408W F1A low number ...

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alexsvt
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408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:57 pm

Hi ,

I have a 408W , built bottom end , AFR head , BA3000 maf , LU80 , F1A intercooled .

In a \WOT run , I start to loose power as soon the LoadX hit 199 , but actual load is 160. This should make lots of power but I reach only 9psi of boost.
Last edited by alexsvt on Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LeadHead
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by LeadHead » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:32 pm

Do have a wideband? If so, why isn't it being datalogged? Do you still have the factory HEGOs installed?

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:24 pm

200 load is max for load and loadx. You will need to scale your tune to bring the load and load x down. Your maf transfer is not linear, injector settings are way off for what your running and I wouldn't expect to make much power with 14 degrees of timing at wot. You have sarchg scaled but not your injector settings.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

decipha

Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by decipha » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:52 pm

perload doesn't matter it can clip 200 with no ill effect, load would cause an issue at 200 as it could cause the ecu to go into crank mode, no worries since your at 160 load

sounds like you just need to dial it in

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:45 pm

Little update .

I changed the intercooler for a Procharger Vertical . Pull hard way more now . I also installed a PMAS HPX in the pipe. At 4000rpm I was at 4.8 with the BA3000.

So now those limitation are behind , I have a lean issue at 4500+ . fuel pressure is strong 50psi , Inj DC is 57% , Maf is at 4.3V .

Yes 14deg of timing is low but, when the fuel will be straightened I will add some.
WOT5 F1A HPX.csv
(382.66 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
S0Z F1A 80lb HPX 408W.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
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alexsvt
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:43 pm

better with scaled , but i'm running out of pump . A1000 at 48psi w/o Vaccum and I hit 100% DC at 14psi of boost / 5000rpm .
S0Z F1A 80lb HPX 408W scaled WOT 7.csv
(174.23 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:20 pm

100 DC on what? The injectors? Something isn't right with your tune if you went from 57 to 100%. I have not downloaded your tunes to compare (having issues with latest BE update) so tell us what's changed.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

alexsvt
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:50 pm

skunk wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:20 pm
100 DC on what? The injectors? Something isn't right with your tune if you went from 57 to 100%. I have not downloaded your tunes to compare (having issues with latest BE update) so tell us what's changed.

John
Scaled 55% , minor correction on the maf transfer . Nothing more . The WOT multiplier don't help to keep the AFR in line , and I can't see actual fuel pressure so I assume the pressure drop with the rpm .

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:22 pm

Just took a peek at the last log you posted...... It appears you have NOT scaled your tune far enough. Load is hitting 199 at 4.4 MAFV and 4600 RPM. Your running out of injector at the same MAFV at 5000 RPM likely due to hitting the 200 load clip along with the fact your trying to tune a cold engine....150 deg ECT is going to need more fuel. I would throw at minimum a 180 stat in there. I run mine with a 195, no intercooler, 10-12 psi boost and a conservative 18-20 deg timing WOT.

I still have not seen your tune but I suspect your injector settings are off and you jacked the MAF to compensate.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:50 pm

skunk wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:22 pm
Just took a peek at the last log you posted...... It appears you have NOT scaled your tune far enough. Load is hitting 199 at 4.4 MAFV and 4600 RPM. Your running out of injector at the same MAFV at 5000 RPM likely due to hitting the 200 load clip along with the fact your trying to tune a cold engine....150 deg ECT is going to need more fuel. I would throw at minimum a 180 stat in there. I run mine with a 195, no intercooler, 10-12 psi boost and a conservative 18-20 deg timing WOT.

I still have not seen your tune but I suspect your injector settings are off and you jacked the MAF to compensate.

John
Just food for thought. A faulty ECT or ACT will default to 150 degrees in the bin as the factory setting.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm

Ed I suppose its possible its either faulty or its not mounted in the stock location effecting the reading. It seems to run 144 to 152.....either way it will effect fuel.

I was able to get the tune loaded. First thing you NEED to fix is ROM1: System - Checksum Base Address. Set it back to 8192. Next move your SARCHG: System - Engine Displacement (CID) up to 408. Then multiply your HS, LS, BP and MAF Flow by 0.7 to get you under the 2300 kg/hr clip your hitting. If you wanted to disable the purge valve you need to set the min RPM high....Ive set mine to 9999 rpm, Setting it to zero like you have will keep it active.

Start with that, see if things improve then you can move forward..... keep an eye on fuel and timing to make sure they still align.... go easy on it till your comfortable.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:22 pm

Hey John. I was assuming it was stuck on 150 and not moving.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

alexsvt
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:21 am

skunk wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm
Ed I suppose its possible its either faulty or its not mounted in the stock location effecting the reading. It seems to run 144 to 152.....either way it will effect fuel.

I was able to get the tune loaded. First thing you NEED to fix is ROM1: System - Checksum Base Address. Set it back to 8192. Next move your SARCHG: System - Engine Displacement (CID) up to 408. Then multiply your HS, LS, BP and MAF Flow by 0.7 to get you under the 2300 kg/hr clip your hitting. If you wanted to disable the purge valve you need to set the min RPM high....Ive set mine to 9999 rpm, Setting it to zero like you have will keep it active.

Start with that, see if things improve then you can move forward..... keep an eye on fuel and timing to make sure they still align.... go easy on it till your comfortable.

John
Thanks John to have take a look .

I ve been told to never change checksum number . Why it s now 0 , I don't really know I started from a scratch tune. What is involved to have a checksum error ?

Hi and low slope before scaling are 101 and 75 , 408 ci , those multiplied by .55 give you the number I have. Maf is a HPX in a 3.5in tube .

Here the outside temp is 30deg at this time , The three row radiator and the fan continuously running doesn't help to raise the engine temp.

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 am

Are you using a QuarterHorse or Tweecer? The checksum values are different between the two.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:38 pm

QH with BE .

I did a run with the base Checksum corrected , raised the ECT to 172 . Still peg the loadx at 4200 and load at 5000.

I used the same scaling factor for the engine ci, slope and maf transfer. I didn't have to hack the mtf to be close to the target .

I took the highest maf reading from the hpx datasheet and divided by the max kg/hr the pcm can read ( 17**) to find my correction factor , and applied to scale the tune.

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:38 pm

Installed a gopro under the hood , Fuel pressure is not raising as the boost rise . barely keep 45psi and should be around 65 at the end .

No pre-filter at the pump ... and it s a rear sump fuel tank so all debris can be catch by the fuel pump . This is a no no ...

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:33 pm

Do you have a 1:1 adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:47 pm

EDS50 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:33 pm
Do you have a 1:1 adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
Yep , Aeromotive 13101

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by EDS50 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:00 pm

I'm assuming that you have a good vac. reference? Automotive pump and filter?
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:10 pm

EDS50 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:00 pm
I'm assuming that you have a good vac. reference? Automotive pump and filter?

No doubpt for the vaccum ref, all nylon hose with quick connect. The problem is there is no filter before the pump . I saw that when I crowled under the car to clean the pre-filter and change the post-filter. I'm sure the issues is there to pegg the injector .

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 pm

EDS50 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 am
Are you using a QuarterHorse or Tweecer? The checksum values are different between the two.
Thanks ED....I had no Idea. I do find it strange that QH would want to try and write part of the checksum in short term memory location. I would think it would throw off the feedback loop.
alexsvt wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:38 pm
QH with BE .

I did a run with the base Checksum corrected , raised the ECT to 172 . Still peg the loadx at 4200 and load at 5000.

I used the same scaling factor for the engine ci, slope and maf transfer. I didn't have to hack the mtf to be close to the target .

I took the highest maf reading from the hpx datasheet and divided by the max kg/hr the pcm can read ( 17**) to find my correction factor , and applied to scale the tune.
Do you mean you raised the default ECT or you got the engine warmer? 172 actual temperature is still too cold. Dont worry about LoadX yet it will fall into place when you fix Load.

Ok your somewhat correct on your scaling if airflow fitting was your only concern....to address LOAD you need to raise CID. Set it back to 408 and see where you are. If its still pegging airflow....you need to reduce MAF, Slopes and Breakpoint.....the more you lower these numbers Load will continue to drop leaving CID alone. Either way....you will need to go back and adjust other parts of your tune to coincide with your new Load values.

Looks like you may have found a mechanical issue so addressing that first may solve the rest of your issues.
John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

alexsvt
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by alexsvt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:42 pm

skunk wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 pm
EDS50 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 am
Are you using a QuarterHorse or Tweecer? The checksum values are different between the two.
Thanks ED....I had no Idea. I do find it strange that QH would want to try and write part of the checksum in short term memory location. I would think it would throw off the feedback loop.
alexsvt wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:38 pm
QH with BE .

I did a run with the base Checksum corrected , raised the ECT to 172 . Still peg the loadx at 4200 and load at 5000.

I used the same scaling factor for the engine ci, slope and maf transfer. I didn't have to hack the mtf to be close to the target .

I took the highest maf reading from the hpx datasheet and divided by the max kg/hr the pcm can read ( 17**) to find my correction factor , and applied to scale the tune.
Do you mean you raised the default ECT or you got the engine warmer? 172 actual temperature is still too cold. Dont worry about LoadX yet it will fall into place when you fix Load.

Ok your somewhat correct on your scaling if airflow fitting was your only concern....to address LOAD you need to raise CID. Set it back to 408 and see where you are. If its still pegging airflow....you need to reduce MAF, Slopes and Breakpoint.....the more you lower these numbers Load will continue to drop leaving CID alone. Either way....you will need to go back and adjust other parts of your tune to coincide with your new Load values.

Looks like you may have found a mechanical issue so addressing that first may solve the rest of your issues.
John
no no , I just shut the fan off and wait the engine got warmer . I was very exited that the checksum error could be the source of my problem but , really need to fix that mechanical issues before going higher in rpm .

Did I read that you scale your tune by raise the slope and let the displacement actual ? What is the side effect to work that way ? This remember me the 03-04 cobra bp modifier .

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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:13 pm

No, you did it correctly for dealing with the airflow clip. But does nothing for the 200 load clip.

To deal with the 200 Load clip you need to raise the Cubic Inch Displacement (Sarchrg). I find it easier to set this to actual (408) then adjust slopes, BP and MAF down until I am below 200 Load.

That will usually take care of both the airflow and the Load clip at the same time. Doesn't matter what your working with...concept is the same.

Fix your fuel problem first..... double check those quick connects .....if the nylon tube isn't cut square or is deformed from not using a proper cutter it will come loose or leak.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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skunk
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Re: 408W F1A low number ...

Post by skunk » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 am

I realized you were asking about something I said in another post.

In that thread I was referring to making use of the calibrated MAF without touching anything else in regards to the injectors or CID. The calibrated Maf is already scaling load and airflow in your tune so increasing the slopes, Breakpoint and MAF will reduce the scaling factor......so no I'll effects since it's exactly what you are doing already. I find it's easier to work up and avoid hitting any clips. It also helps you to see how changes to air tract have effected things as well as the accuracy of the calibrated Maf.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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