrong, anything is possible with enough time and resources including heavy modification to the BIN file to force the EEC to do what you want. And BTW it's not often apparent or obvious but, that's not called tuning, that's called re-programming. Tuning is modifying the parameters available in a tune to match your specific application. But the code paths and algorithms themselves are still as they are. Reprogramming is far more invasive and is where you are modifying the algorithms (i.e. the code).

To give an example, lets say you have a tune where all that is available is a single algorithm with the following scalar configuration:
a + b

The stock values may setup the algorithm to be:
1 + 2

You could "retune" the algorithm to be any of the following:
2 + 3
3 + 4
5 + 10
etc.

But the algorithm will always be a summation of the two editable scalars a and b. If you change the algorithm to include more scalar values or perform mathematical functions other than summation of two scalars, then that's akin to reprogramming the tune. Hopefully that gives you a decent idea of the conceptual differences between what we refer to as EEC tuning (typical and common practice) vs reprogramming (very rarely done).

Now onto some specifics about Ford EECs. As-is, Ford EECs with transmission control capacity base much of their transmission control strategy on what the engine is doing. Unless you can dumb transmission control down to just Throttle Position and Speed, I'm not sure you can sever engine management and transmission management cleanly by tuning alone. You might, so I don't want to completely discourage your hopes and intentions. If you find otherwise, then I just proved my ignorance on just how capable Ford EECs are. And for your sake, I hope I am proven wrong. That'd be neat to think an EEC can be "tuned" to abandon engine control and focus completely on trans control management. I just honestly don't believe that is the case and even if it is, I don't think what you'd be left with would be nearly as functional and versatile as just tuning a stand-alone transmission controller. In the short and long run, I truly believe you'll be FAR better served with a piece of equipment that was specifically designed to do exactly what you are wanting to do.

As for the TwEECer, it would work on the EEC-IV based TCM I'm thinking of. So if you did abandon your EEC-V in favor of a Powerstroke Diesel EEC-IV controller (catch code CAW0), you could use the TwEECer to tune it along with sailorbob's def file and BinaryEditor.

But the TwEECer has proven that it does NOT work on an EEC where the tune you are trying to run is a different strategy (i.e. programatically different) than the tune in the host EEC. For example, you cannot load a TwEECer with a GUFB-based tune such as an A9L and have it operate on a GUF1-based EEC like an A9P. Interestingly, the Moates Quarterhorse allows this. I wish I could tell you the technicals of why the TwEECer is so ticky when it comes to mismatched strategies. All I know is it's been attempted many times to no avail. So if you did find you need to reprogram the EEC-V, I doubt the TwEECer is going to work for you anyway. And if you are intent on using CalEdit to tune the thing, you are probably in for an even bigger disappointment.

BTW, what EEC is it you are trying to make do all this? I've also moved this thread to the Hardware Discussions since this is more a discussion about hardware capabilities than it is about a specific tuning problem.

If you do want to read up more on the Powerstroke Diesel TCU, either search this forum or Google-search for Powerstroke CAW0. There should be more than enough info to keep you busy.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Wow! That's a lot of info. Well, the ecu is a CAV3. I was told that the tweecer can do shift points and torque converter lock up that's why I went that route. Looks as though I may have purchased the wrong thing.

It's true, you have all those controls in the EEC-V. You can adjust for instance 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shift up and shift down points as well as a bunch of other related things. But as a part of that logic, the trans control logic usually wants to base these decisions on the estimated torque being produced by the engine which is based on the engine RPM/Load. The RPM/Load are values that are calculated...RPM from the distributor/crank sensor. The Load from possibly a number of sources, the main one being the tune's setting of engine CID, the MAF sensor, possibly getting some influence from ECT, ACT, TPS, etc etc. If your application doesn't have those inputs, it'll be interesting work to trick the EEC into coming up with RPM/Load values that make sense and do for you what you want, when you want.

There are alternative controls in the EEC that base trans control off of throttle position. These are basically the same controls that will be available in a stand-alone TCM controller. Although I don't know what the details are about just how much you can tune that CAV2 to base trans control solely off of TPS and completely ignore what the engine is doing. My guess is the EEC will, at a minimum, need to see RPMs in order to operate correctly but that's purely a guess. You may simply be able to use a pickup on the electric motor for a PIP input to get the EEC to calculate RPMs and then somehow fudge MAF, ECT, and all that other stuff to fool the EEC into doing what you want.

A person more experienced with that EEC's strategy and what the trans control options are will have to speak as to how much of all that is able to be abandoned in order to give you an effective stand alone TCM. Like I said before, I'm not saying it can't be done. It might be that with some skillful EEC fooling tactics, some resistors, and some other rigging, you find a usable option. And if you do, document what you did and how well that worked. But I still believe you'll be far better served by not fighting the nature of an EEC in an effort to fool the EEC into doing what you want and instead using a device like the CAW0 to work WITH you in your efforts and not display a bunch of stuff you have no need for.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Spoofing ECT and RPM will be no big deal, MAF is a different story. I was told before buying the tweecer that the 03 Grand Marquis really didn't use the MAF that much for shifting. It was primarily looking at that for torque vectoring in the converter. With that in mind it was reasonable to assume once the converter is locked up vectoring is no longer possible and the eec looks at throttle position, which I have, RPM, which I have, and the VSS to calculate shift points. If that's the case then isn't reasonable to assume that if I tell the tweecer to activate the TCC solenoid with key on, remember I don't "idle", that the eec would then instantly ignore any MAF input and use the strategies I program into the tweecer?
I know I'm assuming a lot here and that can be a problem.

I don't know. Because I don't know what hard-coded controls Ford put in to do things like neutral the transmission when it detects the RPM is 0 and thus sitting still.

So if you forego the Torque Converter and run the motor directly into the transmission, then you get an issue where the oil pump isn't spinning to engage the clutches at 0 RPM.

Likewise if you run a torque converter, then you may have to "idle" the electric motor or you may get some take-off rough engagements because the EEC is thinking the engine is starting up from a crank condition because the EEC thinks it is starting out of crank AND your transmission pump won't have been running so you'll be trying to take-off building transmission line pressure from zero.

There may be nothing to be concerned with here, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have some dynamic interaction landmines to deal with in practice doing what you are wanting to do with this EEC-V even if you think of ways to technically get everything to work.

As for the MAF not being used, it's not directly used. But any EEC that uses engine Load as a parameter to determine shift points and shift firmness is using the MAF indirectly. It'll be your homework assignment to investigate how your EEC's strategy handles transmission shift points and shift pressure.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

You will not be able to take off properly from a stop if the electric motor turns off. When you hit the go pedal, the car will not do anything until the transmission pump builds pressure and the converter fills.

In EEC-IV systems, shift points are fairly simple TPS vs MPH tables, with fixed WOT gear change RPM scalars. I believe the converter lockup tables were similar. IF the EEC-V shift tables are setup the same way, it may be possible to use it as a transmission controller.

Load was primarily used to determine line pressure. With no MAF, the computer will default to maximum line pressure. It might be possible to get around this however.

@Cgrey, the CAW0 is not a Powerstroke EEC. It was a 7.3 IDI computer that could only control an E4OD. 4R70Ws and E4ODs use an incompatible control scheme. The 7.3 Powerstroke was electronically injected, and used EEC-V system.

The TCM I'm thinking of is the one used on 94 F-series diesels that was stand-alone. But you may be right that even those are E4ODs. What I wasn't sure of is if the trans controller could be configured for either, but was simply only deployed on E4ODs. Sounds like if he's got a 4R70w, then trying to make an EEC-V or CBAZA (EEC-IV) is about the only option.

But as you said, preventing the need for pump-up and TC fill time is going to force the electric motor to "idle" while the vehicle is sitting still just to keep everything primed. But that might mean the motor only has to spin at say 300 RPM. That might be enough just to keep things primed so you can take-off immediately.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

as i stated before what your trying to do is pretty straight forward, i told you to call me you never did, your loss

the tweecer doesn't serve the bin on startup, its a secondary serve, thus the original EEPROM on the ecu is loaded then the tweecer serves up its binary, thus you can't swap strategies, unlike the qh which serves up right off the boot

the ecu does not need rpm or maf input to control a transmission, as i said previous, what your trying to do is pretty straight forward

building pump pressure with an electric motor is the least of your worries, the converter will complain way before you have to worry about line pressure

btw, trans 101 added to sig, even though its not complete as of yet

_________________
http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

As abrasive as that came off, it did sound like good news even if it is wrapped in sand paper.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Engine speed and MAF, or MAP in the case of speed density, do get used quite a bit for transmission control.

None of which can't be worked around?

Not quite sure how you could have a WOT shift point without rpm

He said he does have RPM from the motor and a TPS sensor.

I don't know enough about EEC-V or trans control strategy to know what can and cannot be worked around. It would just be a shame for him to have to resort to an aftermarket Baumann Transmission Controller. They work, but he's already invested in an EEC-V and TwEECer. A Baumann is probably the cost of both of those put together.

However I don't know what avoids the pump-up other than running a minimum RPM on the electric motor to keep the transmission primed for immediate take-off. A manual transmission conversion would've probably been simpler and more efficient. Although even a TremecT56 magnum might have difficulty staying together with an electric motor capable of 800ft-lbs.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

You could probably do some crazy nonsense to "simulate" a MAF signal. Motor current is roughly proportional to torque, so if you get a 0-5v current transducer and setup a transfer function for it, you could probably get a reasonable torque approximation with some fiddling.

I have an external pump to maintain fluid pressure in the trans while my main motor is below 250 rpm so the converter and all the clutches are full of fluid and at the proper pressure.

What primes the converter is the spinning. Centrifugal force slings the fluid to the edges and any air in the converter is forced to the center where it is returned to the transmission as it is replaced with more fluid. When stopped, the fluid at the top will want to fall down. What I don't know is if the converter being sealed will be enough to form a fluid lock thus holding the fluid in place. If no air can get in, then the fluid will stay. I just don't know enough about auto trans design to know if the return is under fluid in the trans return reservoir or open to the air in the transmission. For all I know, the fluid primes in the converter and stays primed until you drain it.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

How do you have it hooked up? The only way for that to work is if you tapped right into the pump's discharge port and supplied pressure there.

Hooking a pump up to the transmissions external cooler lines will not work, as those typically only run 10-20 PSI. The external cooler fluid is typically used to lubricate bearings once it has passed through the cooler.

Pressure can be maintained at the pressure test port.

Just a quick update. After installing the eec-v in the car Saturday I'm happy to report that decipha's tune has my torque converter locking up right away. Everything seems to be good, I'm going to install my obd2 port this week before my first drive and check all the data lines to make sure I'm connected and receiving everything the eec-v needs to shift.
Thanks everyone!!

any update?