Some good tips. In reading through this tho I noticed it instructs to remove the isc flow from the AM when building up fn875n, but i understood fn875n to correlate rpm to total AM. Why would you remove the isc flow for this function?

In looking closer, you use the total AM for the first entry to this function, but later advise removing isc flow when incrementing NUBASE up 500 rpm.

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87 Mustang GT - R331, GUFB, 80-lb inj, PMAS maf, T78 turbo, AOD, 3,200 stall, E85/93, LC-1, TwEECer RT, BE2009/EA
89 Mustang GT -Explorer 302, CBAZA, TFS1 cam, 2005+ slot MAF, 4r70w, 2,800 stall, LC-1

i see what your saying now, i originally edited as i made the post and didnt erase that line, guess thats what happens when your in a hurry and dont proof read, ill fix it tonight

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Please perform a Base Idle reset as outlined by Joel5.0-> LINK!!!

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Certified; ASE Parts Pro(P2), Oracle Database Engineer
1990 Mustang LX Sport 'Vert, 5.0L, GT-40 Intake, SVO X303 Heads, Trick Flow Stage1 Cam, 24lb Inj, 70mm SVO MAF, 70mm Holley TB, BBK Ceramic L/T's & O/R H-pipe, T-5 'Z' Code, 31-Spline Trac-Loc(Carbon clutch packs), Moser 31-Spline Axles
GUFB - X3Z, Innovate MTX-L, Moates QH v1.6, TunerPro RT v5(Because I refuse to pay for tuning software that costs twice as much as my PC's OS)

Oh duh, reason I came to this thread to begin with(rather than read through it). I have a question... Why is every Cell of the Injector Timing Table in your A9L2 set to 500? That's a bit late in the fill event.

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Certified; ASE Parts Pro(P2), Oracle Database Engineer
1990 Mustang LX Sport 'Vert, 5.0L, GT-40 Intake, SVO X303 Heads, Trick Flow Stage1 Cam, 24lb Inj, 70mm SVO MAF, 70mm Holley TB, BBK Ceramic L/T's & O/R H-pipe, T-5 'Z' Code, 31-Spline Trac-Loc(Carbon clutch packs), Moser 31-Spline Axles
GUFB - X3Z, Innovate MTX-L, Moates QH v1.6, TunerPro RT v5(Because I refuse to pay for tuning software that costs twice as much as my PC's OS)

I don't want to speak for him, but I suspect it is done that way to work for any vehicle. Firing early wastes a decent amount of fuel on big cam engines. But firing late on mild engines, while isn't optimal, doesn't waste as much. For milder engines, feel free to readjust. The A9L2 is not meant to be a one-size-fits-all tune. It just gets closer than the stock tunes to fitting more applications.

There are some things in the tune that I don't necessarily agree with like the HEGO function adjustments, that appear to remove the HEGO table effectiveness and lock-in 1 behavior...presumably so people tinkering with the HEGO Bias/Amplitude, don't actually do anything. While I do have modifications to my HEGO functions, I didn't set them up with the explicit intent of disabling the ability to make quick RPM/Load changes in the HEGO tables. He had his reasons for doing this. If you don't like that, you have the power to change it to whatever you want.

The A9L2 is just another starting point for you to choose from when starting a new tune.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

500 isn't where it starts spraying, it where its done spraying

by spraying the injector as late as possible you keep your valves cleaner, we have a few racers that go through their engines every season and they all say the same thing, valves look great

but the main reason is as cgrey8 stated, if you have a cam with any overlap then you have to fire the injector as late as possible to get rid of the fuel smell at idle

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

DOH!! I had totally forgot the Falling Edge switch. Man I have got to stop looking at Bin's when I'm half asleep. Thanks for replying guys.

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Certified; ASE Parts Pro(P2), Oracle Database Engineer
1990 Mustang LX Sport 'Vert, 5.0L, GT-40 Intake, SVO X303 Heads, Trick Flow Stage1 Cam, 24lb Inj, 70mm SVO MAF, 70mm Holley TB, BBK Ceramic L/T's & O/R H-pipe, T-5 'Z' Code, 31-Spline Trac-Loc(Carbon clutch packs), Moser 31-Spline Axles
GUFB - X3Z, Innovate MTX-L, Moates QH v1.6, TunerPro RT v5(Because I refuse to pay for tuning software that costs twice as much as my PC's OS)

That worked, thank you for your help.
Now we will install 48# injectors, will try to dial in fuel and then will work on air.

I'm sure, I will have more questions shortly

Decipha, wondering why there are different values (15,5,1) in the Adaptive Update table? Thought they should all be 3 or 5?? Thanks in advance...

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1987 LX 5.0 Automatic Vert; Vortech S-trim, TFS Stage 1 cam, GT40P heads, TFS valve springs, Cobra Intake, Pro-M MAF, 70mm TB, V255 lph fuel pump, 30# injectors, 1.6 RR, shorty headers, no cat H-pipe, 2.5" exhaust.
A9P with modified A9T/C3W1 bin, Quarterhorse with BE/EA, Zeitronix zt-2 WB

Probably has them higher at low rpms and low loads. Should help dial in fuel a little quicker. Higher the numbers higher the update rate is.

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89 Coupe- Canfield 195's, Holley Systemax II, CI cam, 24# Inj, 05 Slot MAF, 75mm TB
BBK 1 3/4 LT's, 3"Exhaust, 3"Spintech's, T-5 Trans, QH 1.4, AEM WB, BE/EA: A9L-GUFB

a higher number reduces the update rate, that number signifies how many switches is required at that range in order to update the kams

at idle you want accurate kams, in order to do so it can't update as often as it can at upper loads where the engine is much more stable

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Ok, makes sense, but will the 1' at High Load/RPM affect WOT trims?

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1987 LX 5.0 Automatic Vert; Vortech S-trim, TFS Stage 1 cam, GT40P heads, TFS valve springs, Cobra Intake, Pro-M MAF, 70mm TB, V255 lph fuel pump, 30# injectors, 1.6 RR, shorty headers, no cat H-pipe, 2.5" exhaust.
A9P with modified A9T/C3W1 bin, Quarterhorse with BE/EA, Zeitronix zt-2 WB

it allows correction sooner

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

We had the engine running fine with 24# injectors, but now we are installing 48# injectors and we will need to dial in fuel. Could you please give me an understanding where should we start and what values to work with?
We installed wide band o2 sensor that we can record data to the computer.
To be able to start I changed injectors slopes and offset vs voltage.

Deleted

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Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/joeembery#p/u
My Pics:
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...cpZZ1QQtppZZ16

We did not change MAF meter and kept 70mm throttle body, do we still need to adjust MAF or we need to dial in fuel?

I would work with the MAF unless you are already running at 14.5 to 15.5 AFR through moderate acceleration.

Deleted above posts

My bad missed the info on still using same MAF

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Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/joeembery#p/u
My Pics:
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...cpZZ1QQtppZZ16

You only changed fuel and not air. Why would you mess with MAF???

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85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

werd, im with homie ^


however, the stock fox body ecu's don't exactly have the maf curve dialed in there is some fluctuations, i think its more so the old ass electronics

but like folk said, keep the maf stock since your using a stock maf and dial in the injectors

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

This is what I'm thinking, since we swapped only injectors. Right now I have only injector slopes and offset vs V changed.
Is there Fuel calibration 101, like the direction for air that you put together? :)

Should I dial in fuel by using base fuel table (changing AFR)? What are my targets. I'm thinking to run different engine speeds and try to get different loads to record AFR with my innovate setup, then adjust fuel to where it's need to be. So I want to know what variables to change and what is ideal as a result?

load and rpm doesnt mean shit when dialing in fuel only lambse kamrf and mafv

air is air fuel is fuel, for x amount of air you need x amount of fuel to get x afr
in other words for mafv amount of air you need kamrf amount of fuel to get lambse afr

kamrf can be learned correction in closed loop or wideband in open loop same principle

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

So for now what I need to do is to drive the car and let it learn, that what you guys call dial in fuel? Then do idle air 101?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm new at this. I work with diesel engine calibration, and most of our maps are based on engine speed and load.

dialing in fuel is when your wideband matches your lambse, heres the link to tuning step 1
viewtopic.php?t=18470

that can also be entitled "fuel 101" 'cause thats what your doing

but yes you got the right idea, the great thing about what i did with the a9l2 cal is allow closed loop to dial in your WOT fuel when cold, this makes it much easier to get it where it needs to be

with mass air you have a mass airflow transfer function instead of having a VE map like you would with speed density

IMO mass air is more accurate and takes less time to dial in, it also compensates for changes better

in fuel 101 all your fueling questions will be answered if not don't hesitate to post there



i do what i can

dashpot is the art of reducing rpms slowly as to prevent engine stall and also aid in emissions or so claimed

you can increase dashpot but adding more air in the dashpot pre-position function, this is assuming you have your idle air dialed in

idle air 101 http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/idleair101.htm

This is great info, that is exactly what I was looking for.... after driving for 20 miles today it doesn't look like fuel needs to be adjusted (just by looking at AFR gauge). Next step is to record AFR data then adjust injector slope. If I understand correctly, if I see WBO2 AFR rich compare to desired A9l2, I need to increase injectors slope, to reduce pulswidth and deliver less fuel.... correct?
Thank you,
Vaidas

the afr gauge is useless without knowing what the lambse is


if the afr gauge did what you expected then that means closed loop has brought your fueling where it needs to be, you can now use the learned kamrf correction data to get your fuel where it needs to be


open up your tune and go to your maf transfer function, write down all the voltage values, now open your datalog and organize your datalog by mafv, then write down the average kam at each one of your maf voltages



the ONLY time you can adjust the slopes to bring your fueling closer is if it needs it at all points, if only a few points need adjustment then that can only be done in the maf curve

correct... a larger injector (higher slope) sprays less time (lower pw) for the same amount of fuel as a smaller injector


i was going to type something else but its eluding me at the present

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

oh yeah i remember now

kamrf... that value is in percentage, 1.00=100% of calculated fuel was used, a value higher than 1 lets say 1.08 = 108%, which means it was lean and the ecu used 108% of the fuel it calculated, if the kamrf is below 1, perhaps .92=92%, then it was rich and the ecu used 92% of the fuel calculated

_________________
http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Now I understand little bit better...still couple questions:
kamrf - MAF backflow correction table? And after driving values will change from 1 to lower or higher number

open up your tune and go to your maf transfer function, write down all the voltage values, now open your datalog and organize your datalog by mafv, then write down the average kam at each one of your maf voltages

kam - is air flow value (kg/h)? Do I need to use this value in my new MAF TF or do I need to multiply/divide this value by the number from kamrf?

Why on earth would anyone want to have clossed loop learning allowed during WOT conditions? This makes absolutely no sense to me

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

maf backflow table should all be 1s

kamrf is the learned correction stored in RAM, its only accessible by datalogging

kam is keep alive memory

when you log be sure the kamrf payloads are selected along with mafv and lambse
once you have a good log made you open the log with EA or excel, then arrange the
datalog by mafv, write down the average kam correction at each of the mafv

if you are applying that correction to the maf transfer then you multiply by the correction
value, example: 1.08 kam you simply multiply the flow by 1.08, if the kam is .92 at a specific
point then you multiply the flow by .92



Ed...
1> why not let the narrowbands dial the fuel in for you? that just less work you have to do
2> it verifies the wideband is accurate
3> much faster to dial in
4> a cold engine is not going to be hurt by running wot at stoich
5> those without a wideband know exactly where there wot fuel is at

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

I am not quite sure anyone would run their car WOT cold or at least under 160 degrees. Just doesnt make sense. If you were to do this with a supercharged or turbo car you would have a mess on your hands no matter what temp. I dont understand why anyone would want adaptives to be in control of fueling during wot mode. Allowing adaptives to learn and closed loop operation during WOT is a strict no no to me and there is a reason why Ford engineers didnt enable it either. Its unsafe. Adaptives and closed loop operation are fine under 3.0 volts but anything above I dont want the hegos controlling my fuel to be stoich. I still stand firm that a wideband will always under any condition be more accurate than a narrow band any day of the week. If this works fine for you than great. I for one would not do things that way. To each his own.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA