Explorer ECM

Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Explorer ECM

Postby Carl » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:27 pm

Will the Tweecer work on a 1996 Explorer ECM? I don't know the number for the ECM,but I can give the part number,F67F-2A650-TB,a secondary number listed is,ML2-336.According to the dealer it is supposed to be an EEC-IV computer.The reason I ask,I would like to use a 5.0 Explorer ECM for the DIS capabilities,in my '89 5.0.Any insight before I start buying parts? Thanks! :beers:
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Postby Sabio » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:13 pm

You can use DIS with your EEC-IV ! You need an EDIS8 module a VR-sensor a crank trigger wheel (36-1 tooth) and two coil packs with suitable plug wires.Also a Distributor plug to hold the oil drive shaft! You can use all the stuff from an Explorer. You can wire the EDIS module directly to the ECM!

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Postby Carl » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:41 pm

Cool! How do you do it! I already figured about the Explorer stuff ( dummy shaft,balancer,module and coils) the BIG question is,what wires do I hook up where? Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated! :beers:
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Postby Sabio » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:54 pm

If you can give me your e-mail address I can send you some schematics.
I don´t know how to post pics to this forum,I think you must have a server!?
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Postby gastonglock » Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:28 pm

I'm interested in this swap also. Send some diagrams and pictures (if you have some) to me too please.

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Postby Carl » Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:48 pm

Check your PM box.I am not real comfortable with broadcasting my email address to the world. :beers: Carl
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Postby lamrith » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:34 am

I am surprised Jim has not chimed in. DIS can be made to work with the EEC-IV without buying the expensive EDIS module. Thereis a module in the (I believe) 93-95 Crown Vic's. IT is a module that controls the EDIS and sends a PIP type signal out to the EEC, just like a TFI module would. I have not done any work on it myself, I am just pulling from my limited memory what he told me.

As for the Explorer ECU, no it is not supported yet. I already tried with a 98 ECU for the same reason.


THAT SAID I would like to get a copy of those Schematics if possible as I greatly want to do DIS myself. I wanted it so bad I spent 2 weeks trying to get a 97 cobra ECU (YEs a 4.6L modmotor ecu) to run my 5.0!! It ran, but ran like microwaved dog doo...

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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:21 am

Carl wrote:Check your PM box.I am not real comfortable with broadcasting my email address to the world. :beers: Carl


Mmmh! Checked it,but no mail from you!
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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:33 am

lamrith wrote:I am surprised Jim has not chimed in. DIS can be made to work with the EEC-IV without buying the expensive EDIS module. Thereis a module in the (I believe) 93-95 Crown Vic's. IT is a module that controls the EDIS and sends a PIP type signal out to the EEC, just like a TFI module would. I have not done any work on it myself, I am just pulling from my limited memory what he told me.


I think you´re little confused :wink: That´s the Module were talking about all the time.It´s a stand alone computer that manages Spark in conjunction with the EEC! It´s the EDIS 4,EDIS 6 and EDIS 8 which Ford uses in several Cars like Mark VIII,Crown Vic, Grand Marquis,Town Car,Escort,Bronco II,Explorer,Ranger and Aerostar! You can found it very cheap on the junk yard !
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Postby lamrith » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:03 am

OK, I just wanted to make sure, becuase Ford also sells a "aftermarket" unit called the edis8 which is around $350+. So the 96/97 explorer where EEC-IV? and used that module?? VERY interesting. I have a '98 ECU which is a EEC-V that has the DIS built into it, as do all the 98-01 explorers.

I had mentioned to Mike about looking into suporting the explorer ecu, since it has coil pack/crank fire which I am told will support higher RPM than the stock A9L can handle, plus they are darn cheap and easy to find. I got a complete EFI kit with harness, ECU, coil packs sensors, crank trigger and even MAF for under $100. But then ran into problems getting the ECU to be twEECer able. And the 98+ (maybe earlier all had PATS so I could not even get it to fire off :-(
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Postby Carl » Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:18 pm

I have sent three replies,but when I check my outbox,none of them show up.So,I am going to throw caution to the wind,cwall@primus.ca.Hopefully you can send those schematics.I guess it is safe to assume that you have successfully done this to your own 'Stang?
:beers: Carl
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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:07 pm

lamrith wrote:OK, I just wanted to make sure, becuase Ford also sells a "aftermarket" unit called the edis8 which is around $350+. So the 96/97 explorer where EEC-IV? and used that module?? VERY interesting. I have a '98 ECU which is a EEC-V that has the DIS built into it, as do all the 98-01 explorers.(


No,No,No!
Just the 90-93 4.0 liter Explorer uses the external EDIS ! EEC-V was introduced in 1993 and was first used on Mustangs with V6 in 1994 and for V8 engines in 1996!
The EEC-V has the EDIS Controller built into it!!!!!
You mean aftermarket because the Module is marked with "Motorcraft"????
Please tell me one Motor Company that built one piece inhouse,it´s all outsourced today!!!
350$ is a little high! It usually sells for 300 $ ! Look at ebay you can buy used modules for 30-60 bucks!
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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:25 pm

lamrith wrote:I got a complete EFI kit with harness, ECU, coil packs sensors, crank trigger and even MAF for under $100. But then ran into problems getting the ECU to be twEECer able. And the 98+ (maybe earlier all had PATS so I could not even get it to fire off :-(


Do you also have the cam sensor??? EEC-V needs it for cylinder identification!!!
What means "PATS" :?:
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Postby lamrith » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:29 pm

Boy we are all crossed up!! :P

FMS now still makes and sells a stand alone EDIS module that is designed to plug into a EEC-IV to run crank trigger distributorless. It is an aftermarket item, maybe the $$ came down, but when I checked 2yrs ago it was in the $350 range and came with the module, crank trigger and a crank wheel. Lidio at Alternative Auto even connected one to I think a FAST system for his 351 and got great results.

Now you say the V6 explorers in 90-93 had EDIS. Then I think in 96 the V8 Explorer went EEC-V which like we both said already has DIS built in.

I WILL be checking EvilBay, do you just search for DIS? I got a distributor to fit under the hood now, but it would be nice to pull the Coil packs out and use those anyway. Gotta have the cool factor even with a car like mine.

THANKS FOR THE SCHEMATICS!!!
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Postby lamrith » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:37 pm

Yes I got the cam sensor also. That was the one thing I did not know how to set-up. I have 2 different Cam sensors, one from the 98 harness kit I got and one from the 99 explorer motor I bought. Unfortunately they are different, the 98 has a 1/2 moon shape to the shaft inside, the 99 has a single small peg sticking up into the sensor. Both require a special tool from Rotunda to be set-up properly, unless maybe someone knows a trick to it? I tried moving mine all around and it made no difference in how the motor ran with the 97 cobra Ecu (yes a 4.6L ECU ran a 5.0)

PATS = Passive Anti Theft System. It disables the ECU after 3 seconds unless the ECU gets the proper code from the dash harness. twEECer can disable this in some ECU's.

OH Here are some EDIS/DIS links I have found around the net:
Ford EDIS
EDIS outline
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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:49 pm

lamrith wrote:Boy we are all crossed up!! :P

FMS now still makes and sells a stand alone EDIS module that is designed to plug into a EEC-IV to run crank trigger distributorless. It is an aftermarket item, maybe the $$ came down, but when I checked 2yrs ago it was in the $350 range and came with the module, crank trigger and a crank wheel. Lidio at Alternative Auto even connected one to I think a FAST system for his 351 and got great results.

Now you say the V6 explorers in 90-93 had EDIS. Then I think in 96 the V8 Explorer went EEC-V which like we both said already has DIS built in.

I WILL be checking EvilBay, do you just search for DIS? I got a distributor to fit under the hood now, but it would be nice to pull the Coil packs out and use those anyway. Gotta have the cool factor even with a car like mine.

THANKS FOR THE SCHEMATICS!!!

:cry: You must differ between the EDIS4,EDIS6 and EDIS8!
EDIS4 is for 4 cylinder engines,EDIS6 for 6 cylinder engines and EDIS8 for ?? Right, 8 cylinder engines!
Lidio uses the "edist" from fast and yes you get more Horsepower from an EDIS setup because it is more accurate in spark timing !
Search for edis! I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 2444874379
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Postby Sabio » Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:11 pm

lamrith wrote:I wanted it so bad I spent 2 weeks trying to get a 97 cobra ECU (YEs a 4.6L modmotor ecu) to run my 5.0!! It ran, but ran like microwaved dog doo...

One think that come into my mind is:
Do you have an H.O. (High Output) engine? If not you have a different firing order! On the 4.6 and 5.0 H.O. it´s 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8!
On the base 5.0 it´s 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 !
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Postby lamrith » Sat Nov 29, 2003 7:02 pm

I have a late model motor with the correct EFI/HO firing order. in fact I bought this new motor for just that reason. The reason I could not get it runnign well is purely due to the 4.6 and 5.0 being very different motors and ?I did not want to spend months just getting it to run. I MAY yet go EDIS but for now I am staying 94/95 cobra electronics.

I am keeping eyes openon EDIS for possible use on a track only car.

Sorry, being a bit snobby I guess heh I only talk about the 8cyl version heh
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Postby Carl » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:14 pm

Sabio,thanks for the diagrams! Now tha BAD news,while I was looking at the schematics,I was wondering what the SAWP was.So I went to the IATN site,read it is supposed be SAPW ( Spark Angle Pulse Width).From what I was reading,WITHOUT the SAPW signal (it's generated by the ECM) the EDIS module will go into LOS (Limited Operating Strategy) which means spark timing is limited to only 10*! I know that I have noticed an EDIS parameter in the Scalors function.Will enabling that,give us the much needed SAPW signal? And which ECM terminal will it be present at? Early versions of DIS didn't require a SAPW signal to function,unfortunately this was only available on the Dual plug 2.3 and the SHO. I guess we need to come up with some ideas! :beers: Carl
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Postby Sabio » Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:18 am

Carl wrote:Sabio,thanks for the diagrams! Now tha BAD news,while I was looking at the schematics,I was wondering what the SAWP was.So I went to the IATN site,read it is supposed be SAPW ( Spark Angle Pulse Width).From what I was reading,WITHOUT the SAPW signal (it's generated by the ECM) the EDIS module will go into LOS (Limited Operating Strategy) which means spark timing is limited to only 10*! I know that I have noticed an EDIS parameter in the Scalors function.Will enabling that,give us the much needed SAPW signal? And which ECM terminal will it be present at? Early versions of DIS didn't require a SAPW signal to function,unfortunately this was only available on the Dual plug 2.3 and the SHO. I guess we need to come up with some ideas! :beers: Carl



Now the good news 8) SAW is an OLD Term,now the new acronym is:
SPOUT ! The two are the same,the signal is the same! It´s PIN 36 on the ECM!:beers:
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Postby Carl » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:31 am

Well,I guess I was getting my brain all f**ked up over nothing! Old accronyms VS. new,I really don't want to spend a bunch of cash,to find that the ECM can't adjust spark timing. :beers: Carl
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Postby lamrith » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:37 am

I wondered about that also when I was trying the 97 cobra ECU, how to adjust timing. I know for the mod motors, places like Steeda have adjusters, maybe they are adaptable, or maybe with twEECer you can just use the global spark adder scalarto bump it up?
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Postby wkstill » Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:32 pm

ok, can i say something ?


CAN someone Post this great info, parts etc.

If need be, email to me, i will host on site somewhere.. This is the first i heard of easily putting edis8 on a EEC-IV System.. I heard you needed to majorly rig up something for it to work..

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Postby lamrith » Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:42 pm

Give me a few days, I will get the images posted up on my site. The bulk of it is just sharing like this thread, but the images Sabio sent me are helpfull, 2 of them I had never seen before and they give the real details needed to make the interchange easier.


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Postby Sabio » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:06 am

Carl wrote:Another question that I have is regarding the CID signal from the cam sensor.Am I going to have to worry about this?All of the DIS schematics that I have printed are using the CID signal.Four cylinder Mustangs use pin #5 for this,Crown Vics use pin #24.Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Carl sent me the inquiry above that I want to answer here!
OK ! Here comes the explanation:
EDIS can identify which cylinder is coming up to be fired because of the missing tooth at the Crank Trigger Wheel.But the missing tooth belongs to two cylinders,that´s why it makes a 1-revolution trial and error.During crank,EDIS tries to fire cylinder "1?".If that doesn´t start the engine it tries cylinder "5?" on the next revolution.EDIS then notes which of the two cylinder pairs worked,and remembers for as long as the engine runs.When it knows the 1-5 pair it also knows the other pairs!!!!
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Postby lamrith » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:04 am

Good info sabio! Once again you havegivenus info no-one else has been able to!!


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Postby Sabio » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:59 am

Thanks! It´s a pleasure for me! :burnout:
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Postby Carl » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:36 pm

Well from what I have been reading about Ford's DIS systems,that may actually put the ECM into a failure mode,locking the ignition advance to 10*.The '92-'94 Crown Vic EDIS module seems to be the simplest of the bunch ( if you can call them simple).According to Mitchell On Demand,they made no mention of a failure mode due to lack of a CID signal.They did mention failure mode for the others (2.3 D.P,3.0 SHO,3.8 S.C).I am just gonna try it out,I have ordered a C.V engine harness,EDIS and coil packs from the bone yard.I just have get my hands on the Explorer balancer,cam sensor and shaft and the crank sensor with mount.In the New Year I'll pull the car out of storage and bring it to the shop.I picked the C.V stuff up for $200,hopefully the Explorer stuff can be found for cheap! :beers: Carl
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EDIS

Postby turbinetrix » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:22 pm

Hi Guys,
I am interested in edis for a 557ci BBF and would like as much information as possible. Please send me anything you may have.
Thanks,
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Edis and Sabio

Postby turbinetrix » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:45 am

Thanks Sabio!
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