Truck aplications?

Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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joethemechanic
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Truck aplications?

Post by joethemechanic » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:58 am

Hi, I am a newbie to eec tuning, been tuning chevys and aftermarket stuff for years now so please bear with me :roll: .

I have a project coming up that I need to make a jugment call on.
It is a mid 90's F350 truck that will be getting a 520 stroker 460 ( I tried to get him to do the 557 but he chickened out for fear of added machining costs :evil: )

The last hopped up 460 I did I just grafted an aftermarket e.c.u. to a cut off EEC-IV connecter and mounted it all back in the case, worked awesome.

Howerver, if it is possible, this time I want to take a crack at building a custom chip. Problem is I cant find a DEF. file anywhere for the trucks. I am thinking it must be close to the early non-MAF mustangs, but cant find any info to verify this.

I know the TWEECER will do it, but that thing will cost more than either of the other two options.
Thanks,
Joe
....I see stupid people, they are everywhere, but they don't know they are stupid.....

joethemechanic
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Post by joethemechanic » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:39 pm

..........Anyone??????........

Ok, new aproach, could someone point me in the right direction for building my own def file, or ( prefurably ) some one who could do it for me??
....I see stupid people, they are everywhere, but they don't know they are stupid.....

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boss96
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Post by boss96 » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:33 am

It's hard to tell what exactly you want since at the end of your post you say "the tweecer will do what I want but it's expensive". So how do you plan to "burn a chip", using what software?
Bob
96 GT, Vortech Si trim,Procharger 3 core intercooler, forged bottom end, MAC longtubes, ported PI heads , Edelbrock intake, Crower cams-.580lift/234dur@.050, 80lb injectors, CDAN4/GGL4 processor.

joethemechanic
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Post by joethemechanic » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:43 pm

So how do you plan to "burn a chip", using what software?
Bob
Good question, let Me clarify :oops: :
I have a Moates " BURN 1 " with all required hardware for " chipping " a ford ECU.

In fact I just pulled the BIN file from the requisate ECU. I am a bit ignorant on the ford ECU designations but I think this one is a " Z2Z " but I am not quite sure if I am reading the correct number.

I have EECeditor and Tunerpro software, as well as Tunercat.
EECeditor has quite a few DEF files for mustangs, I tried loading and interprating My BIN file through : GUFA, GUFB, GUFC, LA3 and CBAZA DEF file hoping that as these are older EEC-IV aplications possibly some of the tables would match up. I was not too hopefull as all but GUFB were indicated as MAF units.
In any case with GUFB only the rev limmiter looked even close, however I don't trust it as most of the other stuff was not correct.

So what I am hoping for is some help getting or creating a propper DEF file.
Another option is to get an EEC-IV DEF file for a non-MAF ECU and buy that particular ECU.
It appears I have an uphill battle as there is not much support for the truck stuff!
Thanks Bob

Joe
....I see stupid people, they are everywhere, but they don't know they are stupid.....

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boss96
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Post by boss96 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:23 am

Well, sorry to say, Joe, that the hardware/software you are using is not supported here in the tweecer bbs since we deal with the tweecer :)
You need to contact your hardware supplier, etc, to get some help.
Bob
96 GT, Vortech Si trim,Procharger 3 core intercooler, forged bottom end, MAC longtubes, ported PI heads , Edelbrock intake, Crower cams-.580lift/234dur@.050, 80lb injectors, CDAN4/GGL4 processor.

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Post by Jon 94GT » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:30 am

boss96 wrote:Well, sorry to say, Joe, that the hardware/software you are using is not supported here in the tweecer bbs since we deal with the tweecer :)
You need to contact your hardware supplier, etc, to get some help.
Bob
It's been a while since this was the 'tweecer bbs'...please don't run him off :). Although there isn't much info on the Moates hardware here, so I would also suggest looking at http://www.moates.net/ if no one chimes in.
:: Owner and operator of EECTuning.org ::

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Post by codedout » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:50 am

try looking here

http://www.moates.net/zips/boothware/

I use Eec Editor and TunerPro, I edit the bin in one of these 2 programs then use Caledit to load the bin into tweecer and calcon to datalog.

You may have to get Mark at tuner pro OR Paul at boothware to make you a def file if you cant find one.
Mike
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T4M0/CBAZA, 331 10.5:1, 30#inj, Prof Prod 70mm TB, Typhoon intake, E303 cam, HPP210 heads, x-pipe, shorties, tweecer, tunerpro, ProM MAF, MSD Blaster& Dist, flowmasters, Holley 255lph, Scorpion 1.6RR, AEM WB,UD Pull,KYB GR2, Granatelli upr lwr.

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Post by Dale McPeters » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:49 pm

joethemechanic wrote:
So how do you plan to "burn a chip", using what software?
Bob
Good question, let Me clarify :oops: :
I have a Moates " BURN 1 " with all required hardware for " chipping " a ford ECU.

In fact I just pulled the BIN file from the requisate ECU. I am a bit ignorant on the ford ECU designations but I think this one is a " Z2Z " but I am not quite sure if I am reading the correct number.

I have EECeditor and Tunerpro software, as well as Tunercat.
EECeditor has quite a few DEF files for mustangs, I tried loading and interprating My BIN file through : GUFA, GUFB, GUFC, LA3 and CBAZA DEF file hoping that as these are older EEC-IV aplications possibly some of the tables would match up. I was not too hopefull as all but GUFB were indicated as MAF units.
In any case with GUFB only the rev limmiter looked even close, however I don't trust it as most of the other stuff was not correct.

So what I am hoping for is some help getting or creating a propper DEF file.
Another option is to get an EEC-IV DEF file for a non-MAF ECU and buy that particular ECU.
It appears I have an uphill battle as there is not much support for the truck stuff!
Thanks Bob

Joe
Joe,

Send me the binary file that you have and let me take a look at it and
see if I have one that is close. Send to - mcpetedl at grandecom dot net .
You can also download a disassembler on the yahoo eectuner list that John Worthington posted that works fairly well for disassembling the binary file to make your own definition file if you are into that type of thing.

If I do not have something that is close you can contact Paul and he can probably build you a preliminary definition file for cheap...
'88GT, T-Top (Being rebuilt)-Moates Hardware waiting....
BE & EEC Analyzer
'93 Teal Cobra-Moates Hardware
Paul's EEC-Editor

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Post by JuiceSC » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:47 pm

I would use an A9* family processor for ease of tuning, but I'm wondering how big you need to go on injectors for that monster. (can't run low impedance injectors with the A9*) As for truck application, the tweecer gives you total control over the computer, so you can tune it to whatever vehicle you put it into.
91 GT, A9P/A9M, E cam, windsor jr, systemax II, 75mm tb, AFP, 75mm Pro M, 42#, Vortech S trim, GT40 crate 5.0, BBK catted X, flows, Tremec 3550, Pro 5.0, 3.55s, global west 800/160 springs, koni yellows, front swaybar, panhard bar.

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Re: Truck aplications?

Post by fordfreak95 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:45 pm

joethemechanic wrote:Hi, I am a newbie to eec tuning, been tuning chevys and aftermarket stuff for years now so please bear with me :roll: .

I have a project coming up that I need to make a jugment call on.
It is a mid 90's F350 truck that will be getting a 520 stroker 460 ( I tried to get him to do the 557 but he chickened out for fear of added machining costs :evil: )

The last hopped up 460 I did I just grafted an aftermarket e.c.u. to a cut off EEC-IV connecter and mounted it all back in the case, worked awesome.

Howerver, if it is possible, this time I want to take a crack at building a custom chip. Problem is I cant find a DEF. file anywhere for the trucks. I am thinking it must be close to the early non-MAF mustangs, but cant find any info to verify this.

I know the TWEECER will do it, but that thing will cost more than either of the other two options.
Thanks,
Joe
You will have a heck of a time doing anything with a Non MAF Ford truck ECM and that motor. The Ford speed density uses a MAP sensor. It outputs a signal in HZ I believe not a Volt output like General Motors speed density set ups. You have to run a VERY mild cam. You could try the EFI ECM from a Ford 460 truck but it is Speed Density and probably not suported by any tuner I know and that meens no BIN for it.

You could also try the 93-95 SVT Lightning ECM files as they were all speed density from the factory.
Strategy LHBLO for ECM codes ICY1,C3P2 and the C3P1 strategy for the C3P1 ECM.
95 Lightning, 393 N/A stroker, A9L Mass Air ECM, LM-1 wide band, Tweecer base v1.30B3, A9L EEC strategy.

joethemechanic
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Post by joethemechanic » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:30 am

Wow, Thanks Guys !

I was refered to this forum by the Moates web site,
and was unaware that this was a Tweecer-only forum.

Thanks for all of the help though!

Dale, I will attempt to e-mail you the BIN file i pulled from the stock ECU.

JuiceSC, as for injectors I belive that We ordered some 42lb/hr units, should be plenty, I just hope I can idle them down enough for a clean idle/cruise.

And as for the cam, yea, its a small one. 210 @ .050 Comp If memory serves me. We used this cam on another 460 with great results. pulled like a freight train off idle and pulled hard to 4500 rpm. That guy out pulled every POWERSTROKE he met!
This is going in a towing rig, so as pitifull as " pulled hard to 4500 rpm " sounds its the low end torque that matters here!
Thanks again
Joe
....I see stupid people, they are everywhere, but they don't know they are stupid.....

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Post by JuiceSC » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:05 am

I hope 42's are big enough for that setup. But you shouldn't have any drivability/idle issues with 42's. Its been my experience that the cam selection can create more of an idle headache then dialing in 42# injectors. But since your building a torque monster, your cam should give you a good smooth idle with lots of vacuum. :wink:
91 GT, A9P/A9M, E cam, windsor jr, systemax II, 75mm tb, AFP, 75mm Pro M, 42#, Vortech S trim, GT40 crate 5.0, BBK catted X, flows, Tremec 3550, Pro 5.0, 3.55s, global west 800/160 springs, koni yellows, front swaybar, panhard bar.

joethemechanic
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Post by joethemechanic » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:11 am

Well, for anyone interested in big cubes and low rpm's, here is an update:

Due to time constraints I elected to mount a D.I.Y. ECU inside the EEC-IV case as I did in the past. For anyone interested in such a system check out
MSEFI dot com and search the MS&Se link > ford tfi.

The 520 pulls like a freight train from idle to 4500 r.p.m., it made 425 ftlbs of torque and 290 hp at the wheel on a Flowmaster chasis Dyno. to put these numbers into perspactive, the ONLY other engine that has posted numbers even close was a supercrarged bigblock chevy with a 1000cfm T.B.I. unit on top of the blower. The 520 ford eats its lunch everywhere exept the last 500 rpm where the BBC makes 10 more h.p.

A couple of things to note however,as I predicted the stock 460 52 m.m. throttle bores are too small ( I tried to get the Guy to buy a bigger unit but he declined ) the motor starts to run out of throttle body at ~3600 RPM. No doubt the H.P. numbers would climb on this thing with a bigger throttle body.

I was wrong about the injectors We ordered, We ended up ordering 36lb/hr Accell units, and as it turnes out they are just about perfect for this motor. Under full load I am seing about 68-72% duty cycle at 4500 RPM. with a larger T.B. the D.C. will climb some but there is still some headroom.

Testing and tuning was done on a Flowmaster Dyno at 4500ft. elev.
This dyno reads 10-15% lower than most Dynojet units.
For comparison, The shop owner built his nephew a 418 windsor with full roller cam, A.F.R. C.N.C. ported heads, Edelbrock ProFlow injection with costom injectors, 11.0 to 1 C.R. Zero decked block , headers..... etc. etc. ( this thing was built as a no holds barred ultimate street engine )

this was the first car on the dyno, it reported 380 w.h.p. @ 6500 r.p.m. and 380 ftlbs of torque somewhere in the mid range.

So we are quite happy with the 520! figure ~ 370 h.p. ( 400+ with a propper throttle body ) and ~550+ ftlbs at the crank.

One other interesting quirk, this motor was Zero-decked, Meaning that the blocks deck surface was machined down ( about .025" ) to bring the pistons to the top of the bore and provide the propper quench.
Where Most Bigblock tuners will tell ya that a 460 ( or 454 for that matter ) NEEDS 38-45 degrees total timing, this thing made its best power at ~30 degrees!! That is fast burn small block territory. This means that the late model 460 heads have awesome combustion chambers.

I still have not givven up on " Chipping " the stock ECU, Paul Booth is kindly offering some support. I will keep You all posted.

Thanks again, Joe
....I see stupid people, they are everywhere, but they don't know they are stupid.....

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Post by Mudog715 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:48 am

I'm running a heavily-modified 460 with a 1996 460 EEC-V processor that is MASS-AIR and SFI and also runs the E4OD tranny! This processor is factory calibrated for 80mm MAF and 24# injectors. The 80mm MAF that was stock for the engine was also used on early 90's Mark VIII's and are easy to find. I use a twEECer to tune mine, but this processor also supports internal flashing. The computer strategy is 'AGANN' and the catch code for this app is FEZ2. The processor and stragegy is used on other 1996-1997 F-series trucks with pushrod motors and mass air (CA/MA emmissions) and are plentiful at junkyards or $179 new from Ford. Any of the catch codes will work from the "family" (ie. 5.0L or 5.8L) if you use a twEECer to start with the 460 (ie FEZ2) program. I can feed you some part #s if you'd like.

I've learned a LOT about tuning this EEC-V strategy, especially fine-tuning fuel, spark, idle quality, tranny shifting, load calculations and disabling appropriate emmissions. I would be happy to share what I have learned. I am looking for advice on timing and fuel fine-tuning. The motor pulls cleanly to 5,200+ rpm if I let it (a far cry from the stock 4,200rpm upshift points and 4,500rpm redline), but doesn't feel like it's making the 500hp and 575ft-lbs the heads & cam combo should be making.

BTW, joethemechanic, I PM'd you also...
-Mudog

1967 Kaiser-Jeep M-715 '5-Quarter' Army truck
521 stroker, 9.5:1, ported F3 heads 2.19/1.76, 278/284 Hyd Roller Cam, Banks headers, 2x62mm TB, 90LMAF, 60#Dekas
EEC-V (FOU1-CNAB1) mass-air/SFI/OBD2, integral EDIS w/ custom CKP & CID sensors, twEECer RT
E4OD heavily modified, 2200rpm stall triple lock billet

gearhead143
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Post by gearhead143 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:37 am

Mudog715, I am also working on a 460. I have the stategy but cant find the bin file. Could you send me a copy of the FEZ2 bin?

email me at johnsonengineserv@msn.com

micwizy24
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Re:

Post by micwizy24 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:08 pm

Mudog715 wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:48 am
I'm running a heavily-modified 460 with a 1996 460 EEC-V processor that is MASS-AIR and SFI and also runs the E4OD tranny! This processor is factory calibrated for 80mm MAF and 24# injectors. The 80mm MAF that was stock for the engine was also used on early 90's Mark VIII's and are easy to find. I use a twEECer to tune mine, but this processor also supports internal flashing. The computer strategy is 'AGANN' and the catch code for this app is FEZ2. The processor and stragegy is used on other 1996-1997 F-series trucks with pushrod motors and mass air (CA/MA emmissions) and are plentiful at junkyards or $179 new from Ford. Any of the catch codes will work from the "family" (ie. 5.0L or 5.8L) if you use a twEECer to start with the 460 (ie FEZ2) program. I can feed you some part #s if you'd like.

I've learned a LOT about tuning this EEC-V strategy, especially fine-tuning fuel, spark, idle quality, tranny shifting, load calculations and disabling appropriate emmissions. I would be happy to share what I have learned. I am looking for advice on timing and fuel fine-tuning. The motor pulls cleanly to 5,200+ rpm if I let it (a far cry from the stock 4,200rpm upshift points and 4,500rpm redline), but doesn't feel like it's making the 500hp and 575ft-lbs the heads & cam combo should be making.

BTW, joethemechanic, I PM'd you also...
Mudog715 are you still around I need some info from you on tuning

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