Was the cam degreed when installed. It is sounding more like a hardware issue than software. If I were you I'd stop looking ay the internet for maf specs and call the maker of your maf and get a calibration sheet or send it back in to be recalibrated. It is such a vital piece to the entire equation.

_________________
Matt
90 GT, 347, 8.5:1 comp, Vortech S-trim (11psi), Edelbrock 6037 heads, Super Victor 8.2 EFI Ported, 80MM Pmas, 60lb EV14 Bosch Gen 4 Injectors, KB BAP, B31 Cam. Tweecer RT, A9L. Software: EA/BE. 550rwhp & 513rwtq.
2004 Marauder light mods
2003 Sonic Blue 03' Cobra 497rwhp 481tq

That's the thing I put in the transfer function for my maf and did not touch it after that. I then started tuning the injectors by using EA and finding the values that landed in the middle of the injector plots. I brought the lambdas down to 1 or below just fine. This also kept my load down around 15 during idle. But before I put in 62 for the injectors and just tuned the maf. This increased the load to around 25 and 30 during idle. So which is the beat practice? Leaving the maf as is and tuning injectors? Or leaving injectors at 62 and tuning the maf? Right now I left the maf as is from the calibration and tuned my injectors which brought them down to 56 for both high and low.

The cam was not degreed because it was a package deal the was cut specifically for my heads and valvetrain. So far the company is being elusive so I am trying to get a work around. I am still trying to get them to send me the calibration sheet.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Either method will work (injectors or MAF) but as a general rule, you don't want to go changing both when you are first starting to dial in your fuel. After you get it close, you can then make small changes to either or both but not in the beginning. You should have degreed your cam. All cams need to be degreed in order to make sure you have the correct valve events. I don't think the degreeing is the issue though. The cam having the overlap that you have could cause some exhaust to be getting back into the intake but from my experience, it isn't enough to drastically change the ACT temps.

_________________
86 GT, 347 stroker 10.5:1 compression, A9L, 30lb. injectors, ProM 80mm, Ported Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads (190s), TFS "R" intake, FTI custom cam, 1 3/4 BBK LTs, 3" X-pipe, 3" Boral XS mufflers, 4:10 rear, Moates QH V1.6 (BE/EA), Dynojet Wideband Commander II

I dont think its the degreeing of the cam that is the issue right now. Keep in mind Idle lambdas usually show lean when in fact they are actually rich because of the overlap of the cam creating reversion. My street car idles at 1.10 lambda but I know its actually just about dead on near stoich because my nose knows how she smells when she is near or at stoich. You sometimes have to look away from the gauges and go by feel when it comes to idle. At this point I would force open loop, disable adaptives and clear the kamrfs. It is very important to always clear the kamrfs so the learned fuel trims arent being applied. If you have been trying to tune with adaptives enabled you will just continually chase your tail trying to tune around learned fuel trims.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Ya the adaptive is turned off and the ol is forced. After the fuel is tuned and the lambdas stay around 1 for the most part besides wot and idle. Should I work on timing next? Injector timing?

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

+1

_________________
1993 Reef Blue Coupe
Thumper Ported E7's
Cobra Intake & 65mm TB
Crane 2031 w/1.7's
30lb Injectors (Slim Line - BB302)
LMAF (02 Lightening Curve) Leaned out 5%
190 lph fuel pump
Kirban Fuel Regulator
A3M computer
EGR only, no Smog
10 degrees base timing
39 PSI fuel pressure no vacuum/32PSI with vacuum (at idle)
BBK 1 5/8 shorty headers
T5 Tranny 3:55 rear
Innovate MTX-L Wideband & QH/BE

Well that is good news about it not being the cam. That would be a pain. Temps are still warm but cool off slightly at higher revs which sounds like it is doing what is supposed to..although slightly warmer than I want. Tuning the fuel injectors is coming along nicely. Almost got the car running right where it needs to be AFR wise, just by tuning the injectors and not touching the maf transfer. Which is nice because my loads are staying around 15 at idle.

I do have a question about starting the car though. When the car is cold it starts up fine no problem. But when it has been running for a bit, it is very hard to restart it. Before, the OEM starter was having difficulties and wouldn't put out enough torque to start it. So I replaced it with a high torque starter. That fixed the problem with it not cranking the car. However, it does not want to fire when it is hot. Does this have something to with the timing? Or maybe my ignition setup is not producing enough spark? I'm a little hazy when it comes to the ignition system and what to do for starting the car when it is hot. Any ideas? Thanks a ton.

Josh

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

you need to reduce the msec for fn348. 19/62=0.30645 Multiply your stock 19# default msec values by 0.30645 and that should help you out.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

I got it to work thank you. I had to divide that function by that number instead of multiply. I tried multiplying and it wouldn't even start cold. But when I divided it starts up perfectly even when super hot so thank you for helping with that. One less thing to fix lol.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Glad it helped. But I am confused as you should have multiplied not divided. Multiplying would decrease the msec value and dividing would increase it.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Correct that is what happened. But it seemed like it was not getting enough fuel when I multiplied.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Hmm, multiplying indeed reduces the fuel which is what you normally want to do with a larger injector. Having to have raised it leads me to believe your start up open loop table is off and needs to be looked at. All your fueling is probably gonna be off because of the meter you have.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Okay that makes sense. I will give that a look in the morning and post what it says.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

cool

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Took the car for a test drive today. So much better than before. Noticed slight bucking but nothing near as bad as before. Temps are still hot around 200 ish for ACTs and 190 to 200 for ECT. AFR was good until 2.2v so I need to dial that in. But all in all it made me feel better about the car lol. Now to just make things better. Would tuning the injector timing be a good step next? Seriously thank you to you guys for helping me get it dialed in better.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

leave the injector timing to the stock a9l settings for now. dial in your maf and your fuel.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Okay cool sounds like a plan. At what point do I touch injector timing and spark timing?

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

once the fuel and air are dialed in.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Easy enough. Thanks again.

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Just an update and hopefully some help.

I'll give you guys what I did to the tune and then the problems so we can figure this out.

What I did:
1. Fuel and MAF dialed in - lamdas stay where I want them through most of the drive.
2. Adjusted injector timing to better match my cam.
3. Got idle working well

Now here are the problems:
1. The car drives fine for the first part of a drive. Then all of a suden it starts to buck slightly then horribly where it is really difficult to even make it home. When this happens load values shoot up into the 50-60s when they are normally around 20-30 when the car is running fine.

2. On my last test drive I drove for a about 2miles. On the way back it started bucking super bad and I heard a poppping sound from the engine and the lambdas shot up insanly high and stayed there the rest of the trip. I got home popped the hood and couldn't see any external problems. I let the car cool for awhile and started it back up and she is acting like nothing ever happend. The lambdas are fine again and she is runnig like normal.

Any ideas? Thanks for the help guys.

v/r

Josh

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Clear the kamrfs and report back.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Alright cleared what you said as well as ran a better ground because a buddy said that could be it as well. It wasn't. Here is my most recent datalog as well as my current tune. You can see where it starts bucking in the datalog, it is where the loads go up higher than normal. Thanks again for your guys help I seriously would be confused without it.

v/r

Josh

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Here is a little more info that might help.

When I first drive for about a half mile to a mile the car is fine. Lambdas are fine, around the commanded values. Temps are normal as well.

About the same point every time the car starts to buck. I give it throttle and hear air being sucked in but no go. Then all of a sudden it goes and pulls hard. It does the cycle until I push in the clutch and then the car starts to stall then goes into a low idle. I have to rev it a lot to get it to move with it bucking the whole time. It is a little frustrating to say the least. Any ideas?

Josh

_________________
408 Cleveland, Shorty Headers,
T-5, 3V CHI Header/Intake Combo,
LC-1, BE 2012, EEC Analyzer
EEC-IV (A9L)
62 lb/hr Injectors
Cam: 242/248@.50 .600 Lift L/C 110
Pro-M 30# MAF

Its starting to sound like an intake gasket leak or vacuum leak of somesort. Other than that maybe a crankcase pressure issue. I would put a vacuum gauge on her and go for a spin and see what the gauge tells you. Is the pcv valve functioning properly? Not usre if you have one but figured I would throw it out there.

EDIT:

After going back and reading through the older replies, after you cleared the kamrfs did yoou re-enable adaptive learning and closed loop? If so I would go back and disable them clear the kamrfs and tune in o/l. Adaptives may be learning around your changes putting you back to square 1.

_________________
1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA