Okay noob here and just getting overwhelmed by all the information out there and also getting frustrated that this car still can't run well even with the tuner! I'm sure it's me, but looking for some expert direction please!

94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Started my tune out with just deleting EGR, Smog, setting injectors to 30# (high and low slope for now), and plugging in MAF curve from EA using the ABU2 01-02 Lightning. That's pretty much all I did just to get it started and going but can't even get that far! I tried the 02 Lightning MAF curve from EA which is what I have in there currently...didn't make much of a difference.

Did a 1 minute datalog on the idle while having to keep it around 1000 rpm manually in order to keep it from dying. Runs super rich which is did some before the tuner was installed (had an 80mm MAF supposedly cal'ed for 30# though not sure how good it was) but not as rich as it is running now. I have the WB wired through EGR and it seems to work okay (though I'm not able to get readout on the BE Dashboard to show me my real time AFR while Datalogging??). Car runs rough and idle just surges like crazy hitting below 500 and will die almost instantly if I don't keep throttle up, as you can see in the DL.

Weird thing though I'm not sure if this is related, or normal, I notice that my HEGO voltages are different between the driver's and passengers with just the key on. Around 1.2V for driver's and 0.04V for passenger's side. I tried swapping in other O2s but still stays that way. Is this normal?

Any help for the noob would be appreciated!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

i opened the log in EA and clicked on the top 'ect' column to organize it numerically, only got up to 114 ect, an engine needs to be warm in order to make fuel adjustments


at a quick glance your spark is all over the place, your hegos stayed lean and never looked like they warmed up, i would check for heater power to them

i don't know if i trust the afr, but in any case some tuning is needed, would probably be best if you started out by finding out whats up with the hegos

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Will do thanks. Yeah I really didn't want to get it too warm because it was so rich in couldn't stand the smell! Didn't want to clog up my new wideband too!

Anyway, is it normal for the O2s to have different voltages like that with key on engine off?

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

yeah thats fine, the hegos are going to report lean < .4 when they are cold or the engines lean, once they warm up they should switch back and forth above and below .4v in closed loop

if the o2s are old or have a bunch of mileage on them your best bet would be to replace them now, its vital the o2s are in proper working condition in order to get your tune dialed in

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Well that's the thing, the driver's side is reporting 1.28V at key on, but when running they seem to be normal, though one is slightly higher than the other (as you can see in the DL). Even tried plugging in a spare I have (though they are all pretty old, actually may be original!)

I will check on my wiring and also look into getting new O2s. Any specific brand to get that is better? Is Motorcraft the way to go?

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

if your unsure of them replace them, .02-.04 is not ideal, if shes rich she should be over .4 volts, sure she wasn't lean? lean will burn your eyes

supposedly the ntk o2s last longer than the bosch, i get the ntks from amazon $28 each

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Well I ended up ordering new Motorcraft ones on Amazon yesterday (before I got your post...oh well!) $93 shipped for the pair.

I was messing around with the sensors I have (I have 4 different ones to choose from...all old though!) The 4 Ford ones I have, 2 of them didn't have any resistance across the heater element, so those are bad. I also made a new ground for the heater ground wire too (saw that in another thread) and also cleaned up the wiring and completely redid the sheathing and tested resistance in the entire O2 harness. Everything checked fine.

I put the two "good" ones in but I noticed when logging that one of them doesn't seem to be transmitting anything. Still running rich and idle surges like crazy. Hoping the new sensors I have on the way will fix this! Should have them tomorrow!

It's definitely running rich! I can see the smoke clouding out of my garage! Also, the O2s are jet black every time I pulled them out.

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

well if shes rich lean her out, its so easy to dial in idle, just adjust the fueling with a vac gauge

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Really... How do I do that exactly? Do you need a FPR because I don't have one! Thanks!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

How do you not have an FPR on a return-style era injection setup?

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Sorry I meant an adjustable one. Unless there is a way to adjust the stock one but I didn't think there was.

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

no adjustable not needed, I actually recommend against afpr, hook up a vac gauge force open loop and and use the open loop multiplier scalar to make her pull the most vac with the engine warm, take your lambse divide by stoich and multiply the mafv at idle by that, set the ol multiplier back to 1, then go read my idle air write up and dial in idle air

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

You make it sounds so easy! :-) Yeah I've heard it's no use using an AFPR I was just confused as to what you were saying...thanks for the clarification!

Okay so I'm at work right now but when I get home I'll throw on my new O2s and if it is still rich I'll do this procedure.

Questions: Do I change the OL multiplier while the engine is running at idle (or best I can get it to idle) and write the tune on the fly? What kind of vac reading should I be shooting for? I'll definitely check out your idle air write up too...thanks for your help decipha!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

One question about your idle air write-up (I'm sure I'll have more once I dive into it!)

How do you set your idle screw to start with? I've seen several methods for doing this (without a tuner) but I didn't see in your write up where you set the idle screw to begin with.

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Okay this is frustrating! I put in the new O2s and first start everything is looking good...both O2s are reading about the same and things are still super rich but at least now both O2s are reading rich (in the 0.9 range) which matches with the WB which is in the 10-11 range for AFR. Now I only ran it for a bit the first try as I wanted to check that out...ate my dinner then hooked up the vac gauge and restarted and now I'm getting 0.1-0.2 range on HEGO 1 while HEGO 2 (which is on same side as WB) I'm still in the 0.9 range for some time...then towards the end of the DL I see HEGO 2 starts dropping in voltage to 0.6-0.7 then quickly goes down to 0.1 range with HEGO 1 (and of course WB starts showing super lean up in the 20's so I shut it off in fear of messing something up. I know I'm running low on gas but it still starts fine so I don't think I'm out yet! Still cannot get it to idle even on the first start when everything was running rich...surges like a mo-fo!

Vac gauge reads about 10-15 but with the surge it's hard to tell and stabilize.

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Here's the DLs...first one is at initial startup, second one is after dinner....

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

you can't adjust fuel until the engines hot, you can lean it out as much as you want at idle and it won't hurt the engine, get the engine hot then dial the fuel in, your o2s sound like there working perfectly so you might as well let the o2s get your fuel dialed in

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Okay disregard my previous two posts...I was out of gas!

Anyway, I did get her warmed up now and O2s looks to be working right and both are reading high 0.9 range as well as WB reading super rich as mentioned. I forced OL, hooked up vac gauge and had to hold idle around 1k to keep her running. I increased the OL Multiplier slowly from 1.1 up to 2.0 and it doesn't seem to change my vac at all nor does my O2 readings get any leaner. I do see that the LAMBSEs go up with the multiplier so it's doing that thing right. What next you think??

PS. I thought these LMAFs were supposed to be dialed in pretty close from factory...why is this being so difficult or do you think I have a mechanical issue going on here? Not sure where to go next...about to bang head on wall!!!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

its not difficult its called tuning for a reason, if 2 isn't enough then keep going with it, you do realize

14.64*2=29.28 if shes still rich at 29 then you have a problem

go adjust the maf transfer

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Once I go over 2 LAMBSE pegs at 28ish so I didn't think it was changing anything going any higher.

EDIT: NM I figured it out using the HELP in EA!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Alright guys I'm really starting to wonder if I have a mechanical issue now. I am still running super rich no matter how lean I make the MAF curve! It seemed to get a little better once I leaned it 20% but didn't seem to change anything as I kept incrementing it up 10% all the way to 80%! (My base was the ABU2 01-02 Lightning MAF). I think I just ran out of gas again as HEGO 1 started to lean out which is what it did before, so I'll have to go fill up my gas can now before proceeding, but I'm at a loss here...not really sure what is going on. Do you think I am having a spark issue? Maybe my distributor is shot?? Please help!

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

I am going to throw my .02 in here. First of all I feel you should not be dialing in your fuel with adaptive learning enabled. I would also force open loop. I dont see it anywhere mentioned that anytime you make a fuel or maf changes in the tune that you HAVE to clear the kamrfs. You are just pissing up a wet rope right now because you are trying to adjust air and fuel around adaptive learning and learned fuel trims. What I would recommend is that you start fresh. Disable adaptive learning, force open loop and clear the kamrfs. Forget about closed loop and the hegos and all that crap for now. Enter the lightning maf curve for the 02' lightning found in EA and dont touch it. Enter your injector slopes, breakpoint and offset. I personally set all my fuel multipliers to 1.0 and leave those for last once everythhing is dialed in. I dont know much about your AFR guage so you have to determine whether thats right or not. If your kamrfs are cleared properly and your forced o/l and adaptives are disabled your lambses and kamrf values will be locked at 1.00. I would also recommend you do a base idle reset on your car if you havent done so because you will need to dial in your idle air as well. Start with that and work from there. Keep the initial tuning process as simple as can be and listen to what the car is telling you and give her what she is asking for. Decipha is gonna be a valuable asset to you since he is far superior to tuning cbaza than I am so make sure you keep his thirst for beer quenched.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Cool thanks for the info... Some questions though:

1. How do you disable adaptive learning? I thought the car wouldn't do adaptive learning until going into closed loop anyway so if I am forcing OL I shouldn't have to worry about it, right?

2. Clearing KAMRFS just means disconnecting battery for 5 minutes, right? Or is there an easier way to do that through BE?

3. What do you mean by setting a base idle? Do you mean following Decipha idle post, because I can't even get her to run good enough for me to set idle yet! I had to crank down my idle screw just to get her to stay running without me pushing throttle!

FYI one thing that was weird I forgot to mention is that I have this loud whining noise coming from the intake Manifold now that I set the idle screw High enough for her to stay running. I thought it was from air filter at first but it actually sounds like it's inside the upper intake Manifold. Any thoughts on what that means?

EDIT: I'm thinking the whine is the typical BBK TB whine. I'll do the Mod I found that is supposed to fix this....

now, back to my tuning...???

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Okay I think I've figured out why it is running so rich...finally! I was looking through my tune and comparing the fuel settings to stock, and realized for some reason (I probably did this mistakenly) the injector pulse width was (going by memory here) something like .0088 and stock is .0014! I set it back to .0014 and now it is running much closer to what it should be at idle!! I set both slopes to 30 too FYI...Ha what an easy fix....

Related question: Injector Offset is the same thing as pulse width, right?

Anyway, now my idle is still surging pretty bad....I did clear KAMRFS and force open loop at first. I let her warm up and still finding out that if I let off the gas at all she'll die right away so this was making it impossible to set idle air per Decipha's method. Also was hard to hot restart (like it was before a tune) forcing me to floor the gas to get it start.

My TPS voltage at throttle closed is 0.98 so I don't really want to adjust the screw any more, do I? Once warm, the surge tamed a little but was still there and I actually drove around in my neighborhood last night....slowly....and enabled learning and CL to see if she'd settle down at all. Seemed to idle okay when I came to a stop and didn't die, but driving around she was running lean and getting backfiring etc and I noticed my LAMBSEs were up in the 17 range...also I saw my ECT was just over 200 so maybe she's commanding lean because of running hot? I'm not sure that temp is right because my mechanical Autometer temp gauge was still below 180 at that time...though it is mechanical I didn't think it would lag THAT much. I datalogged the drive and will review it later today....didn't have time last night.

BTW, ED, I don't think CBAZA has Z_ADPSW scalar, so upon my searching I found Decipha's post about how to disable adaptive learning on CBAZA here (3rd post): http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15060&hilit=disable+adaptive+learning+CBAZA

Also, I looked for vacuum leaks on my manifold and cannot find any. I did grind out my IAC ports in the TB which is a trick I read about to fix the BBK noise, and it seems to have helped a lot but noise is still there a little....oh well....hopefully it is not affecting performance/driveability....

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Okay I reviewed the logs and will attach them here shortly. Today I set the base idle to 700 and at first she'll surge like crazy, forcing me to hold throttle for a bit, then she settled down and actually tried to idle without my help but still a small surge. Now I let her warm up for some time, getting to running temp, and she starts surging again. I also noticed LAMBSES are maxing out at 17.6 still.... What would cause the ecu to demand such a high LAMBSE? Also I couldn't get her to run in CL at least I don't think she ever did, according to the little light in BE. But left bank KAMRFS did go just below 1.00 every now and then.... Weird... Any thoughts?

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Okay here are my logs from last night and tonight. Pretty much same behavior I believe.

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

PID: FN1315 Fuel - Injector Timing has 280 in the cells? Your injectors are firing in the middle of the exhaust stroke. If you are smelling gas this is why and it would explain your black O2s. I would also make that change if you need to pass emissions. The unburned fuel in your exhaust is going to seriously damage your catalytic converters.

As a fellow noob I would start over. Read the FAQs, again all of them. Buy the books in my sig and read those. Then get your methodology together. I already had a plan to my tune before I began, "recipe.". The books help with this. Section 2.6.3 Injector Timing is a must read. You really want to understand the theory. I did that and the process was pretty straight forward. I tuned my setup to 80-90% factory response in two weekends.

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1991 Mustang GT; 306; X302 heads; X303 cam; Professional Products 75MM throttle body; Pro-M Racing 75 MM MAM
; FRPP 24# M-9593-A302 Injectors; A3M1 GUFB; T5 WC

Library:
EEC Tutorial available from the forum
Engine Management Advanced Tuning ISBN:978-1-932494-42-6
Designing and Tuning High-Performance Fuel Injection Systems ISBN:978-1-932494-90-7

Thanks man... Some old fashioned education certainly would be good! I'll look for those books.

I didn't mess with the injector timing table from the stock setting, so I'm not sure what's going on there but I'll look into that. My pulsewidth on the other hand, was wrong which fixed the majority of my original issues!

I started a new thread because I have already learned a lot from FAQs and other threads that has helped me out. I've now just got to figure out my idle issues which is what my new thread is about. I

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94 Mustang GT, CBAZA, T4M0, 306ci, T-5z, E-cam, TF intake, Fox TB conversion, EGR delete, 90mm LMAF (new), 30# FMS injectors, LC-1 WB (new & calibrated), full exhaust...that's about it for tuning info.

Decipha, out of curiosity why do you recommend adjusting the o/l fuel multiplier (I'm assuming OLMCL) to pull the most vacuum? Does adding or removing fuel change vacuum? If you change the o/l multiplier, dial in the maf curve with the o/l mulitplier still altered, then change it back to 1, won't that completely mess up the fueling you just dialed in???

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1995 Cobra Crystal White
Mods: E-cam, BBK 70mm TB, BBK cai, MSD 6A, MSD distributor, AEM UEGO, 4.10 gears, L/T's, Flowmaster dumps, FLSFC, Eibach springs, FR500 wheels
Tuned with QH / BE12 / EA --- J4J1 / SB CBAZA def