In an effort to ditch my C&L, I wanted to replace it with an LMAF. However after talking with decipha, it seems the LMAF has a larger inlet and outlet than the old GT MAFs had. Older GT MAFs, according to my quick-n-dirty measures, have an inlet diameter of 3.5" and an outlet of 3". An LMAF's output is at least 3.54" (90mm) and the inlet is closer to 4". So the LMAF isn't even close to a drop-in without some rigging.

So instead of going the LMAF route, he's recommending I go to a slot style MAF sensor and simply fabricate an intake track out of PVC or whatever I can find that'll work. Cut a hole in the side, slide the sensor into the pipe, and then figure out a MAF curve from there. That sounded doable enough, so I found the guy he buys used slot-style MAF sensors from on eBay and snatched one up for $21 shipped including a connector that plugs into the sensor.

So on to how I make that work. This is what I'm working with now:

That's a modified piece of mandrel bent 3" aluminum pipe from a Mustang CAI kit. As you can see, it's not quite a 90° angle. There wasn't enough room to maintain the full 90° turn, so I had to cut into the angle a bit to make it work.

If I don't mind a crease in the pipe, I think I could get a tighter angle from an exhaust shop bending up a piece of 3" exhaust pipe. However decipha dropped the idea of using PVC pipe to fabricate it up with just because it's a bit easier to work with. Giving that some serious thought, I got on the Internet and looked up what the standard dimensions are for PVC pipe. This is a website I found useful:
PVC Pipe Size Dimensions, Identification & Pressure Ratings

It seems PVC is sized based on OD, not ID. A piece of 3" PVC is actually 3.5" OD which is the diameter I need for the cone filter to fit. Unfortunately, that's a bit big for the TB end. But the website also talks about using different size and grade PVC pipes to make telecoping reducers instead of using reducer fittings. Using their chart, should be able to get a piece of 2.5" pipe (2.875" OD) and slide that inside a piece of 3" schedule 80 (2.900" ID) to reduce it down right in front of the TB. And to keep as much flow capacity as possible, I'd want to get Class 200 (thin walled) 2.5" pipe which has 2.601" ID. The only X-factor is going to be how big the 90° PVC elbow will be and if it is going to interfere with anything. In theory, this is looking doable using PVC. But before I jumped, I thought I'd throw it out there to anybody else to comment.

I realize the joints inside of PVC pipe wouldn't be as smooth as a single piece of bent metal pipe, but I'm hoping I can deburr and put ramp-edges on all the pieces to smooth out the path as much as possible so there are minimal sharp edges in the flow. And yeah, the sharp bend of a typical PVC elbow isn't going to have as nice of a flow as mandrel-bent metal pipe. But I'm hoping this will still be an improvement, not a step backwards from the setup I've got.

If I can't manage to get the 3" pipe to work, the next option is to drop down to 2.5" PVC and telescope up to 3" at the filter.

Any reason not to go this route?
Or any thoughts an easier/cheaper alternative?

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I'd say, easiest would be to replace that C&L with some straight 3.5" OD aluminum tubing, PVC if you must. Then replace that silicone coupler with a 3.5 to 3" reducer. Done.

_________________
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

...and this is why I ask questions to get others' opinions. Excellent suggestion and simpler yet.

I'll measure the actual OD of the aluminum pipe you see in the pic, but there's a chance it'll fit inside a short piece of 3" schedule 40 (3.068" ID) or Class 200 (3.166" ID) PVC . What I don't remember is if the edge is in the bend or if it's got a long enough straight cut under the silicone coupler right there at the MAF to fit inside a pipe without leaking. I know the edge up at the TB is not straight. You can see the "bend" the pipe is making off the TB.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I would have just run the stock explorer MAF, your not going to get a noticeable difference through the stock explorer TB.

I have the flow chart for a stock 97 MAF if you need.

_________________
75 Maverick, 5.0EFI, trickflow twisted wedge heads, Explorer intake, 24# injectors, E303 cam, 70mm T-Bird MAF, 65mm Explorer TB, T5 trans and 3.80 rear.
94 T-Bird, 4.6 PI heads and intake, 80mm lightning MAF, 24# injectors, 4R70W trans with Mark VIII converter and 3.73 gears in rear.
2004 F250 super duty 5.4 untouched and used to tow anything I blow up back home.

ASE Master Technician and Advanced Level Specialist.
It's not what I know, It's knowing what I don't know.

If that aluminum pipe ends up touching the mouth of the T/B and the positive terminal on that alternator the MAF will be the least of your concerns.

_________________
75 Maverick, 5.0EFI, trickflow twisted wedge heads, Explorer intake, 24# injectors, E303 cam, 70mm T-Bird MAF, 65mm Explorer TB, T5 trans and 3.80 rear.
94 T-Bird, 4.6 PI heads and intake, 80mm lightning MAF, 24# injectors, 4R70W trans with Mark VIII converter and 3.73 gears in rear.
2004 F250 super duty 5.4 untouched and used to tow anything I blow up back home.

ASE Master Technician and Advanced Level Specialist.
It's not what I know, It's knowing what I don't know.

I thought about that since I have the Explorer MAF in my basement, but I measured it, and it has a similar problem as the LMAF. The outlet is 3.5", not 3". Although I think the inlet is smaller thus requiring a 4-bolt flange with different bolt pattern than the LMAF.

Note, the intention in replacing the C&L is not to get a higher flow capacity. The C&L 73mm with blue tube is good to well over 1100kg/hr...which is enough to handle the 331. It's to get a steadier, more-accurate, flow reading than the C&L currently gives butted up against that bend. Some people have argued that the bend being downstream shouldn't have an affect on the MAF, but it does. The C&L's sensor is on the edge of the flow path. Clocking the C&L has noticeable changes to the flow behavior. My hope is the slot style MAF taking its reading closer to the center of flow will be more consistent.

Yeah, that's already happened...years ago shortly after I got the V8 installed. Fortunately, the damage was minimal. There's a tiny burn hole in the bottom of the aluminum pipe (smaller than a pencil eraser) and probably some blister marks on the TB & pipe. I gooped up the hole with silicone gasket to seal the hole and pad it from the bolt. I wish I had the red rubber cap that protects the alternator bolt. But that didn't come with the engine.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I had a similure problem on my Maverick. I just kept turning the MAF on the pipe until I got a good stedy flow on the datalogs. But when I went to a 95 mustang meter i had less problems because it takes its samples from the center rather then the top like the C&L.

_________________
75 Maverick, 5.0EFI, trickflow twisted wedge heads, Explorer intake, 24# injectors, E303 cam, 70mm T-Bird MAF, 65mm Explorer TB, T5 trans and 3.80 rear.
94 T-Bird, 4.6 PI heads and intake, 80mm lightning MAF, 24# injectors, 4R70W trans with Mark VIII converter and 3.73 gears in rear.
2004 F250 super duty 5.4 untouched and used to tow anything I blow up back home.

ASE Master Technician and Advanced Level Specialist.
It's not what I know, It's knowing what I don't know.

I can't complain a lot since it's worked from the V8 installation inception and is still in there now. It works, it's just not ideal. And I've always suspected that the tuning challenges I've had with AFR stability have been related to the MAF and/or the intake track characteristics. So before I swap to the 331, I want to try a "better" MAF in the configuration I have now just to see how much difference it'll really make.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I got the slot MAF sensor. The design of this sensor is FAR more technical than the old style MAFs which were literally nothing but 2 sensors suspended between leads located directly in the airflow. This sensor has an inlet in the slot with 2 sensors up close to the air flow and next to slots put in the side of the case. Then there's another sensor deep at the end of the air flow travel. The air flows out a hole at the bottom of the sensor as well as out of holes in the sides directly under the inlet. I can't say I fully understand the design, but it sure looks like far more thought and design was put into this sensor.

So for those interested, here are the pertinent details. The Ford number across the bottom is:
3L3A-12B579-BA

There's also some letters and numbers on the end:
USA
6L27
H388E


The sensor is 2 5/8" deep from the base mounting surface down to the bottom of the sensor. The thickness of whatever pipe it is mounted in will take up some of this length.

The center of the air inlet on the sensor is 1 3/4" down from the base. Some pics on the Internet show the MAF slipped into a flange which would also take up some of this length. But how necessary is it to have it mounted in one of these? Here's a pic of one:


I was just envisioning screwing it right down to the PVC and maybe using some sealant around it, but being the sensor came with a rubber ring around the base, I don't know that this will be absolutely necessary as long as I can get a solid seal. Thoughts?

It's roughly 3/8" thick in the airflow and 1 3/8" deep. That's the dimension the rectangular hole in the pipe the sensor will go through.

Pinout:


And my existing wiring harness has a connector that looks more like this:


I'll just have to wire this MAF's 4 corresponding wires into my harness.

Have I missed anything?

Oh yeah. What's the "stock" transfer curve for a slot style MAF? And what diameter pipe is that curve for? From there, I think can come close to an adjusted curve for the actual diameter of whatever pipe it ends up in by simply adjusting for the % difference in cross-sectional flow between my application and the "stock" setup.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I can snap you a pic of the harness I made up, tomorrow. Pretty straight forward. bender460 on here and sbftech just siliconed in the sensor. Might ping him if it's still holding good. He also has a spreadsheet. There was a post in here that we worked to get it closer. Give me a few and I'll see which curve in EA is the slot and the diameter it is in.

_________________
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

GYX1 (06 GT), stock diameter is 79mm

_________________
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

Interesting.

In a 79mm diameter, the slot style MAF only reads up to ~1000kg/hr. That's surprising. I would've expected it to be higher than that for a diameter that big. After doing some quick conversions of different ID pipe diameters, the sched 80 3" pipe would have the sensor in a 73mm diameter. That's 85% of the stock cross-sectional surface area...and that's just a quick-n-dirty calcuation. I didn't reduce both surface areas by the cross-section that the sensor blocks in the flow. In a 73mm diameter, the sensor would be maxed out ~850kg/hr. While that would be OK for my current setup, that would be undersized for the 331.

To keep capacity >= stock, I'll need to get a Class 200 3" pipe for the sensor (~80.4mm). That's only a 3% increase in surface area over stock diameter. Depending on tolerances, I could probably run the stock curve and adjust out any error in the injector slopes. The PVC website says there's up to 10% error in PVC pipe IDs so what I'll do is take an actual measurement of the pipe where the sensor is located and determine how much adjustment is required based on that. Who knows, I might luck up and get a piece of pipe that's very near 79mm.

If for some reason, I can't get Class 200, the 3" sched 40 (77.9mm) isn't completely unacceptable with only a 3% reduction in capacity over stock.

For those that have done these alternate pipe diameter conversions, how important is it to compensate for the cross-section of the sensor that's in the flow?

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I have no clue on the whole slot maf, but I know I just went through fabbing up a custom 3.5" CAI based off of the AFM Power-pipe. These came in VERY handy, and not too expensive to cure your sizing issues and tight bends.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230517230937?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_873wt_802

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230517244284?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_873wt_802

As usual, let me know if the links don't work. And you know what? I completely forgot I was supposed to get the dimensions on that maf flange when I did this last weekend

_________________
1986 Mustang LX, 1997 Explorer Long Block, GT40P Heads never pulled off s/b, Professional Products Upper/Lower intake and 70MM TB. Converted to MAF using A9l GUFB strategy, 03-04 Maf, Scotty Brown custom is now installed, this thing ROCKS! TFS springs/retainers/pushrods, BBK LT Headers and Xpipe, Dyno Max welded muffs, UD pulleys, Polished/Coated 4.30 gears, Z-code T5, Moates Quarterhorse, Binary Editor. 11.78@113.91 mph at Milan Dragway, 11-18-12. 1.56 60FT best. 329RWHP/353RWTQ SAE

Very nice. Being these are rubber, I'm sure they would flex a little if you needed a little more or less than a perfect 90 where rigid PVC is what it is.

These rubber elbows also look smoother and more like what you'd expect to see in an engine bay. Many PVC plumbing fittings have an obvious look and aren't easy to disguise as a "car" part but I'm hoping to get a smooth elbow that can be spray painted to not be so obviously PVC. But if I need something more specialized like one of these rubber elbows, it's nice to know they exist.

Thanks for sharing.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Well, I went to Ace Hardware...and it goes down hill from there.

First off, it turns out their 3" fittings are the crappy looking fittings I was wanting to avoid, but whatever.

Next, I find their thin walled 3" pipe isn't the same OD as 3" sched 40. One seems to be OD based and the other ID based. They even have different fitting types. So you can't mix-n-match thin walled and sched 40 pipe. What they call thin walled isn't Class 200 as described in that link above. It's a different sizing standard in an effort to dummy-proof using drainage (thin walled) PVC pipe on a pressurized system.

Finally, 2.5" PVC pipe appears to be an oddball size. They stock 3" and 2", but no 2.5". I'll go to Lowes tonight and see what they have. If they don't have a better variety, then I'll need to go to a plumbing supply store and see if there's any chance they carry what I'm looking for.

I'm also going to check and see if I can fit the aluminum pipe that's already being used inside either thin walled or sched 40 3" pipe. If it fits inside either of those sizes, then that's going to be my next plan.

It's Always Somethin'...

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I got a piece of 3" sched 40 back to the house and the aluminum pipe fits right inside it no problem.

So I abandoned the use of a PVC elbow and am going to reuse the aluminum piece. I eyeballed the pipe length I thought I'd need, cut a piece off and started test-fitting it. It's a tad long, but before I go trying to shorten it, I'm going to see if I can make it work. The longer the piece, the better to get the most straight flow across the sensor.

Next, I got a rectangle cut out of it for the sensor. There's more work to do to get the rectangle opened up enough that the sensor's rubber seal goes down into the hole. But the sensor at least drops into the pipe. Once I get that done, it's just a matter of sealing it all together and splicing the connector into my harness. I also want to knock the sharp edges of the PVC ends down and paint the pipe piece so it's not quite so obvious its a PVC pipe. Is there any particular kind of paint that people have found works best on PVC?

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Well, it's in. I got the pieces I needed and between the pipe from the hardware store and unused pieces from the CAI that I kept years ago, I got it to work.

Here's the PVC pipe, with the rectangle hole cut and an indention where the rubber seal can go down into:


Pipe with sensor just installed:
The silicone gasket is still wet so I put the tie straps on to hold the sensor still while the silicone cures. I'll keep the straps in place for the time being, but I expect they can come off after a day or so.


End view:
As you can see a 3" ID suits the slot style MAF sensor quite well. Although based purely off the stock curve for a slot style MAF, I'd highly recommend others using the slot style MAF sensor to use a 4" pipe or larger if there's room. With the 3" ID, the sensor tops out ~1000kg/hr and you don't want to run a sensor to the max so the sensor as you see it is only usable for ~325hp N/A...less with a mild boost. I haven't done the math to figure what it'd top out around with a 4" pipe.


Here's the contraption installed:

Ignore the finger prints I got all over the pipe dulling the surface. As you can see, the 3" pipe just does fit. There's not much chance I could get a 4" along with reducers into this same space without relocating the battery. It would've been a lot easier had the oil fill pipe not been in the way causing a bit of grief. There was a good bit of finagling to get a workable angle between the pipe and the aluminum elbow. I also wasn't comfortable with the collar's ability to seal given the OD difference between the elbow and the pipe. So I put electrical tape around them (under the blue collar) to make sure they sealed. Then I slipped the collar over & cinched it down as tight as I could get.


Since I used a sched 40 3" PVC pipe which gives me ~78mm ID, I just ran the stock curve for this sensor as it exists in EA. It seems to work. It needs to be tweaked some, but for the most part, it idles the engine, drives fine, and WOT AFRs are pretty darn close to LAMBSEs. Analyzing the log of the 1st drive, the Injector Slope calcs show MUCH better control than the C&L gave. The thickness of the line produced by the datalog using this sensor is much narrower than what the C&L generally produced. Of course this is only off of a 10 minute drive, but that's at least encouraging. I'll tweak it out on the daily drives to and from work and get a better feel for how it behaves and if this really is a noticeable improvement. If anybody's interested, I'll post before-n-after Slope screenshots to show the difference in "quality" between the C&L and slot style MAF. With it not dialed-in, it's difficult to say whether it is better than the C&L on the road. I certainly can't see how it'll be worse.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

fun, now you can let the hegos control your fuel correctly and all will be well in the world

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

After driving into to work, the main thing that is improved is transient take-offs are much smoother. With the C&L, accelerations from a stop always ran the engine a tad lean, but even when I would get the tip-in rich with tune tricks, acceleration from a stop always had a tiny bit of hesitation because the MAF readings were not stable and generally all over the place. Even the emissions guy noticed it when he had the truck on the dyno that when he pushed on the throttle, it wasn't an immediate response. It was a little boggy and delayed. I've long since gotten used to it. But with this MAF, tip-ins are noticeably snappier and smooth. It's not a night-n-day difference, but it's enough for me to notice and hopefully something I can improve on.

For the big output engines, I have to believe that there are aftermarket slot sensors that read much higher flow capacities than the production sensor does. After all, my C&L was a 73mm MAF and topped out around 1300kg/hr with a blue (24lb) tube. The pipe is ~78mm and thus quite capable of flowing anything the old MAF could and more...with less resistance. So I have to believe there are higher capacity slot sensors out there. But what about higher capacity production sensors? Does Ford have a "high output" slot style production sensor that measures higher flow capacities from the same diameter port?

BTW, I also updated the title of this thread in case others are searching around for info specific to slot sensors. Hopefully the info here will be useful.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

IMO the 3L3A-12B579-BA sensor is a good "fit" for 99% of NA applications. Maybe for more of a MAX performance application in mind that is... My thoughts are if your NA engine wants 1500KgHr worth of air then a good pipe diameter would be in the 4" range. Anything smaller IMO would start becoming a restriction to the induction system with that amount of air demand. Again thinking of max effort NA applications.

The HPX sensor would be ideal for any boost applications that more often than not use a smaller diameter pipe. I know of no other ford sensor that will read more air in a given pipe diameter than the 3L3A-12B579-BA. Maybe look in fords resent boosted applications. Eco-boost??

_________________
stock block 347, highports, CI TLSR
C-4 8" 4500 stall, 3.90 8.8
Super victor efi intake, 03 cobra 39lb injectors
4500 Wilson TB Speed density setup with a Map-Ecu
1 3/4 kooks- 3" dumps, a9lL/Map-Ecu, Tweecer
Techedge wideband
11.19 at 120.... D.A. of 5500' (love this mountain air)

Google searching HPX, I see that it is a PMAS sensor that appears to be a drop-in upgrade to the stock production sensor I'm using. I also see it being used in some blow-thru applications as well.

What about the stock sensor. Is it suitable for blow-thru? I ask because people find the LMAF does not work well blow-thru.

And I also see hints that the HPX is programmable in some way. If that's true, can you elaborate on what is programmable about it and what are its limits?

I did some quick-n-dirty math to see about how much a 4" pipe changes the sensor's performance. From my calcs, all points on the MAF curve get multiplied by 1.667 when using a 4" (102mm) pipe and this sensor. That would put the top row flow value at ~1700kg/hr which agrees with your statement that applications pulling up to 1500kg/hr are well suited good using this sensor in a 4" pipe. The math I used is as follows:

Cross-sectional area of stock setup (79mm):
(79/2)²π = 4901.7

Cross-sectional area using 4" PVC (4.02" or 102mm):
(102/2)²π = 8171.3

Percentage increase by going to 4" pipe:
8171.3 / 4901.7 = 1.667 or 166.7%

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

You may want to leave the ties on. I know silicone does not stick well to acrylic.

_________________
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

I considered whether to drill into the pipe to put screws in or not. In haste to get it installed, I decided against it. I can always go back and do that. But for the time being, I guess I'll just leave the zip-ties in place. They aren't hurting anything being there.

I did Google around to find what paint works on PVC. It seems PVC doesn't hold paint well at all in it's raw form. The PVC production leaves some kind of waxy coating that doesn't adhere to much of anything. And even with the wax stripped/sanded off, the PVC molecules tend to resist adhesives too. The only way to get stuff to stick to PVC is to use a material that melts the PVC, which is what the PVC glue does to literally weld PVC pipes together. The site I read said to wash the surface with acetone which washes the wax off and somehow alters the PVC molecules to make them hold paint a little better. Then rough-up the surface to give more surface area for the paint to grab a hold to. The paint I used is the same stuff I sprayed the upper intake of the 331 with which may not have been the best stuff to use (engine enamel). If it flakes off, fine, I'll redo it later with better stuff. For a daily driver, I care less about how it looks than how well it works. Although if it can look better than white PVC, I'd prefer that. Time will tell if I just made a bigger mess trying to paint it rather than leaving it white.

_________________
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Running the new MAF for a few drives now and I cannot get over how much smoother the engine responds on transients. I knew the C&Ls sucked, but I never realized just how badly they sucked.

Assuming your application isn't so boosted that it'd max out one of these sensors in a 4" pipe, I'm not sure why anyone looking to upgrade/replace a MAF wouldn't default to one of these. It wasn't but a year or so ago that the LMAF was what everybody was praising. As long as the guy on eBay continues selling these gems for $21 shipped WITH a connector, why would anyone not choose one of these? I'm just trying to figure out what their downside is.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I think most of the downside is the custom fabrication involved. Also the tuning required.

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stock block 347, highports, CI TLSR
C-4 8" 4500 stall, 3.90 8.8
Super victor efi intake, 03 cobra 39lb injectors
4500 Wilson TB Speed density setup with a Map-Ecu
1 3/4 kooks- 3" dumps, a9lL/Map-Ecu, Tweecer
Techedge wideband
11.19 at 120.... D.A. of 5500' (love this mountain air)

After a week of driving and tweaking, things are going great. Still, this new MAF is smoother and more stable than the C&L ever was.

I've made small tweaks to the tune but NONE of my tweaks have been to the MAF curve!!!! I've been able to dial in the fuel purely through tweaking the Injector Slope/BP values. With the C&L, my high slope was in the 18.5 range. With this MAF, they are happy at 19.4...much closer to what the injectors actually are. There is a tiny bump here-n-there in EA's MAF calc, but with my latest tweak, the vast majority of my datalog's curve tracks right with the stock '06 GT curve. And unlike with the C&L, I did not have to artificially lower the idle area of the MAF curve to get my idle LAMBSEs proactively low to prevent lean tip-ins.

I'm absolutely impressed and a little annoyed I didn't replace the C&L earlier. Have I said how much C&L's suck compared to newer MAF technology?

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

well at least your happy now

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

I could probably reactivate Adaptive Learning and actually have it work for me instead of causing problems hence why I disabled it to start with.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I'm kindof annoyed that I went with a C&L as well, and didn't just go with a slot. Seems a lot easier to deal with, and I think a lot of my problems came from the C&L /sigh

oh well, it's plenty fast/responsive with the ol 4bbl

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1978 Mustang II King Cobra
89 5.0HO, Stock Short Block, Edelbrock 4bbl aluminum intake, Holley 650 double pumper, MSD 6AL, Ford F303 cam, 1.7:1 Crane Roller Rockers, Pocket Ported stock heads, Hedman Long Tube Headers
5 spd Manual
Full roll cage, 9" full floater w/Currie trac lock/373 gears, RCI Fuel Cell
Project Page: http://www.brandttuning.com/projects.htm

My point in even having this thread is so others, like you, read about the benefits of the center-sense MAFs like the LMAF and slot style MAF. So if they are having problems and they have a C&L (or similar), then this might be an alternative to consider.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com