Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

BinaryEditor and EEC Analyzer are both packed with awesome features, but if you can think of another cool feature to aide in EEC Tuning or some improvement to an existing feature, cough it up here.

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svojohn
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Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by svojohn » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:19 am

How difficult would it be to add the auto tuning feature to a VE table? Here's a screen capture of the table in question: http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/ ... stable.jpg

DRHaulsee
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by DRHaulsee » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:37 am

This is something those of us doing speed density tuning REALLY need. I'd doing SD now on 2.3 turbo platforms and really love it. It would sure be a lot simpler with this tool.
1976 ASC Capri R/S X-pack 2.3 Turbo T5 8UA, QH 1.6, A/W IC, 46 pph Injectors, Speed Density, Boport 1.5, Stinger Header
1976 Capri 2.3 Folvo Turbo T5 LA3 QH 1.6, Speed Density, 72 pph injectors

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by 88xr4 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:24 pm

I'm in the same boat as other's with the SD tuning on the 2.3T platform. It would help greatly to get that fine tuning nailed down.

IF, a big IF, this were to happen in BE, I think we would need a WB shift of some sort as with EEC Analzyer. For my setup I have to shift all the cells by 9. I could only imagine things going completely haywire in the tune without that WB shift.

Another plus is there are a TONS more people looking into the QH/BE setup vs. Megasquirt. With an Autotune feature for speed density I feel that BE would be a step above Megasquirt as far as ease of tuning :D
99 5.0 AWD Mercury Mountaineer- Daily Driver
93 Lx vert- needs some attention. Plan to drop a 2.3T engine into it.
88 Xr4ti-Sold

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by WhiteLX » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:44 am

88xr4 wrote:
IF, a big IF, this were to happen in BE, I think we would need a WB shift of some sort as with EEC Analzyer. For my setup I have to shift all the cells by 9. I could only imagine things going completely haywire in the tune without that WB shift.
where is your wideband placed? i am wondering if this is one reason I get some crazy VE numbers while trying to tune the SD setup. I have my wideband placed just after the downpipe turns horizontal. I'm not using any shift, and I'm sure that I should be, I just don't know how to figure it out.

I would love to see a self-tuning feature of some kind. These cars run so much better with the SD hack it's not funny.
1986 Merkur XR4Ti
2.3L turbo, crower 5.5" rods, Wiseco 8:1 pistons, ported/big valve head, gutted/ported intake, ported E6 manifold, T04e-44/T3 stgIII @ 21psi, NPR intercooler, Forge 004 BOV, T5 trans, PF3 ECU, VAM to SD conv. 3bar MAP, 55lb injectors, QH, BE, DataQ DI-148U, PLX SM-AFR

1992 Mustang 5.0L notch
stock shortblock, TTI single turbo 60-1 @ 14psi, GT40 irons, Crane 2031, Performer intake, 42lb injectors, A9L, QH, BE,LC-1

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by tiresmoke69 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:35 am

My tbird is running great with the SD setup! Having an autotune option would definitely put BE a step above the MS system. :bananadance:

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by DRHaulsee » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:22 am

WhiteLX wrote: These cars run so much better with the SD hack it's not funny.
Yeah, I was one of the non-beleivers. I clung to the MAF conversion because I had reasonable success with it. Then I went to a larger turbo on the Folvo and a Boport 1.5 on the other car. I couldn't hold a tune to save me.

Out of desperation I went to the SD hack. The difference was night and day. The cars were stable. I could change things and they responded in a reasonable and rationale manner. I'm sold on SD for the 2.3 turbo's. I just wish we had a better tool to optimize the air multiplier.
1976 ASC Capri R/S X-pack 2.3 Turbo T5 8UA, QH 1.6, A/W IC, 46 pph Injectors, Speed Density, Boport 1.5, Stinger Header
1976 Capri 2.3 Folvo Turbo T5 LA3 QH 1.6, Speed Density, 72 pph injectors

decipha

Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by decipha » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:49 pm

what problems do maf give you?

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svojohn
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by svojohn » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:49 pm

decipha wrote:what problems do maf give you?
Electrical noise is the most common problem but keep in mind the 2.3T ecu is not a maf based ecu. There's no dedicated input for the maf signal return, the return is shared with all the other sensors. Also the stock code does not filter/average the maf signal as found on the maf based ecu's. Another issue is backflow through the meter which causes the engine to stall on decel. Over the years custom code was implemented to help solve some of these issues. Currently some people are able to make maf work while others just have no luck with it.

The speed density version does not seem to suffer from any of the above mentioned issues.

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by DRHaulsee » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:42 pm

I second what John said. I was able to make the MAF 2.3 hack work for a year until I changed the intake configurations. Evidently the larger turbo (T3 to T4) introduced enough swirl in the MAF to make readings flucuate wildly. The car went from a reasonable driver to a jerking and stalling nightmare.

I'd tune the MAF curve one day and get it better. The next day I'd have to go back where I started.

As I said, I went to the Speed Density hack as a last resort. I was ready to move onto MS. John's speed density code is sooooooo nice.
1976 ASC Capri R/S X-pack 2.3 Turbo T5 8UA, QH 1.6, A/W IC, 46 pph Injectors, Speed Density, Boport 1.5, Stinger Header
1976 Capri 2.3 Folvo Turbo T5 LA3 QH 1.6, Speed Density, 72 pph injectors

decipha

Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by decipha » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:51 pm

who not upgrade to a newer ecu?

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by onesillynotch » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:51 am

this would be pretty sick! i been running the SD code since the start of it on a la3
2.3T Notchback
LA2 BE/QH currently running SD on E85
11.6@116 on street tired road race car on medium boost

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svojohn
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by svojohn » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Any word from Clint? :dunno: I'd like to know what's needed to get this ball rolling?

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by EDS50 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:30 pm

svojohn wrote:Any word from Clint? :dunno: I'd like to know what's needed to get this ball rolling?
I will send him an email linking him to this thread so he can take a look see.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by 86GT » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:59 pm

I have not really given this much thought since most of the processors are Mass air. I do have a calculation in EA that can calculate a map based on VE and the KAMRFs.

decipha

Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by decipha » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:12 pm

will there be any implementation in place to manipulate the scaling on the calculated tables in EA? that's a peeve that has irked me for some time

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86GT
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by 86GT » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:30 pm

you can double click the headers to change them

GTPROTOTYPE
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by GTPROTOTYPE » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:30 pm

I'm new to this MSG board, but I currently
a similar setup and also a QuarterHorse ready
to be installed. Auto tune would be a great
addition .
89 XR4Ti
2.3 turbo PF3 on LA3 Speed Density J3 chip [SVOJohn setup]
Soon to be installed Quarterhorse

David Claflin
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by David Claflin » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:59 pm

I'd be appreciative of this as well. I've converted my 90LX to use a DB1 processor, and have it working well, but can't get the EEC analyzer to use the datalogs, having an autotune would work wonders.
1990 LX/DA1/stock cobra shortblock, special cam :P , ported GT40 intakes, ported explorer heads, accufab longtubes/ 4.30/ T5 7.49@91
1985 LTD LX, A9P,347, even more special cam, 205 11R heads, TFS-R intake, 1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, 4R70W trans, mach 1 brakes.

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86GT
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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by 86GT » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:20 pm

Auto tuning brings liability to me which i do not want to do. If you can not get EA to work with the log, what is EA saying for an error message and are you logging all f the correct things that EA requires for the calculations.

decipha

Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by decipha » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:28 am

doesn't BE already have a maf auto tune?

won't a simple disclaimer suffice?

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by LeadHead » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:30 pm

The MAF autotune works pretty well too - even with factory HEGOs. The only problem is when it makes a big change, it can accidentally put a smaller MAF value on top of a lower one, which gets an EEC-IV very, very upset.

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Re: Auto Tuning for Speed Density Users

Post by 86GT » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:09 pm

Yest it is there but the issue is some vehicles shut the injectors off during decel and this plays havoc on the Measured AFR which is used for feedback.

There is way to many variations to try and cover them all.

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