Looking for recommendation on Widebands

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Ldguinn1
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Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by Ldguinn1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:14 pm

Have several questions hopefully someone can steer me in the right direction

I have a 1994 mustang gt 5sp wanting to swap to 4r70w, will the 5 sp computer work with a u.s. shift controller, or just swap the computer for the auto version? Thoughts?

The car is tuned but has stalling issues on pushing in the clutch. So will be purchasing a Quarterhorse to replace the current chip. What are the essential needs to get started.

As far as a wide band meter which ones are compatible, and reliable, and easily integrated for less than an LM2,

Thanks in advance
Lyle Guinn
1994 Mustang GT 306, trick flow top end, Moates QH, BE, EA

LeadHead
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by LeadHead » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:39 pm

The U.S. Shift is independent of the computer you have. If your car stalls when the clutch is pushed in, then it isn't tuned very well.

Ldguinn1
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by Ldguinn1 » Wed May 03, 2017 7:04 pm

Got my QH rtying to get software registered but whe I try to purchase It tells me the link isnt functioning... Is there an alternative site?
TIA
Lyle Guinn
1994 Mustang GT 306, trick flow top end, Moates QH, BE, EA

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EDS50
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by EDS50 » Fri May 05, 2017 8:28 am

Ldguinn1 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 7:04 pm
Got my QH rtying to get software registered but whe I try to purchase It tells me the link isnt functioning... Is there an alternative site?
TIA
Lyle Guinn
www.moates.net
www.eecanalyzer.net
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

decipha

Re: Quarter horse

Post by decipha » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:50 am

the best wideband you can get for less than $1,000 US is going to be the AEM hands down

swap in an auto ecu and just dial it in no biggie

the 4r70w is the same trans as the aode with only the gear ratio's needing changed, no biggie, all the electronics are the same, make sure you reuse your 1ohm eec-iv tcc solenoid in the 4r70w if it has the inaccurate 10ohm tcc solenoid for an eec-v

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EDS50
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by EDS50 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:56 am

I think NTK, DynoJet Research and PLX make the best affordable wideband devices. I personally prefer and use Innovate MTXL.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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cgrey8
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:43 am

I have only ever owned an Innovate LC1 which uses the Bosch LSU4.2 sensor.

I bought it for these reasons:
  • It was relatively inexpensive
  • I didn't need a gauge
  • I didn't require it be easily removed. Installing it as a permanent addition to the vehicle was fine with me.
  • At the time, Innovate widebands were the only brand directly supported by BinaryEditor without using a DataQ or wiring into the EGR Position Sensor
My only real complaint with the LC1 is the serial polling rate, and it's more of a knit-pick than a real complaint. At one time, I had the Innovate connected to my PC via serial AND through a DataQ. The DataQ can be polled very FAST and the LC1's analog output seemed quite capble of sending fast, responsive signals to the DataQ to take advantage of that. But the Innovate serial connection just doesn't have the same quickness. They are good enough for tuning purposes (~150-200ms/sample), but compared to how fast you can datalog the QH and/or DataQ (<50ms/sample), it's sluggish.

Now that BE support other WB vendors, I would likely consider other brands if I was in a position to replace the LC1 or buy a new one for another project. However I've had pretty good experience with mine and I have to say I can't say I could justify spending more purely based on my experience with the LC1.

The original Bosch sensor has burned out once. I think it lasted 7-8 years? From what I understand, that's pretty good for a WB sensor. Interestingly though the second sensor behaves just a little differently and I don't fully know why. For example, in Closed Loop, the last sensor read from .99-1.03 and would spike as high as 1.05 in Closed Loop. This always made perfect sense to me given I modified my Closed Loop behavior AND HEGO voltage switch point to bias lean far more than rich. The new sensor reads from .96-1.01 and I haven't made any changes to the Closed Loop behavior in years. Where the old sensor would've intermittently spiked up to 1.05 while idling, this sensor only spikes to say 1.01-1.02 while idling. However on loaded cruise (still stabilized closed loop), it seems to behave very similar to the old one...numbers-wise. I tried recalibrating it multiple times just thinking that was the problem, but it still behaves the same even after performing multiple open air recalibrations as well as heater recalibrations.

Also during Decel Fuel Shut-Off (DFSO) mode where the injectors are turned off while in closed throttle deceleration conditions, the old sensor would consistently read 5.xx or 20.xxx lambda values but most of the time would just report 20.xxx and stay there until normal fueling returned. The new sensor causes the LC1 to report back a non-numeric O2 value which can be seen on the hardware tab in BE. For whatever reason, BE translates this to a numeric value of 1.500 on the dashboard. The old sensor NEVER did that. Don't get me wrong, it's not a problem. It's just I would have expected a replacement sensor to have behaved exactly the same. Granted I didn't buy the replacement from Innovate. I bought it from AutoZone. The sensor the LC1 used was the same sensor VW used on most 2001-2003 Golfs and Jettas...probably a few other things. So I just went in and requested a replacement sensor for them. And sure enough, it was the same connector and length wire so it perfectly replaced the old sensor (physically).

Since then Innovate now makes LC2s and the MTX-L, both of which replace the LC1 in both functionality and cost. They are also both compatible with either the classic Bosch LSU 4.2 WB sensor or the newer Bosch LSU 4.8 sensor of which most all WBs use today.

All-n-all, I can't say anything bad about my experience with the Innovate LC1. However being I only have experience with it and none with any other brand or model, I can't say with any authority whether other brands are "better" or not. I also don't know if the newer native USB-based Innovate devices poll faster than the 9600 baud RS-232-based LC1 did.

That's my experience...take it for what it's worth.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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EDS50
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Re: Quarter horse

Post by EDS50 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:02 am

I have experienced the same as you as well with latency/display polling rates but nothing really enough to make a change considering we are talking milliseconds. If I hold my laptop up close to my display there is a millisecond discrepancy between the gauge display and BE gauge display. I have played around with the dashboard display refresh rates which seemed to help and I think the rest is in the eec pin 27 wiring resistance in the harness. It is what it is. I like the Innovate MTXL because of its ease in set up simple set up. A lot of people like the AEM, I personally hate it and every customers or friends cars I worked on with it was just inconsistent between its readings and the dyno jet research wideband I use at the dyno. But that's just my experience. The only issue I had with the lc1 was the constant sensor free air recalibrations and sensor replacements I had to deal with. The sensors used today with the mtxl and newer Innovate devices are a ton better. One thing I still haven't been able to figure out is the adjustable display speed in lm programmer. I have tried setting it to 1/3, 1/6 and 1/12 display speed and haven't seen a difference from instant which is the default. When I had my Porsche I had a plx devices wideband and found it to be near dead on with the dyno jet wideband on the dyno.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

jsa
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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by jsa » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:59 pm

I have read that exhaust pressure changes effect LSU 4.2 output values.

I'm over the free air calibration calibration on the LC1 and the serial sounded good at the time but is a bit slow.

I am changing over to an AEM 30-0310 X series.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by LeadHead » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:15 pm

That's why they recommend LSU4.2 sensors be placed after the turbine in turbocharged applications.

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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by jsa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:52 pm

Yes of course, but does it have a straight through exit or catalytics and mufflers?
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
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EDS50
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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by EDS50 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:59 pm

Correct me if Im wrong but I thought LSU4.9 is the latest sensor offering for mass retail production.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Vortech347
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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by Vortech347 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:47 pm

I really like the AEM gauge (I have it in two of my cars) but programming the 0-5v transfer function via the EGR input method has been shotty at best. Trying to get it dialed in has been an absolute pain in the ass and I'm still not even within .50-1 in some areas.

Gauge itself, AEM kicks ass. Running it through the EEC to datalog pin 27 method? SUCKS!!!
Matt
90 GT, 347, Vortech Si-trim (11psi), Edelbrock 6037 heads, Super Victor 8.2 EFI Ported, 80MM Pmas, 60lb EV14 Bosch Gen 4 Injectors, KB BAP, B31 Cam, T56. Tweecer RT, A9L. Software: EA/BE. 550rwhp & 513rwtq.
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bamaFoxJuan
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Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by bamaFoxJuan » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:34 pm

I'm thinking about purchasing another wideband myself. I want one with a transfer function for binary editor and one that is accurate.

decipha

Re: Looking for recommendation on Widebands

Post by decipha » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:31 am

i use the aem x series, its a night and day difference from all of the older type widebands

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