Mixing tunes between BE versions?

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scott88
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Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:25 pm

Hi folks, I have tuned with BE 2010 for years and use these tunes in my car currently, but I recently purchased BE 2012 (with the dongle) so I was wondering if I open a tune that was created in BE 2010 in the new version will it screw it up? I guess what I am asking is are the versions interchangeable for tunes? I noticed some slight differences in the 2012 version (I think I saw a couple functions that didn’t exist in my 2010 tunes) so I’m wondering if I will have to start from scratch in BE 2012 to edit my 2010 tune or create new ones.
Thanks for any info,
Scott
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:24 am

The tunes, themselves, should be version agnostic. The only thing that might would affect this is the encryption. If Clint, for some reason, changed the encryption method and didn't maintain backward compatibility, then that could cause a problem. However I'm not aware of that happening. But then again, I probably wouldn't since I don't deal with encrypted tunes.

What does seem to be more associated with BE versions is the def files. Newer def files don't seem to work as well on older BEs due to new features or reorganization of the def file. And while I think BE attempts to be backward compatible with older versions, some things just make that not possible.

One thing I've done since the beginning of my tuning experience is to always install tuning software in directories outside of the C:\Program Files\ directory and locate all my tunes and datalogs somewhere near where the installation folder is, if not, in the installation folder. I also alter the default installation folder name to include the BE version number. And if I was working with a beta version, I noted that it was an unreleased version in the title.

The benefit to this approach has been that I could have multiple BE versions installed simultaneously. Even if the installation of one wanted to uninstall the other, I get a backup before the install. Let the installer do whatever it wanted. Then manually restore whatever folders the installer screwed up. I've never liked the BE installer nor had faith that upgrading/updating the software wouldn't have some undesired side-effect. More often than not, something breaks. I loose my custom tables, payload choices, whatever. But it's nice when things like this happen to be able to just unzip whatever I was using prior and be right back where I was before the upgrade attempt.

I've talked with Clint about this. And I can tell that he's not really liked hearing this. But I do try to make it clear this has been my user experience. I'm not trying to be insulting or degrading of the product. But these are things that have happened. And they are frustrating and annoying when they do. And as a result, I've been very defensive about upgrading when there's no need to. I only upgrade when I need a new feature that isn't offered in the version of software that I have. Otherwise I tend to stick with what works. Perhaps things have gotten better in the past few years. But again, I wouldn't know given I don't make a habit of updating BE without a reason.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:20 am

Thanks for the reply- I only got BE 2012 recently because the laptop I had 2010 installed on (not a dongle) has been acting up and is ten years old now. I wanted to have the dongle (which only comes with BE 2012) so when this old laptop finally gives up the ghost I can still tune.
Scott
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:43 pm

Chris, I have been playing around with my new version (or at least what I think is newer) of BE and tonight when I wrote my tune to the car using the new version w/dongle, I got several error boxes popping up on scalars that apparently have the wrong values in them- when I look at the scalar in depth it reads something like "if using an older version of BE use XXXXX" instead of what is recommended for "enabled" or disabled" for example. Shown below, the scalar notes for "Z_OLSW" tell me "if using an older version of BE use 32 to enable" (in this case, forcing open loop which I normally do). I actually AM using that value it is recommending for older versions but it is still indicating an error. When I type "Enabled" in manually, it doesn't allow it (value is not numeric is the message). I am attaching a pic for reference- any idea why this might be happening? I am starting to think I didn't get the latest version(s) of BE when I purchased the dongle...

Scott
Attachments
IMG_3660.jpg
IMG_3660.jpg (119.09 KiB) Viewed 169 times
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:09 am

What version of BE and what strategy and version of def file are you using?
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 am

Couple screenshots attached here. Interestingly, the errors in the scalars are not there now when I just opened BE. The values seem to be correct now. I haven't tried to write the tune or hook up the QH but all I did was open BE to check the version. Odd...
Version 5.173, GUF1 based tune (from stock A9P)
Attachments
IMG_3662.jpg
IMG_3662.jpg (96.12 KiB) Viewed 149 times
IMG_3663.jpg
IMG_3663.jpg (78.24 KiB) Viewed 149 times
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:03 pm

Chris I noticed this morning that when I wrote the tune to the car it seemed to work fine- until I “read” the tune back and that’s when the errors/incorrect values appeared in about ten different scalars. I also noticed two “fuel base OL” tables, one an exact duplicate of the other. Not sure if something is corrupting the tune during the “write” or maybe the “read”.
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:22 pm

The only thing I can think that I could be of assistance with is having you post up whatever problematic tune you have for me to see if the same thing occurs for me (or anybody else willing to open it).

What's odd though is you write the tune in good condition, then read it back, and things are different than how you wrote them. That seems "bad."

To know if the problem is on the read or write, you'd need to read multiple times and see if you consistently read the same thing. If you consistently read the same data, then the problem isn't likely on the read. Or if it is, it's not garbled communication. It's something that's consistent and reproducible.

Then move on to testing writes. Determine if you consistently write/read the same thing.

Knowing the results of those tests could help narrow down whether the problem occurs on the read or write.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Wed May 22, 2019 2:13 pm

Yes that was going to be my plan as well- to see if it keeps happening (so far it has three consecutive times after “reads”). Does Clint still lurk in here at all? I hate to bother him about stuff like this but it may come to that. I don’t see any other issues just the 8-10 scalars that have “error” values on the “read” that weren’t there in the write. As you mention, very odd. Oh and the duplicate fuel table but that wasn’t there the last time I did this.
Luckily I still have BE 2010 on my old laptop but it would be nice to be able to use the dongle on my brand new one! The old laptop has to be plugged in or it only lasts about an hour if that. It is also making funny noises when it gets tilted like the fan is hitting something inside it lol.
I can post my tune when I’m back home.
Thanks,
Scott
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm

If you don't figure out what the problem is, be sure to follow up with your *.bin that's causing problems. Without that, we are just guessing at things for you to try.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:34 pm

cgrey8 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm
If you don't figure out what the problem is, be sure to follow up with your *.bin that's causing problems. Without that, we are just guessing at things for you to try.
Attached here (I hope) is the tune in question...
Attachments
StreetTune 5-21-19 BE 2012.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Thu May 23, 2019 5:56 am

I opened your tune with my GUF1 and it doesn't show any problems. No red error boxes and none of the values that I looked around at seemed out of sorts. I didn't do a deep dive looking. It was literally just check the things you screencapped and take a quick glance over all the tables and see if the values seemed reasonable. I probably should've done a compare with an A9P.bin, but I didn't think to do that before walking out the door to work.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Thu May 23, 2019 6:27 am

Chris thanks for looking at it. I’m stumped- the tune seems fine until it gets written to the car. Perhaps I will reach out to
Clint tomsee if he can set up a remote connection to my laptop (I think he’s done that in the last when I had other issues).
Part of me wants to write the tune to the car and actually drive it to see if there really are errors but I worry the “error” scalars could be a disaster when driving. I also have another almost brand new laptop that I can plug the dongle into and see if this happens in that as well (can’t hurt to try that I guess). It’s almost as if something is indicating I have an older version of BE but only on those 8-10 random scalars with the older Numeric values in place if whatever the newer values are supposed to end. Very bizarre that when working in the tune and sacing it everything is fine until reading the “write” back.
Thanks,
Scott
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Fri May 24, 2019 4:09 pm

Chris I’ve emailed Clint about this and he is looking into it.
Thanks,
Scott
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by cgrey8 » Fri May 24, 2019 8:27 pm

Don't forget to followup with what you find out this is.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Mixing tunes between BE versions?

Post by scott88 » Sun May 26, 2019 5:37 pm

Update- it seems like this is an issue with reading tunes in my BE 2012/single set up. No other issues really. I’m not sure if Clint will have the time to look into it, but it’s not a huge problem for me as I really don’t need to read my tune anyway. I wrote one from scratch in BE 2012 and sent it to the car and drove around data logging just fine today. Values seemed right where I put them. As soon as I got back and read the tune front eh car,
Errors and all zeros in the values. Doesn’t match what is in the tune, however.
I’ll post back with any updates, or if I hear back from Clint.
88 Mustang LX, Moates QH w/A9P-based calibration, T-5, LM-1 Wideband & Vortech S-trim w/8 lbs, Crane 2031 camshaft, AFR 185 heads, some other goodies.

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