Clint and I have been monitoring an issue with the QH where the tune that's selected isn't the tune the QH is actually serving to the EEC.

I suspected this was happening a while back when I was making some tune changes, and not seeing the results of those changes. I eventually downloaded that tune to all 8 tune positions and voila! I got the expected responses. That spawned me to come up with a way to datalog exactly which tune I was in. I did this by reserving a byte in the unused area of my GUFB-based tune for me to enter a value in. I then updated the datalogging patch code to relay that value to the QH at runtime so I could datalog it on my dashboard and see which tune was being served to the EEC.

As suspected, there were times when the tune I expected to be served wasn't what the EEC was being given. For example, I might have BE setup to make Tune 2 active, but Tune 8 would be what's actually being served to the EEC. Before, I was blind to this. But with the ability to datalog the active tune, I can now see when this is happening and see which of the 8 possible tunes is the active tune.

To make diagnosing this easier, Clint added support for this tune-tracking feature to the latest version of BE (not sure if it is release yet or not). But what it does is pokes the Tune position number into the tune automatically upon download so you don't have to manually enter the tune number in as a scalar for each tune position like I was doing during my development of the feature.

Clint and I, both have tried to contact Craig, but he seems to be on vacation since we aren't getting a response from him. I assume he's on vacation because he's usually quick to get back with either of us, particularly when we have an issue that directly relates to his products. So I expect in the next week or so, we'll be hearing from him, get him involved with what Clint and I have reproduced, and hopefully will get to the source of the problem.

In the meantime, I've implemented this tune-tracking feature in all 3 of the GUFx defs currently posted on the BE/EA website (Rev 79). To make use of it requires a redownload/write of all tunes you currently have in your QH as well as adding the TUNEPOS payload item to your list of payloads to be datalogged. With all tunes rewritten to the QH, you should be able to track, in real time, what tune is being served to the EEC. This works for all 3 modes. So if you use the hardware switch to select your tune (Mode 1 or 5), you should be able to see the tune change as you change the switch position. Although you may find some tune positions aren't changing or are changing to a tune you don't expect them to. Clint and I found instances where if you download all 8 tune positions in Mode 2, then flip to Mode 1, the hardware switch doesn't appear to work at all...and add to that, the tune being served to the EEC is one of the tunes that shouldn't be accessible via the hardware switch...usually Tune 8. What we found that helps is datalogging from each of the tunes, while in Mode 2, before switching to Mode 1/5.

At least with this, you'll have a better picture of what's going on behind the scenes in the event you find that tune changes appear to be doing nothing. In those instances, you may find your changes aren't having an affect because the tune you are modifying isn't the tune the QH is serving to the EEC.

If anybody wants to be able to use this tune-tracking feature with an older version of BE, I'll need to make an addition to the currently posted def files. That can be done, but I didn't want to implement it unless it was needed by someone. But keep in mind, you will need to manually adjust a scalar before downloading to each tune position. For example, if you are downloading to Tune position 3, you'll want to fill the scalar with a 3. Then when you download to Tune 4, first update the scalar to a value of 4.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

If i understand you correctly, this can happen no matter what tuning software you're using?

Ill prolly be seeing him friday, to let him play software on mine a little bit. Ill ask him.

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1991 Strawberry coupe 5spd, black interior.
AFR 165's, GT40 with Exploder lower, TFS Stg 1 cam, 1.72 roller rockers
75mm TB, EGR spacer, 73mm Vortech MAF calibrated for 24#.
Mac equal length shorties, offroad x and magnaflow cat back
Quarterhorse on A9P, using A9L .BIN, EEC Editor or Tunerpro with LC-1

2011 GT/CS Roush TVS, 82mm, VMP tune. 585 rwhp/502 rwtq

What I can tell, it can happen whatever software and whatever strategy you are running. But unless your def file and patch code for that strategy is modified to track the tune position, you'll likely only get the tune-tracking feature with a GUFx def using BE.

It is possible the 2-bank and 4-bank strategies are safe from this. They aren't nearly as complicated as the 1-bank implementation because 1-bank tunes have 3 possible modes. The 2 and 4 bank strats only have 1 mode each.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Pretty much everything you said went over my head... ROFL. If Craig has a BE capable computer, ill let him tinker with mine tomorrow. I will ask him and direct him to this thread though. Ive a A9P with GUFx so it can be the test dummy.

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1991 Strawberry coupe 5spd, black interior.
AFR 165's, GT40 with Exploder lower, TFS Stg 1 cam, 1.72 roller rockers
75mm TB, EGR spacer, 73mm Vortech MAF calibrated for 24#.
Mac equal length shorties, offroad x and magnaflow cat back
Quarterhorse on A9P, using A9L .BIN, EEC Editor or Tunerpro with LC-1

2011 GT/CS Roush TVS, 82mm, VMP tune. 585 rwhp/502 rwtq

I got in touch with craig and he has the latest version of BE now. He will need to set some time aside to set it all up and duplicate what we are seeing. Again we have not determined if it is BE or the firmware in the QH but it is Definitely a issue that is visible. I spoke with craig on th phone so he is aware of it and knows how to re produce it. I just want this bug gone. If it is BE or QH i am sure craig and or I will take care of it. To tell you the truth i hope it is some sequence that i am doing wrong in BE. This will prevent the possibility of sending QHs back for firmware updates. It is better for the software to be a fault in this case.

In short, just download your tune to all 8 positions and you should be ok from there.

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lol i posted on turboford about this when i first got my BE/QH last year but no one else said they were having issues. It typically never let me datalog unless all slots were full..i made a habit up untill the last month or so of saving all 8 the same tune but i been slacking. guess ill start doing it again

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2.3T Notchback
LA2 BE/QH currently running SD on E85
11.6@116 on street tired road race car on medium boost

If your def file is "open", you can use GUFB as an example of how you can add tune position tracking to your strategy. I have an analog meter that I put on my dashboard that updates as the tune position changes. This is my visual cue of which tune I'm currently running (not necessarily currently selecting). It's really neat how fast it updates as I flip the hardware switch (when things are working like they are supposed to).

I highly recommend that the def developers implement this into their defs. Even once the issue is resolved and we have a new QH firmware image or an updated BE that handles the QH differently so as to avoid this issue, I think it is still a nice comfort to see exactly which tune is being served up in the datalog. It might also be useful for people that have their NOS arming switch wired to switch their tune in the QH. They'll be able to see in their datalogs right when the NOS armed as well as what tune they were switching from and to.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

I'd like to see this implemented in CBAZA. Any tips so I could attempt to do this myself? I suppose the main thing I need to know is a safe/unused address to stick this scalar...


I noticed some behavior in BE that may be related to this issue. When I write to tune 1, BE says "writing to tune 8," write to tune 2 -> "Writing to tune 7." This pattern continues where the reported tune number list is reversed from the actual tune I'm writing to. Finally, I can't clear tune 8. I click clear but the name of the tune still remains in slot 8. QH is v1.6

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1994 Mustang GT, 351w (377 stroker), TFS heads, hydraulic roller lifters, 1.7 roller rockers, explorer intake, T4M0, Quarterhorse, SLC-DIY wideband AFR meter

That was a bug I reported with one of the beta versions of BE Build 15. I thought it had been fixed as of Build 15 Beta 5. However I'll pay more attention. I just saw someone mention that Build 16 is available. I'll be trying it out and I'll see if that release "reverted" that bug I already reported.

BTW, the reason you saw that is because we moved around what Bank positions in the QH are what Tune number. Before, BE was numbering the Tunes from 1st the last available tune position available in the QH. The problem with this was that when using a single bank tune, Tune 1 in Mode 1 and Mode 2 were two different tunes. Thus Tune 1 in Mode 2 was NOT the same tune as Tune 1/Hardware Position 1 while in Mode 1. Now they are.

As for implementing this in CBAZA, if you are using the open source def, then just mirror what I did in GUFB. If you are using a CRY file, you'll need to talk to the def developer to get it implemented.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

It was not until the tune position was able to be logged that this issue could not be duplicated. Now that we have the ability to log what tune is being presented to the eec, we can see when the error happens. Craig is aware of the issue and as the most recent BE and he has the tools to duplicate it. Now craig can tell me if i am implementing something in the code wrong or maybe there is something in the QH that needs some attention. I need to keep in contact with craig on this issue so that we can resolve it.

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Here's an update. I modified the CBAZA strat to add the tunepos scalar and payload. I'll attach that in case anyone else wants it.


I'm now using BE build 16 with QH 1.6 in Mode 2 and still noticing some bugs. When I click the button to clear tune 8, the tune 5 position blanks out instead of 8. The mismatched tune position naming for writing is working, but not for reading. Here's a table of the mismatch:

Actual position, Reported position, TunePos Scalar
1,8,1
2,6,2
3,5,3
4,7,4
5,4,5
6,3,6
7,2,7
8,1,8
So it appears to just be cosmetic.

BE didn't seem to be automatically updating the tunepos scalar, so I guess that feature is not in build 16. Can you verify that?

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1994 Mustang GT, 351w (377 stroker), TFS heads, hydraulic roller lifters, 1.7 roller rockers, explorer intake, T4M0, Quarterhorse, SLC-DIY wideband AFR meter

I find that I only run into this issue when I have more than one slot used on the qh, I only use one slot and by doing so I've noticed its much more consistent and reliable

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http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/

Once you made these changes to the strategy file you must re download to the QH in all positions to update and re sync the tune positions.

I will look into the clearing of the tunes. Thanks for reporting that.

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i found that i could not datalog unless all the tune slots were full. i made habit of keeping them all the same also, but is there any issue with running all the tunes with the same name but the current one im using being a more updated version of it? IE i always label my tunes with the date and rough tune (LA3_SD 8-10-10 E85 RS450) and lets say all are called that but if i make a change and update one of them should i do them all or should i always rename them? typically ill go 8-10.1-10, 8-10.2-10 etc. if i make major changes the same day to the tune but if i forget to change one thing i might just save over the same tune? is this bad?

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2.3T Notchback
LA2 BE/QH currently running SD on E85
11.6@116 on street tired road race car on medium boost

No the name is just a text string that has nothing to do with the way the tune operates. They can all have the same name or different, does not matter.

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+1
I too only utilize one position and leave all others blank....I had too many issues that were random and unexplained when switching tunes and by using only one position I rarely if ever have an issue with the mode/position changing

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STLMustangs
Dealer and Tuning Support for DiabloSport,TwEECer, Moates, SCT & HPTuners

x3

I started noticing that I couldn't delete ay tunes that were in the position 8. I know that when I hit delete that it only deletes the name and not the actual tune but I couldnt even delete the name. So I too just started loading only one position with my tune and it seems to help.

I do still have the issue with BE shutting down when I click "stop" when datalogging though.

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86 GT, 347 stroker 10.5:1 compression, A9L, 30lb. injectors, ProM 80mm, Ported Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads (190s), TFS "R" intake, FTI custom cam, 1 3/4 BBK LTs, 3" X-pipe, 3" Boral XS mufflers, 4:10 rear, Moates QH V1.6 (BE/EA), Dynojet Wideband Commander II

Guy i am very sorry for this. I wish i could duplicate the crash on stopping of a datalog. I would fix it if i could duplicate it.

Try monitoring data but not logging and then stop the monitor and see if it crashes. I want to try and narrow it down to monitoring or logging.

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You and I have worked on this for the past couple of months on my 92. I think I may have my datalogging issues narrowed down to datalogging throttle status (TS). From what I see and you have kinda steered me towards this as the fact that it is the only "enumeration" based payload tag. I think between that, the correct drivers and current strategy (rev 80) that I am stumbling onto something in how the datalogging acts when they are configured improperly. I am not sure if everyone that is experiencing issues with the datalogging have the enumeration values set properly. I also noticed that the enumeration values for TS seem to be the same as ISCFLG and may be conflicting?I know my issue is not directly related to tune position ( I have experienced issues with tune position allocation as well) but it could be something or nothing but is worth looking into.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

if that is the case then log the value as a non enumeration and see if the crashing stops

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I didnt know I was able to log TS as a numeric value with BE2010 but I will definitely try it. I am going to experiment more with it tomorrow enabled/disabled and numeric/enumeration and see what I come up with.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

All values are logged as numeric values but it is BE that will display them as enumerations if one is set up.. If this is the issue we can track it down.

You are on build 17 correct.

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Yes, build 17, gufb rev. 80 and the Moates drivers you helped me out with the other night, so everything should be straight. I have both laptops up to date and current so we will see what tomorrow brings. TS is the only tag that defaults as enumeration as far as i can see so I have my fingers crossed and gonna burn up some gas logging tomorrow.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Update:

Tried logging and still having issues. Both Laptops failed polling as soon as I started driving the car around. Tried a couple of different things and unfortunately none of them worked so my question is this; Is there a possible issue with the 1.6 QH firmware that we need to investigate? I never had these issues with 1.4

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

Try logging only 2 parameters and see if it is the same. Also try setting the latency to 2 (use CTRL +L) and see if that helps. The default is 16 on the latency.

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I have tried that in the past and its hit or miss. It doesnt act upuntil I start driving. I can sit and idle for hours with no issue. The latency; I never tried. My default is 16. What exactly does the latency effect? Ill gove the latency a try either way.

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1989 GT - 25th Anniversary 5.0, Vortech S-Trim, TFS Trackheat Heads & Intake, TFS Stage 1 Cam, FRPP 1.6 RR, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm, Anderson Power Pipe, FRPP 42#s, GS-340/255 lph pump, Anderson 1-3/4 shorties, 3" Borla Exhaust, Tremec T-5, 3.73-31 spline, MSD 6AL2, complete-lowered suspension A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4, BE, EA, Innovate LC-1/XD-16.

1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Renegade 317, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf,A3M1, Moates QH/SL v1.6/1.4 BE, EA

My computer isn't fast enough to go much faster than a latency of 14. If I drop it any lower, it won't stay datalogging.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

What gets me is if you let it idle it works fine but as soon as you go for a drive it go nuts. Is this on both cars? I am thinking radio noise or EMI. I thought we went down all of these possible causes.?

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Is there any chance you are using an inverter to power the laptop while you drive? I tried that and had nothing but headaches. Once I abandoned that and just relied on the battery, reliability in datalogging was much better. This is with an old laptop. I expect newer laptops would behave better than that.

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...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

If you have a switching power supply for your laptop, they should do fine with an inverter. But if it was an older laptop without a switching power supply they can be unhappy with the type of power some inverters spit out.

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93 Ford Tbird SC 5speed 3.8l (441hp/462tq) V6 2.0l autorotor 80lb/hr injectors. Valves 1.84I/1.57E CAM: 218 in 224 ex lift is .555/.555 114 lobe sep, Rhoads VMAX lifters, stud mounted adjustable rockers. 9:1CR Forged Wiseco custom pistons, Scat 6.2" (long) H-Beam Rods. 75mm throttle body, 80mm C&L MAF (ford factory electronics) Snow Methanol Injection ; Liquid/Air intercooler; Moates QH 1.6; BE 2010; Innovate LM1 & AuxBox