I/O count of modern EECs

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I/O count of modern EECs

Post by cgrey8 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:44 am

In the older GUFx stuff, the I/O offering wasn't that dense. There was only the engine and peripheral engine-related sensors and controls to keep coordinated. As a result, the header that goes to the EEC is only 3 rows of 60 pins.

As more complex engine controls, transmissions, and other system interfaces become popular, more pins were needed. For most EEC-Vs, the header pin count went up to 4 rows of 104 pins.

Given how complex engines have gotten today, I believe most EECs have gone to multiple connectors. So what is the pin count of a worst case (or near worst case) EEC now?
And do you have a pin out sheet you can link me to?

BTW, I'm not limiting the question to just Ford EECs. If you know of a Lexus or GM EEC that's well known for having a gigantic pin count, I'd be interested in hearing about them too.

I vaguely recall that when copper got really expensive a few years back that car mfgs found it cheaper to run CAN bus wires all over the car and then daisy-chain local-control modules that controlled individual items onto that bus to eliminate long copper runs back to a central control box. I don't know just how true that is, but if that's true, then modern day EECs may be far less I/O dense and have their discrete I/O distributed across CAN devices. Thus the EECs with the highest I/O pin counts could be from the past, not from present production.

Anyway, I thought I'd ask from the people I felt would know far more than I would what the current EEC I/O offerings are.
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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by tvrfan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:13 pm

Just spotted this..........

NB.
1. whether or not the I/O is direct or via a bus, the EEC still has to receive/generate it, so all those events still have to happen in the code.
2. CAN bus as I understand was its own acronym Cheap, Adequate, Nasty, and was really because it's now cheaper to have a central bus
with stuff plugged into it, not only for wires, but for building/assembling too.... (Anywhere they can save a dollar....)

OK - that having been said.

I have a Toyota Camry (equiv) with a 2GR-FE V6. Although this is now an 'ordinary' engine, it develops 200kw (280 bhp) from 3.5 litres on standard 91 (= 87 in US ??), so it's no slouch. It's also VERY, VERY good on fuel. (like 7.1 L/100K or less on a highway run, driven sensibly).

(yes, this engine in many Toyota models now, and in Lotus cars)

It has individual spark plug ignitors, injectors, DOHC VVT (both in and ex, eec controlled) switchable inlet manfold routes (2 or 3, not sure)
I think EEC also controls the tx and it has traction control. Later engines have TWO SETS of injectors for higher efficiency (called D4S I think) from Lexus.

From what I read and put together, thats -
6 ignitors, 6 (12) injectors, 2 (4?) VVTi controllers and 2 (4?) sensors, inlet mfold sensors and actuators, remote throttle, one or more knock and hot wire flow sensors, std stuff of temp, ign pickup,etc. Auto tx sensors, 6 (?) sensors and 5 (6?) solenoid actuators, plus sensors on each wheel for ABS and traction control on front. (yes it's FWD).

That's a shitload of I/O already !! There might be a picture of EEC box on web somewhere, but I can see it has a HUGE connector block.

And I guess that sort of I/O array is more or less 'normal' now, for newer high tech engines.....
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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by cgrey8 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:19 pm

tvrfan wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:13 pm
...whether or not the I/O is direct or via a bus, the EEC still has to receive/generate it, so all those events still have to happen in the code...
Agreed. My interest is more in the hardware, than the firmware.
tvrfan wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:13 pm
...(yes, this engine in many Toyota models now, and in Lotus cars)...
Do you mean Lexus? Or literally Lotus?
tvrfan wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:13 pm
...From what I read and put together, thats -
6 ignitors, 6 (12) injectors, 2 (4?) VVTi controllers and 2 (4?) sensors, inlet mfold sensors and actuators, remote throttle, one or more knock and hot wire flow sensors, std stuff of temp, ign pickup,etc. Auto tx sensors, 6 (?) sensors and 5 (6?) solenoid actuators, plus sensors on each wheel for ABS and traction control on front. (yes it's FWD).

That's a shitload of I/O already !!
What about traditional I/O like HEGOs, secondary HEGOs, Cam/Crank sensor (assuming VVT sensors don't double for these), electric fan, AC cutout, Fuel cutout, PS sensor, EGR & EVP (if that's still a thing with VVT)?


Anyway, the reason I'm asking is it doesn't seem I'm ever actually going to get around to developing a J3 chip to turn the EEC processor into a co-processor by emulating ROM. And even if I did, the newest EEC-V is nearly 20 years old now. So the people that would be compelled to use it are just not as popular as they once were.

So instead I'm considering working with a colleague that is an Electrical Engineer and has designed custom circuit boards for other personal projects he's involved with. He looked at some aftermarket solutions like MS hardware where they basically replace the EEC with all their own Hardware. The question he had is just how much I/O is going to be required, and how does it break down as far as Analog I/O, Binary I/O (both high speed and low speed) as well as Pulse Output and Frequency Inputs. So I was just curious what the most I/O populated EEC there is out there. And then add 10% to that for any additional I/O people might want like EGTs (one per cylinder) etc.

Granted this is a HUGE undertaking to actually complete and it's not even close to being a real thing. But it's an idea of just how much hardware is going to be needed to even be viable. From there, we'll figure out what the options are from there for other peripherals. But with modern hardware like the Raspberry Pi chips, you get REALLY impressive hardware capabilities and some chip offerings are not only 2-4 core ARM Cortex A-series Processors (1.5+GHz) but also have 1-2 ARM Cortex M-series processors (200+ MHz) to handle real-time tasks, along with numerous options for peripherals including Bluetooth, 802.11b/g/n/ac, CAN, serial, HD touchscreen I/O control hardware, and LOTS of open source support via multiple Linux distros. However one thing none of these processors have is this much I/O. So a secondary controller to manage all that I/O would be necessary. The best I/O controller I know of is one called PSOC which is an extremely capable Analog I/O part with an ARM Cortex M4. But to get as much hardware I/O as we are talking here while keeping sampling rates high for the high-speed I/O, it would likely require multiple PSOC chips.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'll pass alot of this along to him and see what he thinks. If there's any Linux and/or RTOS gurus out there, I'd be interested in anybody that's interested in helping out with an open source project like this. And if there's any piece of the open source MS code I could use, I would. But it's still my intention is to do all the high-level logic and user interface stuff in Java. And then do any real-time stuff POSSIBLY as C-code and of course Foreground/background or MAYBE RTOSs on the realtime chips. Based on what I know about Arduino and how kludgy it can be, I'm not sure it makes any sense for something like this.
...Always Somethin'

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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by tvrfan » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:02 am

Ah right - sorry.

My 'standard' stuff' was the HEGOs and emission stuff, base sensors, basically what's on all engines. I don't know if VVT sensor replaces the 'standard' cam sensor or not, I think probably not as it's a 'cyl 1' marker Yes ??

I really DO mean Lotus. The Evora uses the 2GR-FE engine either NA or supercharged. (wikipedia)

I think Linux does have a real-time option, you would also have to hook code into the interrupts, and I'm not sure if you can do that easily.
However, there's probably other candidate OSes out there.
Raspberry PI, ARMs look like a good candidates, as you say.

I'm out of touch now, and increasingly becoming an IT dinosaur..............all my real time stuff was a LONG time ago....

From what I see around chip-wise, probably the modern EECs have powerful I/O chip(s) for all the duty cycle and high speed stuff, along with CAN bus driver, and CPU may not even deal much with it. The Raspberry Pi has ONE broadcomm chip to do ALL of its I/O, WiFI, USB, and probably that's true for more and more motherboards...

Good Luck anyway.
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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by jsa » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:13 am

Evidently Ford run out of IO on 8061 and 8065 chips, so they introduced DUCE and AICE chips to do some IO and possibly take load off of the uP.
Have a look in the handbook for the IO count of each.

They also hung instrument clusters off of DOL, CAN and who knows what else.

IO for boost control, ride control, and so it goes.

Google ChibiOS, it might be of interest.
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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by cgrey8 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:43 am

I found DUCE (DUty Cycle Expansion) and AICE (Analog Input Conditioner for EEC-V). But what is DOL? I've seen others mention it, but I don't believe I've ever known what it is since I never had to know for a GUFx era EEC.
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Re: I/O count of modern EECs

Post by jsa » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:57 pm

Data Output Link

A low speed output to fuel economy gauges, tripminders, etc.

There is info about it in the ford strategy docs.
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