A9L Fan control

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A9L Fan control

Post by Brian-Mc » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:43 pm

I just ventured into the topic of controlling my Mark VIII Fan with the EEC using the Tweecer. I went on and hooked everything up as if it would work mainly cause it if doesn't I can still trigger the fan on with another source. Well I was checking mine out last night and Pin 41 does not provide enough ground to trigger a relay. My question is this.. has anyone tried to trigger a transister? The transister does not require as much current to switch as much as the relay does to trip the contacts.

Anyone ever tried this? Mike, do you see any thoughts on this? Do you know the ouput impedence of pin 41?

Brian
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Post by Brian-Mc » Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:41 am

Anyone? Mike any thoughts?
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Post by 93Cobra#2771 » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:07 pm

Brian. sounds kinda risky to me to start using transistors, etc. Course, I'm no electrical guru by any stretch.

I'm in the middle of my mk8 instal, along with a dccontrol.com fan controller. Don't know if you know anything about them, but they are awesome. It will power your fan using pulse width modulation, and will maintain the temp with only the power needed. It also eliminates the high start up spikes for the mk8, as well as the high amp draw at all times.

www.dccontrol.com

model #fk-35
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Post by Brian-Mc » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:09 pm

Yea that looks like a good unit to use, however, the $$$ does not. I am gonna try and check into the transister setup sometime this week.

I know that the meter would indicate a ground but when I loaded it, it killed the output. I think it maybe really really low current output.
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Post by thunderstang » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:04 pm

Brian,
You could connect pin 41 to a small relay[low amp] & have the small relay trigger the large relay[high amp], this does work.

Good luck,
Brian

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Post by Brian-Mc » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:39 pm

I could not find one of the PNP transistors that I was looking for to complete my circuit, so I opted for a low current relay.. it works.. one question though... I had the settings set at HS fan on at 192°, HS fan off at 188° fan hysteresis at like 4. I don;t hvae my laptop here at work so I don't the specfics other than thoses... but the fan would come on at 192° fine, but it would not turn off until like 180°. Could this just be the time delay before it would shut off due to the speed of the eec, or is there another setting I need to adjust... I don't plan on using those numbers but just used those as a testing point for the car.
306 (stock block),TFS Track Heat Heads, E303 Cam, TFS track heat intake, 70 mm TB, 75mm Pro-M,42 lb injectors,Aeromotive AFPR, 255 lph intank, Crane Hi-6/LX-92. Turbonetics 60-1 hi-fi

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Post by 86GT » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:30 pm

I am in the process of installing a electric fan from a 94 Taurus. I read what I could about pin 41 and so on. The fan I got is a dual speed single fan. I also got the control module with it. It came with all of the relays and wiring for the control module. Everything was 40$ at Pick N Pull. I had to reverse engineer it, but I figured everything out and it works great with the control module.

My question is, does anyone know what the high and low speed outputs pins are on the EEC. I know of pin 41, but there should be another for the second fan speed. If anyone has a 94 + book that shows the pins it would be appreciated if you could look it up and tell me.

Oh yah, is pin 41 the high or low?

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Post by fireguy50 » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:42 pm

94-95 5.0L Mustang -

Pin 55 is the LOW
Pin 32 is the HIGH

They go to that CCRM relay module, which controls the A/C compressor, turns on the fan, and fuel pump. SO the computer might not kick on the fans for the A/C, the relay module might do that on it's own.
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Post by 86GT » Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:36 pm

WOW, no pin 41. Yes I also have the CCRM that operates the fans. The CCRM has four relays and an AC coil transistrer relay logic.

Relay 1 (K1) is the PCM power, which is a 3 amp relay
Relay 2 (K2) is the Fuel Pump Power, which is a 3 amp relay
Relay 3 (K3) is the High Speed Fan, which is a 40 amp BOSH relay
Relay 4 (K4) is the Low Speed Fan, which is a 40 amp BOSH relay

K3 is a fail safe on relay, This means it take a gorund signal from the EEC to turn the low speed fan off, while K4 is the opposite, it takes a gound signal from the EEC to turn it on. This allow the low fan to operate if the ECT temp sensor or ciricut goes bad.

Thanks for the info.

Has anyone used the A9L series with a two speed fan?

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Post by Brian-Mc » Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:15 pm

86GT wrote:WOW, no pin 41. Yes I also have the CCRM that operates the fans. The CCRM has four relays and an AC coil transistrer relay logic.

Relay 1 (K1) is the PCM power, which is a 3 amp relay
Relay 2 (K2) is the Fuel Pump Power, which is a 3 amp relay
Relay 3 (K3) is the High Speed Fan, which is a 40 amp BOSH relay
Relay 4 (K4) is the Low Speed Fan, which is a 40 amp BOSH relay

K3 is a fail safe on relay, This means it take a gorund signal from the EEC to turn the low speed fan off, while K4 is the opposite, it takes a gound signal from the EEC to turn it on. This allow the low fan to operate if the ECT temp sensor or ciricut goes bad.

Thanks for the info.

Has anyone used the A9L series with a two speed fan?
Clint,

I think you have the K3 and K4 backwards..?/? what are your intentions? are you wanting the low speed to come on with the key and high speed to come on at the higher temps?
306 (stock block),TFS Track Heat Heads, E303 Cam, TFS track heat intake, 70 mm TB, 75mm Pro-M,42 lb injectors,Aeromotive AFPR, 255 lph intank, Crane Hi-6/LX-92. Turbonetics 60-1 hi-fi

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Post by 86GT » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:27 am

K3 and K4 are correct. 3 = high and 4 = low.

I would like to use the CCRM the way it was intended by FORD. When I have the module wired up, and I leave pins 14 & 17 diconnected the low speed fan is on and the high speed fan is off. If I ground pin 14 (Low Speed Enable) the low speed turns off. If I gound pin 17 (High Speed Enable) then the High speed turns on. I believe Ford did this to prevent overheating if the temp sensing ciricut went bad.

If the ciricut went bad then yes the low speed fan would come on with the key (Fail Safe). If the ciricut was Ok then the EEC would apply a ground if the minimum temp is not met and release the ground when the low speed fan is commanded to turn on.

My intent is to find the two pins on the A9L series EEC that will accomplish the above requirements for the CCRM.

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Post by twinturbostang » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:11 am

I seem to remember someone talking about the low speed pin on the EEC. Don't remember what pin it was though. I also don't remember if it was actually hooked up or not. Try searching the forum for those messages.

Oh, high speed is definitely pin 41 though. I have that hooked up with my Mark VIII fan and A3M combo.
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Post by 86GT » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:18 am

Thanks

I now have pin 41 for the high. I will try to search for the low.

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Post by 93Cobra#2771 » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:07 pm

For some reason or another, I want to say there isn't actually a low speed setting on the A9L family. Don't quote me on that, however.
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Post by 93Cobra#2771 » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:19 pm

Let me rephrase - the settings are there, but the hardware in the EEC is not???
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Post by 86GT » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:28 pm

Very well possible, but I would like to exhaust all posibilities. I will most likley go through all remaining free pins to try and find it.

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Post by thunderstang » Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:53 pm

Clint,
while your in there look for the shift light hardware :)
The bad news is that the hardware wasn't installed for the low_fan or shift light. :cry:

Good luck,
Brian

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Post by 86GT » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:15 pm

thunderstang wrote:Clint,
The bad news is that the hardware wasn't installed for the low_fan or shift light.
Are you speaking from experience or hear say?

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Post by 86GT » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:21 pm

Just for an update:

I was able to verify pin 41 being the high speed enable. I tried the remaining open pins thinking that one of them had to be the low speed, but was unsucessful. I took the cover off of the EEC to find that most of the spare pins are not connected to anything. Below is a list of pins that are spare:

2 ( Not connected to any componets internally)
5 ( Not connected to any componets internally)
8( Not connected to any componets internally)
11( Not connected to any componets internally)
18( Not connected to any componets internally)
23( Not connected to any componets internally)
24 ( Connected to some componets)
28( Not connected to any componets internally)
34( Connected to some componets)
35( Connected to some componets)
39 ( Connected to pin 40 internally- Ground)
41 ( High Speed Fan Enable)
44( Not connected to any componets internally)
51( Connected to some componets)
53( Not connected to any componets internally)
55( Connected to some componets)

I am going to continue to research the topic.

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Post by twinturbostang » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:42 pm

As has been said here, I believe the low speed fan is one of those pins not connected to anything. It's as if the pin was designated for low speed fan, but it had not been implemented yet. If this is the case, you might have to build your own circuit that enables low speed upon criteria that you select (A/C on, temp in certain range, etc.).
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Post by fireguy50 » Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:12 am

86GT wrote:Just for an update:

I was able to verify pin 41 being the high speed enable. I tried the remaining open pins thinking that one of them had to be the low speed, but was unsucessful. I took the cover off of the EEC to find that most of the spare pins are not connected to anything. Below is a list of pins that are spare:

24 ( Connected to some componets)
24 has been used for the cam sensor (CID) on EDIS swaps
Some 3.8L cars used pin 31 for the fans High speed 13 for the low
13 is an injector on the A9, but 31 is the CANP.
is it possible to remove the CANP and use that pin / driver for the fan?

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Post by 86GT » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:02 am

I agree that I maybe barking up the wrong tree, but If ford enabled a high speed, where is the low?

As twinturbostang stated, " It may not be there hardware wise". This maybe possible. I maybe wasting my time, but I have to say that I am stubborn, and have to prove it before I give up. If it does not appear to be there then I will most likley build my own ciricut.

I hope it does not offends anyone.

I also found that pins 2,5,18,23,24 are inputs and pins 34,35,41,51 are outputs.

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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:24 pm

Well, definitely let us know what you find! :)
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Post by Skankin » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:26 pm

FWIW, the "fan low speed enabled" had to be switched on, even though I was only use the high-speed control.
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Post by 86GT » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:46 pm

I found that one of the required IC is missing. It is an 71001FB chip that can not be bought. It has been off the market for nearly four years.

I 8061 CPU is outputing the signal to the chip location but since the chip is missing, not ouptput is felt on the J1 connector. I was temped get the cip from a wreked car from the bone yard but. They are vary senitive to temperature. A good heat sink may do it while trying to un solder them, but the did a butcher job on getting them in there.

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Post by wa_4x4builder » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:31 pm

86GT wrote:I found that one of the required IC is missing. It is an 71001FB chip that can not be bought. It has been off the market for nearly four years.

I 8061 CPU is outputing the signal to the chip location but since the chip is missing, not ouptput is felt on the J1 connector. I was temped get the cip from a wreked car from the bone yard but. They are vary senitive to temperature. A good heat sink may do it while trying to un solder them, but the did a butcher job on getting them in there.
Hmmm, it's interesting how these topics come up at the right time for me. I just grabbed all the components at the pick-n-pull this weekend for 5 bucks to do this conversion (minus the fan). I was wondering the exact same thing- which TWO pins run the fan on the A9L. I know of pin 41, but what pin do you think is the other speed circuit? (the one you say is missing the IC?)

Chris
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Post by 86GT » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:57 pm

The chip that controls the fan has four output pins. The output pins goto J1 35, 51 and 55. I did not trace the last one. I am guessing but I think it is going to be pin 55

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Post by wa_4x4builder » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:06 pm

86GT wrote:The chip that controls the fan has four output pins. The output pins goto J1 35, 51 and 55. I did not trace the last one. I am guessing but I think it is going to be pin 55
Did you mean 41 by chance instead of 51? (not trying to be a smarta$$, just clarifying).

Thanks,
Chris
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Post by 86GT » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:46 am

no, 41 is for the high speed fan. I believe with the chip installed that pin 51 would be used for the low speed fan.

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Post by Bluenoser » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:26 pm

Hello,

I have read this thread with interest. I too wanted to configure the EEC to use a dual speed fan. 86GT, doing my research I also supposed that 51 was the pin that would control low speed of the fan. I also wanted to use a CCRM from a 94-95 Mustang and wire it to a 93 Mustang ECM. I followed pin 51 back on the board and found it stopped at the missing 16 DIP which I believe is either IC5 or IC6. I have found on the internet that the chip is still available at some locations. Do you think that it would be doable?

Is this the location that you suspect also?

http://www.schofieldcomputer.com/myCoup ... EECTop.jpg

Thanks

Ron

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