Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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ChsReb
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Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:00 pm

Question 1.) Are all of the following functions active in CBAZA? FN1361,371,825A,826A,1862D, and 1862N
Question 2.) What is the best way to adjust for Drive engagement stalls cold, and/or Surging in Drive while cold? I've made changes in FN 371,825A and 826A but they don't seem to be improving things.

The engine starts and idles just fine. (Maybe it could use a little more RPM.) Everything runs fine once it gets above 140F. The MAF curve is dialed in. Idle in both Neutral and Drive are within 50-75 RPM of desired. I can run the engine in open or closed loop. I'm Still in a 500 mile ring break-in period, so 3200 is my self imposed rev limit.
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by sailorbob » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:04 am

For question (1) the answer is yes, they can all get used but it depends on the ECT, transmission type and neutral / drive state for some of them.

ChsReb
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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:49 pm

OK, I think I've just about got the startup dying and surging figured out. I'll post more detail after I finalize my theories with a fully working vehicle.

To be brief and concise with findings to date:

Datalog, Idle PERLOAD, RPM, and DSDRPM. Put simply, the wider the variation between DSDRPM and RPM, ESPECIALLY ON COLD START, the more likely the Idle will surge or out right die, especially when being put in gear. :shock: This is a constantly changing target as the car warms up. :roll:

You must have your MAF, FN875N and FN875D CLOSE, (50-100 RPM difference with desired) before beginning cold start adjustments. If the MAF is off, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME! :x :oops:

For a Cold Start:
Set DSDRPM using FN825A Around 1200 RPM INITIAL seems close for a starting RPM. (Obviously temperature dependent. I'm in coastal SC. Can anybody tell me how to datalog the: ALT_CAL_FLG?)
Adjust FN1361 for an smooth cold start. My stock calibration was very close.
Adjust 1862N and 1862D to match DSDRPM. Preliminary results say both drive and neutral should have the same RPM during a cold start. You can do this with the 1862 functions. :wink:
Match ISC SCALER parameters to the ORIGINAL U4P2 calibration or whatever your original STOCK calibration. (It just WORKS. 8) )

This takes forever, since you only get one or two dead cold starts per day in the spring months.

That is MOST of it. Still Tuning! 8) :biggrin:
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by sailorbob » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 pm

There's no need to bother with the ALT_CAL_FLG as the ALT_CAL_DIST parameter is set to zero in the stock U4P0 calibration.

ChsReb
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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:04 pm

Thank Ya, Thank Ya!

That at least tells me what functions I can ignore. :lol:
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

ChsReb
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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:06 pm

The real problem here is the ISC has too much gain, I'm getting closer after rewriting a bunch of tables, but the main problem remains. Sometimes it comes up without Surging. Sometimes it doesn't.

I've had a lot of experience setting up PIDs in an industrial automation setting. To tune a PID you use the following steps:

Set all gains to zero.
Increase the P gain until the response to a disturbance is steady oscillation.
Increase the D gain until the the oscillations go away (i.e. it's critically damped).
Repeat steps 2 and 3 until increasing the D gain does not stop the oscillations.
Set P and D to the last stable values.
Increase the I gain until it brings you close to the set point. I'm at the Overshoot, Undershoot, Overshoot MOST times going from "Drive" to "Neutral". "Neutral" to "Drive" doesn't oscillate.

Anybody Know what the Proportional, Integral, and Derivative ISC scalars are? Do we even have access to them? I need to turn the "P" down, and the "D" up.
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by sailorbob » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:47 am

See FN811, FN851 and FN852 for the proportional term, derivative modifier and proportional modifier functions used in the idle speed control "rpm control" or "rpm lockout" modes.

ChsReb
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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:23 pm

In reading the BE descriptors, all these modify DSDRPM. That parameter is rock solid. No jumping around whatsoever. Nice smooth study transition. I'd really like to keep that one as is. :confused:

The issue comes between shifts (As in "Park" to "Drive" or vs versa.) as you get that momentary RPM spike. Still tinkering, but locking out timing makes Surge Worse.

Tomorrows test will prove as to if ignition timing has anything to do with surge. I've got RPM between DSDRPM and RPM with in 50 across the board on startup. Tomorrow I'll see what the next parameter to check is.

Painfully show process since I get one cold start per day with highs in the upper 70s and 80s lately. :roll:
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by sailorbob » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:52 am

Those three functions are used for modifying the 'Desired Idle Air Flow' (aka DESMAF) value.

ChsReb
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Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:51 pm

OK, I've got it down to ONE overshoot, One Undershoot when going from drive to Neutral or vice versa during cold start throughout the startup range. Due to living in coastal SC, I've been unable to test for startup conditions below 55F. (We're having record high temperatures these days. It might hit 90 in a couple days. Hopefully the virus won't like it.) Hopefully you Northerners can expand on my work before summer gets here. In the process I've revised or totally rewritten over a dozen tables and functions and at least twice that many scalars.

General Notes and Findings:
TOO RICH of a mixture plays a MAJOR part is surge conditions.
You want to REDUCE mixture enrichment as fast as possible to avoid a surge condition.
Locking out timing during startup, until the engine reaches 180F, suppresses Surge.
Getting DSDRPM and actual RPM as close as possible suppresses surge conditions.
MOST of my scalars are directly from a U4P2 BASE calibration.
The colder the engine, the worse the surge.
Increasing Engine RPM at start up is vital to achieving a quick stable idle.
The MAF curve must be DEAD ON, or you are wasting your time.
Get the engine up to operating temperature and adjust FN875N & D to desired plus 0-75 RPM. I'm using 752 RPM for both with a fairly mild cam. Find you stable idle for your cam and adjust accordingly. ONLY after hot Idle in Neutral and Drive is stable and accurate, can you work on the cold start routine.
I'm working with COMPUTER FEEDBACK idle control. Mechanical Idle Control might behave differently.

I'm working on a video for my YouTube Channel that details all of my changes. I'll post the address when it is complete and posted.

For all you cynics out their, I'm NOT monetized.
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

ChsReb
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Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:28 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:52 pm

OK, here is the calibration file. It uses Sailor Bob's extended definition files and can NOT be read into a standard CBAZA.xlsx Strategy. Since it uses some extended definitions, it can't even be uploaded into a public Domain CBAZA Strategy. (YES, I tried.)

Spend you hard earned cash, and buy Sailor Bob's extended Strategy.

OK, OFF of my unpaid endorsement soap box.

Several notes:
The Engine is still in a break-in period to seat the rings. It has never been over 3300 RPM.
It runs just fine in OPEN or CLOSED loop.
Start up has not been tested BELOW 55F.
When I post the video it will provide details for all my hardware.
The engine is a 351W based 408.
RE-SCALE ALL SCALARS, FUNCTIONS AND TABLES ACCORDINGLY!!!
I have NO IDEA what the corresponding GUFx parameters are, nor if they operate the same way.
R169 has a 15% increase in FN1862D. It is otherwise identical to the datalogged version.

Questions?
Comments?
Criticisms?
You're Full of it?
Great Job?
Give me some feedback.
I've also included the most recent startup Datalog.
AND YES, I STILL want to know how to reduce the ISC gain....
YES, this is revision 169 since I put the new engine in. (Actually that number is low...)
R169-cL-032920.BEB
(2.64 MiB) Downloaded 37 times
R168-cL-3_29_08-43-52.csv
(264.18 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

ChsReb
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Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:28 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Tuning CBAZA for Cold Start Drive Engagement

Post by ChsReb » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:47 am

OK here is the video link to my YouTube Channel video. It is not Monetized (Yet anyway as of 4/13/20) so no adds to deal with.
Video link: https://youtu.be/t5dft2jyhZs
This is a developmental video. I'm actively seeking comments and additional expertise. The vehicle runs and starts just fine. Still working on the RPM spikes. I'm fully aware it isn't a finished product. It is Close but not there yet.

In the video I discuss and show the datalog, all the relevant Scalars, Functions, and tables as of the time the video was produced. You non-CBAZA users should be able to translate accordingly.

I'm in it with most of the rest of you, being in a "Stay at Home' order with COVID-19. Work will continue as conditions permit.
95 GT, CBAZA with U4P0 Base, EEC 56k 1 Bank, 408 Windsor with Trick Flow intake, BBK 75mm throttle body, Ford 47 LB injectors, AFR 185 Heads, Custom Comp Cams Cam, Moates QH v1.6, BE 5.122, with Sailor Bob Strategy upgrade, AODE w/SatNightSpl and full TCI Rebuild. 4" Gen 1 Slot MAF with 4" K&N Filter in custom cold air enclosure.

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