Idle issue..Crank..starts..stalls

[roh92cp]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

[EDS50]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

So far so good but time will tell.

[EDS50]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

So far so good but time will tell.

It was good for 2 days and back to the stalling crap. I am gonna try something else.

[roh92cp]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

So far so good but time will tell.

It was good for 2 days and back to the stalling crap. I am gonna try something else.

Thats what I've thought, same thing I've run into so many times now seems 1 to 2 days and the stalling comes back. Adaptive is definatly working against us here. After talking with my old tuner he says I should try running the car with adative control off, and he further stated that Diablosport recommends leaving adaptive off for all power adder or wild NA combos...

[EDS50]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

So far so good but time will tell.

It was good for 2 days and back to the stalling crap. I am gonna try something else.

Thats what I've thought, same thing I've run into so many times now seems 1 to 2 days and the stalling comes back. Adaptive is definatly working against us here. After talking with my old tuner he says I should try running the car with adative control off, and he further stated that Diablosport recommends leaving adaptive off for all power adder or wild NA combos...

I have tried with adaptive disabled and it still came back. I have some ideas Clint gave me that I am gonna try. I will keep you posted.

[roh92cp]

It doesn't seems possible now, but it sure will be nice when we can put this thread to rest.

[EDS50]

It doesn't seems possible now, but it sure will be nice when we can put this thread to rest.

I am determined...

[BobCat]

Setting the cells in adaptive made no difference in the stalling with the a/c on. Its weird how I can step on the brake pedal and push the cutch in @ 40mph and the rpm drops like a rock to 500 rpm or just stalls and other times it happens at 10 or even 5mph. and sometimes it just doesntdo it at all. what the heck could be going on, and this all is happening with teh idle set to 850 and 950 with the a/c on.

I'm with you brother, we have the same problem. Its so random how it comes and goes, very frustrating.

I think I may have made some substantial progress today. I kinda went back to the beginning and started over. I started by resetting the base idle and making sure the throttle body set screw was in the correct position and once that was done I reset the tps to 0.95 on the BE digital dashboard. From there back in the car I went and since I am using an a9l ecu but an X3Z tune, I decided to take all of the "idle" related scalers functions and 1 table and set them to the factory a9l specs on the X3Z tune. Then I went back to page 1 of this thread and applied all of cougar5.0's settings as he illustrated them. I did make dasmin slightly larger and set it to 0.3501 just to have some extra cushion. Once I set everything the way cougar5.0 has his I cleared the kamrfs and started the car. It hunted up and down a little bit which a adjusted by setting numpr to 1.2031 for starters since I know the bottom end of my maf curve is a tick rich and that cleared up the idle hunt. Once adaptive started learning the new settings the idle became more and more stable. With about an 1/8" tweak to the tb set screw, I got iscdc down to 36 and ipsibr down to 0.0. I also set fn111 values that were 0 spark to 19.50 to try and better limit spark hunt dipping too low at idle. With those settings the rpm was still dropping too fast for me so I went into fn879 and experimented by adding 0.20 lb/min to all the values between the top and bottom rows on the left side. The dashpot settings are what seemed to cure the fast idle drop. The idle does hang ever so slightly but not enough to be concerned over and even with the a/c on the car will not stall out coming to a stop. I am not saying its fixxed yet but todays test drive proved succesful as I tried to make the car conk out with the a/c on and it did not shoot passed 900 rpm once on a decel. The end result is my car idles steadily at 800 rpm and 860 with the a/c on. When coming to a stop the idle will hang at 1050 rpm and hold steady until I come to a complete stop and then settle down to 860 with the a/c on. so far so good I guess but I want to give the ecu a couple of days to let adaptive fully run its course and see if the settings stay. For some reason or another, my car always idled better with the a9l idle settings vs. the x3z idle settings. Wierd but it is what it is. Once I am done with any final tweaks and give adaptive a chance to do its things, I will post my settings up the same way cougar5.0 was nice enough to do. Just for the record I have used cougar5.0's settings in the past with great success but for some reason I got away from them (brainfart I guess) and that is when I started having my troubles. Hopefully I am back on track now.

My fingers a crossed for you. Lets hope it works.

So far so good but time will tell.

It was good for 2 days and back to the stalling crap. I am gonna try something else.

Thats what I've thought, same thing I've run into so many times now seems 1 to 2 days and the stalling comes back. Adaptive is definatly working against us here. After talking with my old tuner he says I should try running the car with adative control off, and he further stated that Diablosport recommends leaving adaptive off for all power adder or wild NA combos...

Thats because they don't know any better...... on extreme combos I run it in open loop all the time but I've never even considered it on anything under the 600hp range.

[decipha]

maybe you should bite the bullet and upgrade to the cbaza strat you'll have alot more parameters at your disposal to do exactly as you want

[iamperson347]

I have cbaza and mine acts no better

[EDS50]

maybe you should bite the bullet and upgrade to the cbaza strat you'll have alot more parameters at your disposal to do exactly as you want

Why dont you come back when you have something half way intelligent to contribute to this thread.

[Bradone]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I am totally new to tuning (haven't done my first one yet) but I am 47 years working on engines. I have spent 4 hours reading this thread while cross referencing information. It appears to me there is a major hole in the strategies attempted so far and I would submit it is why the KAM negates every change by 1-2 days in. The IAC/ISC works on the same principle of the idle screw on a carburetor. Far more sophisticated (hooked to a computer for control) but still not much difference. I learned tuning in the days of carburetors and once I learned I rarely used Throttle Position for final idle set. In the 60's the 1st thing dumped was the vacuum advance. I was taught by an 'Old Boy" who actually tuned race cars including the old methanol Indy cars. We didn't have widebands back then we had noses. For idle, we got the car close to the "nose" (smell) with locked timing. Then we added/subtracted timing. 90% of the cars brought to us had no vacuum advance. The thought at the time was most performance cams had less than 10lbs vacuum so they went all static (distributor position) + spring/weight advance. The problem with this should be obvious to tuners. You can't +/- timing to control the idle. We built "custom" stock distributors which included adjustable vacuum advances. A motor idleing as low as 7lbs vacuum could still be adjusted timing wise at idle with the adjustable vacuum advance dashpot. Result was nasty cams with great idles. The PCM's in our cars use the IAC/ISC like the hammer and chisel on the wood sculpture to control idle. The razor knife is timing. The PCM can change timing by the next engine cycle while the IAC may take 10 cycles to catch up. Since the PCM's fine tuning approach to idle control is timing advance/retard if you have changed your idle timing from stock you have probably taken away the PCM'S ABILITY TO USE TIMING TO ADJUST FOR TRANSIENTS. I learned tuning using timing for fine tuning, just a thought.

[decipha]

very nice brad

also, when tuning idle i always use a vacuum gauge, that's the way most old school tuners tuned carbs and the same applies to any engine, play around with timing, rpm, and afr until you can squeeze out as much vacuum as possible

its not uncommon to pinch out 22-24" hg of vac just by fine tuning idle with a vac gauge

[EDS50]

I dont know of too many if any performance cams or aftermarket/custom cams that will allow you to achieve 22-24 in.hg. vac. under 1000rpm idle. I have hell to get my small tfs cam to idle at17 in.hg. @900 rpm.

[roh92cp]

Well I'm back at it with tuning since the car has come out of storage. After the long winter and old gas in the lines and the EEC KAM reset she fired right up idled high for about 5 seconds and started to settle down nicely. The car ran great for the first day and a half started idle perfect, all the transitions worked well. No stalling or hunting or dipping past the target rpm. Adaptive is back in control and has started causing problems again. The first thing I noticed was the rpm would shoot up at declutch. Now all my other problems started coming back like random stalling, stalling after startup, hard starts. I'm gonna try running with adaptive out of the picture. I set Adaptive fuel control max to 20 and min to 10, but now I'm wondering if I should just disable adaptive all together with Z_ADPSW and take all the adaptive controls out of th picture.

[EDS50]

Well I'm back at it with tuning since the car has come out of storage. After the long winter and old gas in the lines and the EEC KAM reset she fired right up idled high for about 5 seconds and started to settle down nicely. The car ran great for the first day and a half started idle perfect, all the transitions worked well. No stalling or hunting or dipping past the target rpm. Adaptive is back in control and has started causing problems again. The first thing I noticed was the rpm would shoot up at declutch. Now all my other problems started coming back like random stalling, stalling after startup, hard starts. I'm gonna try running with adaptive out of the picture. I set Adaptive fuel control max to 20 and min to 10, but now I'm wondering if I should just disable adaptive all together with Z_ADPSW and take all the adaptive controls out of th picture.

Disabling adaptive learning completely from my tune has been one of the best decisions I made. I feel that it just gets in the way and learns around tuning changes.

[roh92cp]

Well I'm back at it with tuning since the car has come out of storage. After the long winter and old gas in the lines and the EEC KAM reset she fired right up idled high for about 5 seconds and started to settle down nicely. The car ran great for the first day and a half started idle perfect, all the transitions worked well. No stalling or hunting or dipping past the target rpm. Adaptive is back in control and has started causing problems again. The first thing I noticed was the rpm would shoot up at declutch. Now all my other problems started coming back like random stalling, stalling after startup, hard starts. I'm gonna try running with adaptive out of the picture. I set Adaptive fuel control max to 20 and min to 10, but now I'm wondering if I should just disable adaptive all together with Z_ADPSW and take all the adaptive controls out of th picture.

Disabling adaptive learning completely from my tune has been one of the best decisions I made. I feel that it just gets in the way and learns around tuning changes.

How long have you been running with adaptive disabled, did it cure your stalling and idle issues.

[qikgts]

For what it's worth, on the CBAZA track car in my sig, it made all the difference in the world. It stopped all the stalling and surging. I'll never go back to adaptive (and closed loop) on that car...

[EDS50]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

[roh92cp]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

So are you saying this cured your problems.

[EDS50]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

So are you saying this cured your problems.

That along with alot of trial and error idle settings in the tune.

[roh92cp]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

So are you saying this cured your problems.

That along with alot of trial and error idle settings in the tune.

Man I'm really glad to here that. What method did you use to disable adaptive?.

[EDS50]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

So are you saying this cured your problems.

That along with alot of trial and error idle settings in the tune.

Man I'm really glad to here that. What method did you use to disable adaptive?.

Z_ADPSW after clearing the KAMRF's

[roh92cp]

I have had adaptive disabled for a couple of months now. Raising my base idle also helped out alot.

So are you saying this cured your problems.

That along with alot of trial and error idle settings in the tune.

Man I'm really glad to here that. What method did you use to disable adaptive?.

Z_ADPSW after clearing the KAMRF's

Great thats what I did as well disconnected the battery for 15 min then disabled Z_ADPSW

[roh92cp]

My fingers are still crossed and I'm allways expecting the idle to dip then stumble and stall, but I think I've got it beat this time. I have had success now for 5 days and my tune has not relearned the changes I made. No more stalling on startups, not more stalling when Idle drops too fast on declutch, no more stalling when idle would overshoot set point then rev up and stall. I really can't believe I got it right after chasing my tail with this issue for almost a year. I'll wait another couple of days and then post the changes I made.

[EDS50]

My fingers are still crossed and I'm allways expecting the idle to dip then stumble and stall, but I think I've got it beat this time. I have had success now for 5 days and my tune has not relearned the changes I made. No more stalling on startups, not more stalling when Idle drops too fast on declutch, no more stalling when idle would overshoot set point then rev up and stall. I really can't believe I got right after chasing my tail with this issue for almost a year. I'll wait another couple of days and then post the changes I made.

Good to hear. I am eagerly waiting to hear what you did to fix your issues. I will keep my fingers corssed for you in anticipation of more good news.

[roh92cp]

Uhhhhh.....My journey continues as yesterday I had my first randon stalling event pulling into work and my heart sank. I had the wheel locked turning in a tight circle and when I pushed in the clutch the tach fell hard and low stumbled then stalled. It also happend later that day taking again a tight turn and when I pushed in the clutch it just dropped fast and stalled right in the turn. It seems the power steering pump load plays a role as well as declutch in the stalling event. Man I'm pissed at this plaging problem that seems to creep back in after 3 days to a week of driving after KAM reset. I have adaptive fuel turned off, but its obvious that adaptive plays a role in the idle control valve area. Any ideas on how to turn off adaptive in the idle/IAC area.

[roh92cp]

I can repeat the stall condition evertime now. From a stop with the wheel tuned all the way and blip the throttle and at the moment the tach decays to @1000-1200rpm I hold the wheel to full lock, the drag from the power steering will drop the rpm past the set point and stall the motor. The log shows the ISC is stable at 61% when this happens. So now I'm fairly sure power steering drag is the cause of most of my problems here. I have tried to add rpm at the idle rpm adder for power steering and I've enabled the power steering pressure switch present, but I'm not sure the 92 mustang has an electronic pressure switch on the steering rack.

[roh92cp]

Idle rpm adder for power steering does add rpm, however it adds it weather or not the power steering pump is loaded. So its like a global adder. With out the switch in the pump or rack it just adds it all the time, not what I was loking for.

[mike8675309]

Idle air control should be able to handle that, even with load coming up. Perhaps you are at your limits for idle air duty cycle already do to physical throttle stop adjustment? I am not familiar enough to know what to look for, but I'm sure it's stuff that could be logged.