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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:33 am 
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I tend to agree with you that valve events are more important than the durations/center/LSA values. But people find those less cumbersome to deal with.

As for your cam, I don't doubt that it pulls hard to 6800 and is no slouch getting there. Wider LSA smooths a torque curve out across a wider RPM range. Narrow the LSA on your cam to 110 and the engine would most likely make higher MAX HP, but would have either less torque at the top, less torque at the bottom, or both. Personally, I prefer a 112 & 114 over 110 LSA for street applications for this very reason.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:56 pm 
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cgrey8 wrote:
I tend to agree with you that valve events are more important than the durations/center/LSA values. But people find those less cumbersome to deal with.

As for your cam, I don't doubt that it pulls hard to 6800 and is no slouch getting there. Wider LSA smooths a torque curve out across a wider RPM range. Narrow the LSA on your cam to 110 and the engine would most likely make higher MAX HP, but would have either less torque at the top, less torque at the bottom, or both. Personally, I prefer a 112 & 114 over 110 LSA for street applications for this very reason.


From what I've learned, LSA is a machine parameter and marketing gimick. If every company stoped advertising LSA, you would look at camshafts in a different way. The right way IMO.
Try this, look at the timing and duration events between the two cams and not the LSA. What is really going on causing the change in power production?

But in the end, like you, I'm just starting to learn and it's hard not looking at the number. I just try to ignore it now and I've really started to see what's going on with the airflow and how it ties into injector timing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:53 pm 
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When I 1st started looking into cams, I thought the same thing...LSA is just a number that happens to exist, but can't really play a significant role since the only things that really matter are the events themselves. When does the intake valve open? When does it close relative to the exhaust? When does the exhaust close? But the more and more I stared at various cams, read, and ran simulations, the more LSA stayed in the same regions of 112-114 for either optimal power or optimal torque in the street RPM range. however as soon as you need max HP in the high RPM range, the durations and events align in such a way that LSA narrows. It's not intentional, but it's something you can almost rely on to happen. And I think it is this unintuitive LSA behavior that keeps people using it as a point of reference.

Although after running some simulations, I did run into something interesting. I ran a simulation to give me the optimal cam for max torque, then I ran another simulation for max HP. And interestingly the max under-the-curve HP (max average HP) run was requiring a cam with LSA in the 114 range and the cam with max tq under-the-curve was calling for an LSA of 112. That's just backwards to what I expected until I stared at it and then it occurred to me. I was asking for it to optimize across an RPM range of 2000-5500 and I was asking for max AVERAGE HP and Tq. Well, Tq peaks on the engine sim I was running around 3500 and it's a pretty sharp peak. Because it was a sharp peak, it maximized the area under the curve to narrow the LSA which made the peak even more pronounced. Where the HP curve was very smooth and broad. The LSA of 114 raise the majority of the curve but as I noticed, my original interpretation was correct. The narrower LSA gave the higher MAX HP value even though the max AVERAGE HP was gotten with an LSA of 114. I don't know why I found that so interesting. I suspect most people would've just gone...well that's interesting and not thought more about it, but that detail bothered me until I figured it out. It's kind of like if someone mathematically proved to you that 2+2 didn't equal 4. You have to figure it out or it'll drive you crazy and almost starting to wonder how you could've believed in such a false world where 2+2=4. But once you figure it out...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:15 pm 
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http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/index.html

Good reading here..... LSA to me is just a trend some times seen. Definitely not a design criteria. Buddy explains it well in his confusion factor section.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:25 pm 
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LSA may just be a trend seen. Since the VAST majority of the looking I've done has been for mild street applications on my 331 build, I have NOT been analyzing anything about cams as it relates to moderate performance, strip, or high RPM. I'll read that article and see what I can learn from it. I'm no expert, but I do like learning from those more informed than me.

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