Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

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Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:33 pm

I pick up the ecu from a local guy tomorrow.
I started looking at wiring diagrams today, and will start on moving/deleting junk from the harness this weekend.

Here are the pins from the 94-95 Mustang harness that I WON'T be using.
Pin - Description
11 - CANP - Evap Can Purge
12 - Injector 6
13 - Injector 7
14 - Injector 8
15 - Injector 5
27 - EGR
31 - AIR Bypass
33 - EVR/EGR
34 - AIR Diverter
38 - ECPO (AODE)
41 - TCS (AODE)
42 - ACPS (A/C)
43 - LEFT O2 SENSOR
49 - OTS (AODE)
51 - SS1 (AODE)
52 - SS2 (AODE)
53 - TCC (AODE)
54 - WAC (A/C)

My questions
1. Which O2 sensor will be controlling Bank 1, as I will be using only injectors 1-4? Right?
2. Is the TCC an AODE thing?
3. Is there a Baro psi sensor?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get going on this... lol
But this will probably take a while as I have to piece together a harness.

Is there anything I missed so far?

jason
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:53 pm

be mindful that when you change the numcyl scalar some of those pins may move

hego1 is for bank1 pin44, you have your thoughts correct, pin43 won't be needed

pin53 may be upshift output when changed to 4cyl, could be useful if you desire

pin13 may become your new low speed fan output
pin14 may become your new high speed fan output

heres the full cbaza pin out, be mindful of the moving pins
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17040

cbaza ecu does inferred bap

tcc is the torque converter clutch solenoid, which unless you have an electronic controlled trans, it won't be used
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby POPSRACING » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:55 pm

This is a good swap, quite a bit better control over the engine.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:16 pm

I was hoping to get SEFI and injector timing capability, as well as fan control...
This seems like the best fit...

Decipha,
How would I know if the pins moved?
I'm hoping there is some documentation out there rather than resorting to trial and error... Bench test maybe???
I'll ponder a little more while I work the wire harness...
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:24 pm

One more question as I make slow progress...

Pin 5 - TSS
The diagram I have isn't clear how/if this is used with a manual trans...???
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:07 pm

pin5 is OSS, output shaft sensor, only used on an automatic transmission

scroll up to my first post in this thread and you'll see i posted a link to the full cbaza ecu pin out, i made note of which pins moved where when the numcyl switch was changed from 8 to 6, i have a few supercoupes OEM v6 supercharged 5spd's, 2 of which now have cbaza ecu's running them, my daily 92 5spd and my 91 with a 4r70w swap, ecu controlled
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby mpaton » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:43 pm

decipha wrote:pin5 is OSS, output shaft sensor, only used on an automatic transmission

Mostly right. The ECU needs an output speed sensor VSS even with a manual, to get Speed.

TSS is Turbine Speed Sensor, output from the 4R70W.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:21 pm

Do 37 and 57 need to be tied together external of the ecu?

I'd like to clean up some of the harness...


I've finished the injector harness and vRef harness, just have a few more things to sort out...
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:38 pm

mpaton wrote:
decipha wrote:pin5 is OSS, output shaft sensor, only used on an automatic transmission

Mostly right. The ECU needs an output speed sensor VSS even with a manual, to get Speed.

TSS is Turbine Speed Sensor, output from the 4R70W.



x2 the oss isn't used on the manual, the vss amp is pin3 and return is pin6 those are the two that go to the vss on the output shaft regardless of auto or manual

vristang wrote:Do 37 and 57 need to be tied together external of the ecu?

I'd like to clean up some of the harness...


I've finished the injector harness and vRef harness, just have a few more things to sort out...



x2 those can be tied together externally, just wire them together and to the ecu relay
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:24 pm

decipha wrote:
mpaton wrote:
decipha wrote:
vristang wrote:Do 37 and 57 need to be tied together external of the ecu?

I'd like to clean up some of the harness...


I've finished the injector harness and vRef harness, just have a few more things to sort out...



x2 those can be tied together externally, just wire them together and to the ecu relay

But do they need to be?

My thinking is to reduce the possibility for signal noise.
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:07 pm

well considering they both run to the same place you might as well just tie them in together closer to the ecu and run it to the relay, i don't think 'noise' is going to be much of an issue since your reworking the whole harness, just keep it short clean and neat and all is well
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:50 am

decipha,
I seem to have most of the wiring sorted out... finally...

Now, I'm going over the parameters you said you changed for the v6... but I'm not seeing most of them...
Could you post or pm me the .bin that you used?
Or just define the PID's for the parameters you changed?
The .bin would probably be easier for you?

Thanks,
jason
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:13 pm

I've been poking around and it's starting to look like the PIP parameters that I need access to, aren't exposed in the generic CBAZA.xls file that comes with BE.

I need to buy sailorbobs...
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:05 pm

So here is where I am at...

The standard Strategy that loads with BE doesn't have all of the parameters I need access to for this conversion.
I think I have 3 options...

1. Buy a license for the CRY Strategy file
2. Buy a license for the Strategy from popsracing
3. Switch over to GUFB and re-pin my harness as needed. I have an X3Z that was intended for my 408w...


I will look at the pinout differences tonight.
I still need to get a price from popsracing for their Strategy and confirm that it has all the PIP parameters exposed... It looks like the CRY Strategy will work, but I want to double check that...


Any other thoughts are welcome.
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:22 am

slow progress, but progress none the less...

I will stick with the T4M0.
I'm using the strategy from sailorbob, at least for now...

Using deciphas post as a guide viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17062,
I have gone through the Calibration and made the following changes...

DEGPIP - 4 cyl
IGN_TYPE - TFI
SPKSWL - 1307
SPKSWH - 1307 (does it matter what they are, as long as they are the same?)
HP_CID - NO (I didn't change this)
VMAFPIPLMT - 50 (I wasn't sure what to put here?)
NUMCYL - 4cyl
PACSLO - 5 (I wasn't sure what to put here?)
ENGCYL - 4cyl
SIGKLU - 4 or 6 cyl
SIGKLL - 4 or 6 cyl
AIR_MAN_VOL - 4 (wasn't sure what to put here?)
MHPFD - 4cyl
THRMHP - NO (I have removed all emissions)
PFEHP - NO (I have removed all emissions)
NUMHEGO - One
AIR_DOWN_CAL - DownEdge
SARCHG - 140

Injector Firing Order & Injector Output Port are not accessible.
The strategy says they are blocked by NUMCYL.
Is it safe to assume these are properly configured as soon as I made the NUMCYL change?

I will be using a set of 4-hole injectors from an Explorer, and a stock 94-95 Mustang MAF meter.
I have not changed any other injector settings, nor the MAF Transfer.

Those are all of the changes I have made to the tune at this point.
Any feedback is welcome.
Last edited by vristang on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:24 am

I had a stray wire left to figure out, but I think I could try starting this thing over the weekend :bananadance:
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87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:04 am

Cool sounds like your on your way, youll b getting an updated cbaza def shortly
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:21 pm

I realized I hadn't changed the CID either...
Dropped Derek another note, and I'm sure he'll get back to me as soon as he can.


EDIT:
Derek got back to me, and I've corrected the CID.
SARCHG - 140
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87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:17 am

Gonna fix a fuel leak after some house work, then try loading this tune...
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:35 pm

DEGPIP - 4 cyl
IGN_TYPE - TFI
SPKSWL - 1307
SPKSWH - 1307 (1. does it matter what they are, as long as they are the same?)
HP_CID - NO (I didn't change this)
VMAFPIPLMT - 50 (2. I wasn't sure what to put here?)
NUMCYL - 4cyl
PACSLO - 5 (3. I wasn't sure what to put here?)
ENGCYL - 4cyl
SIGKLU - 4 or 6 cyl
SIGKLL - 4 or 6 cyl
AIR_MAN_VOL - 4 (4. wasn't sure what to put here?)
MHPFD - 4cyl
THRMHP - NO (I have removed all emissions)
PFEHP - NO (I have removed all emissions)
NUMHEGO - One
AIR_DOWN_CAL - DownEdge
SARCHG - 140

Injector Firing Order & Injector Output Port are not accessible.

So I put in a couple of questions on the above...

Fixed the fuel leak, and now it cranks but won't start. No spark, confirmed with a timing gun while cranking.
Any suggestions on where to start looking?

Thanks,
jason
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:17 pm

well u have other issues because the computer is completely independent of the ignition, ecu only tells the tfi how much timing it wants, so if the tfi isn't getting powered you have an wiring problem for the distributor
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:30 pm

I may be onto something with the lack of spark... gonna try some things now...


In CBAZA, is there a way to disable the Canister Purge functionality?
I'm getting KOEO 565 still.
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:41 am

you can set the voltage to 0
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:31 am

Well, it ran... not great, but it ran for about 30 min at idle yesterday.

Had to fix a few more things, and have a couple more to look at.
O2 sensor isn't behaving as expected, found and fixed the issue with the ACT, my battery needs to be replaced, and some of the roughness may have been from the remnants of 2yr old fuel that was in the tank.

Today I'll try to get code 565 to turn off, and maybe get a good datalog with the ACT fixed.
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:43 am

cool, making progress me likes :)
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:05 am

The ACT is fixed.
The O2 appears to be functioning properly; bouncing around from .2v to .8v, and in between.

I may not be running it long enough, but it isn't switching to CL...
Spark isn't jumping around at idle the way I would expect.
- Any suggestions on things to check?

It occurred to my on the drive to work, that I may need to go over the Load Scaling?

What is the PID name for the parameter that will eliminate code 565?
I didn't see a parameter for 'Error 565' in the definition. Figured I'd ask before taking shots in the dark...

I can post the most recent datalog and .beb when I get home tonight.

Still need a new battery, and it looks like a power steering pump... but it is slowly getting closer to being road worthy.
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:10 pm

occdt5 is the scalar to disable the canister purge code, try setting it to 0 if that doesn't clear the code try 5.1
^^post back with your findings on that as well


idle spark is calculated by the mbt table fn2300 and is subtracted from the torque function fn799 based on the feedback spark torque reserve scalar spk_load_res not to exceed the torque ratio max scalar tr_delta after the entry time constant scalar fbs_entry_tc is met, the rate of change is based off the feedback spark gain scalar spk_fbs_gain and is clipped by the min feedback spark scalar spk_fbs_min

make sure your idlrpm scalar is set right and that the idle flag is set

the vmafpiplimit is only for the self tests, if you can't run self test then you need to up this value, i would leave it at 40+

air_man_vol is a global fuel multiplier on transient fuel, a lot of people use this to adjust transient fuel, be mindful that changing this value will also change your fueling elsewhere so be mindful
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:17 pm

oh yeah also about inferred load, the ecu calculates inferred load "pct_load" in the background and compares it to actual, if its too far off it'll actually throw a code for it, you can remedy that by dialing in your inferred load table fn1036a, you can also 0 out the throttle body table fn1037 to make dialing it in much easier, for the time being it would be ideal to set the arcwotcor scalar to 2 and the arcantcor scalar to 1.9 so you don't clip pct_load

the perload scalar prldsw has 3 values

0 - load is divided by the max load vs sealevel function fn035 and is roughtly multiplied by ~.96 from inferred bap and act
1 - load=perload
2 - perload comes from the fn1036a table, its strictly alpha n-tps based, no maf input

i would recommend setting that to 1 so what you see is what you get, no funky math to find where your perload is at
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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby vristang » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:12 pm

I set occdt5 = 0, and no more code 565 :bananadance:
That was the last of my codes...


I returned air_man_vol = 2
had it at 1, but that seems a little low :dunno:

I set prlsdw to load

I set vmafpiplimit = 40

decipha wrote:idle spark is calculated by the mbt table fn2300 and is subtracted from the torque function fn799 based on the feedback spark torque reserve scalar spk_load_res not to exceed the torque ratio max scalar tr_delta after the entry time constant scalar fbs_entry_tc is met, the rate of change is based off the feedback spark gain scalar spk_fbs_gain and is clipped by the min feedback spark scalar spk_fbs_min

huh?
I'll have to look this over a couple times :crazy:


decipha wrote:make sure your idlrpm scalar is set right and that the idle flag is set

Can you elaborate?
idlrpm sets the idle speed? or is it a flag, letting the ecu know what rpm to recognize as idle?



Ran the car a little more today after making the above changes, and it is running pretty smooth.
Need to change out the p/s pump tonight, then maybe a test drive is in order for tomorrow?

decipha,
thanks for the help
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
http://www.SeattleBlueOvals.com - My Local Site

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Re: Controlling a 2.3 n/a with a T4M0

Postby decipha » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:49 am

vristang wrote:I set occdt5 = 0, and no more code 565 :bananadance:
That was the last of my codes...

i thought so i've always used a value of 0 but never checked codes after the fact, never had anyone tell me so i just continued to do it, i have seen in quite a few sct tunes where folks have maxed this value out at 5.1


I returned air_man_vol = 2
had it at 1, but that seems a little low :dunno:

i would set it to 4 and dial in your transient fuel from there

I set prlsdw to load

I set vmafpiplimit = 40

decipha wrote:idle spark is calculated by the mbt table fn2300 and is subtracted from the torque function fn799 based on the feedback spark torque reserve scalar spk_load_res not to exceed the torque ratio max scalar tr_delta after the entry time constant scalar fbs_entry_tc is met, the rate of change is based off the feedback spark gain scalar spk_fbs_gain and is clipped by the min feedback spark scalar spk_fbs_min

huh?
I'll have to look this over a couple times :crazy:

idle spark is also known as feedback spark, the mbt spark table calculates mbt spark for your load/rpm at idle and the spark it calculates is then subtracted by the mbt torque function, the amount its subtracted is based on the feedback spark torque reserve scalar, the amount of spark that is then calculated is clipped by the torque ratio max scalar and the spark feedback min spark scalar, you won't get into the idle feedback spark control until after the amount of time set by the entry time constant scalar, now this 'reserve' that the computer calculates at idle is used to stabilize idle by either adding or subtracting spark, the rate or 'gain' of this change is set by the spk fbs gain scalar

what i would recommend is setting the lower portion of the mbt spark table to 46 or where ever you think your engine is making peak torque spark wise, leave the mbt retard function alone, set the torque reserve to 2.3 and the delta to 2, maybe bring the entry constant to 4 seconds, and drop the gain to .5 so your spark only changes .5 degrees per loop, you could even set the min clip scalar to 18 or so if desired

the tr_delta scalar is also a multiplier clip on mbt spark, if the spark calculated is higher than mbt then there are instances where spark will be clipped to mbt and this scalar, setting this to 2 would null any of those occurances



decipha wrote:make sure your idlrpm scalar is set right and that the idle flag is set

Can you elaborate?
idlrpm sets the idle speed? or is it a flag, letting the ecu know what rpm to recognize as idle?


nubase and drbase set the dsdrpm idle speed, the idlrpm flag and its hysteresis idlrpmh set the rpm at which the idle flag is set, just as you stated in the later part
Ran the car a little more today after making the above changes, and it is running pretty smooth.
Need to change out the p/s pump tonight, then maybe a test drive is in order for tomorrow?

decipha,
thanks for the help




no prob thats why im here, to learn and share
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decipha
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