Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

Moderators: cgrey8, EDS50, Jon 94GT, 2Shaker

Post Reply
bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:26 pm

I have BE and a QH and three different EEC-V PCMS. I have a XDT2 from a 1997 Mountaineer. I can read this computer with no issues. My engine and wiring harness are from a 1999 5.0 Explorer with a EQE1 PCM. I have two of these. I cannot get QH and BE to read either of these PCMS (it does read something, but appears to be garbage). I have cleaned the J3 connectors VERY good, and checked continuity across the entire pad to the PCB trace and I have good connection. I bought a clone Ford IDS J2534 and updated the PCM to the latest strategy (FNL0) and it verified OK. I then read the bin with a Kess and it shows that it is in fact a READ0A7 strategy, so it did write to the PCM. QH will still not read the PCM. I worked with Clint for a while, but we didn't come up with anything. Anyone else have a similar problem or can think of anything I can do to troubleshoot? The engine is still on a stand, so I cannot try to start, but the harness is complete. I can hook a scan tool to it and see TPS readings, so I assume the computer program is running.

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:40 pm

Have you got 12v connected to the EEC boxes?

Do they have solder jumper pads;
J3 PORT ENABLE.jpg
J3 PORT ENABLE.jpg (48.46 KiB) Viewed 5480 times
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:32 pm

Mine does not appear to have those pads. Definitely not in the same location. I do have some pads scattered throughout the pcb, but not like the ones you have pictured.

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:01 pm

Not jumper pads then.

Post some pics of the front and back of the PCB's.

What definitiin files did you try for the reads?
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:04 pm

This one was an original EQE1 using REAC3 strategy. Quarterhorse would not read it. I thought possibly something was corrupt since the QH was returning garbage, so I used Ford IDS to update it to the latest version. Now it is a FLN0 using a READ0 strategy. QH will still not read it. The other 1999 PCM I have is also labeled EQE1, but Forscan reports it as EQE5. QH will not read good data from that one either. I can read the 1997 PCM correctly every time so my bench harness is working correctly. I am using a good power supply running at 13.5v

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:06 pm

The pics did not attach.

Here is a link:
https://www.amazon.com/photos/groups/sh ... Tcgx7Cf22J

Image

Image

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:39 am

Nothing obvious jumps out from the pics.

Try the attached def for the read.
Attachments
4bank.xls
(75 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

User avatar
cgrey8
Administrator
Posts: 11234
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:54 am
Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
Contact:

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by cgrey8 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:36 am

bmasencup, I edited your post below to link directly to the pictures.

Its hard to tell from the pictures, but the larger SMD (surface mount) capacitor with the X on top looks like it is starting to dome, indicating it is reaching end of life. At some point, it is likely going to need to be replaced.

I see you had the same problem I did with getting an image that captures the chip text. I don't know what it is about that conformal coating, but it reflects and defracts light making it extremely difficult to get a clear image of the text on the chips even when zoomed right in on the chips.

When taking pictures of my XDT2 (97 Explorer V8) and XAD2 (97 Ranger 4.0L auto) EECs, there were some chips I had to have a secondary light source shine at different angles to find a setup that would capture the letters. What I was most surprised about is how the camera could capture the letters better than my eye could. Even with a jeweler's monocle, I had no hope of making out the letters on the chips. I tried scraping some of the rubber coating off one of the chips, but even that didn't help. My guess is that without the coating, the laser etching on the chips was faint to start with, and the coating just made reading the chips even worse.

Does anybody know what dissolves that rubber? On both of those EEC-Vs, the coating was gooped all over the pins on the J3 port, so if I have any hope of connecting to the pins on that port, I'll need to get that stuff cleaned off the contacts. I'm sure sand paper will eventually get it, but I was hoping for something a little less brute-force and abrasive.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Which chips in particular do you need to read the numbers on? I sure hope actual tuning is going to be easier than getting the QH working. :lol:

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:46 pm

cgrey8 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:36 am I'm sure sand paper will eventually get it, but I was hoping for something a little less brute-force and abrasive.
A razor blade works well to slice it off.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

User avatar
tvrfan
Tuning Addict
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by tvrfan » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:31 pm

(as per JSA)
Very careful work with a Stanley knife blade and small pliers (to pull off the gunk lumps) did mine. Then a wipe with thinners, and then a light sand with something like 800 grit wet and dry (just enough to take the oxide coating off the pads).

My early EEC didn't have those 'enable' pads either. That image above looks like the J3 contacts were tinned (i.e thin layer of solder) which typically happens if board manufactured with the 'solder bath' technique. Anyway, a gentle sand will clean the oxide off, or you can work a bit more down to the copper if you prefer. Some people reckon the solder layer is less reliable for contacts. (it's soft and oxidizes quicker) Just so long as surfaces don't look dull.
TVR, kit cars, classic cars. Ex IT geek, development and databases.
https://github.com/tvrfan/EEC-IV-disassembler

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:46 am

I used the 4Bank.xls file to read the pcm. I had to add PCMType EEC_216K to get it to work. It read garbage. I read it twice and ran the two files through winmerge. The two files were completely different and neither of them had the strategy text or Ford in them anywhere so just random data.

I verified again that I have continuity on each connector pad to the QH, so it is not a connection problem.

Any other suggestions?

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:37 am

When BE throws up the error message, you can allow it to auto determine eec type rather than specifying it in the definition.

Does the QH still read your XDT2 box?

You could check continuity of the J3 MBUS pads through to the PROM chip, just to be sure. N7005FWCHCA is the PROM.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

User avatar
cgrey8
Administrator
Posts: 11234
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:54 am
Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
Contact:

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by cgrey8 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:33 am

jsa wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:37 amDoes the QH still read your XDT2 box?
I haven't tried. The version of XDT2.bin that I have is from someone else many years ago that uploaded their ROM-dump.

And I don't think there is an XAD2.bin floating around yet nor have I tried to get a dump of it. I believe it'll be the most interesting as I suspect that it might have two DUCE chips (or some other peripheral that supports memory modes) on it, each put to a different mode so they are in different memory spaces and can coexist on the MBus. I would've just assumed that Ford would give different mode chips a different PN. But perhaps for cost reasons, they buy them and on their production lines, do something to them to put them in the mode they need them to be in.

One of the tricks we did to one of our products was to use one of the address lines as a bank-select on one of our flash chips. But that worked for us because our architecture read 16-bits of data at a time vs this architecture having to reuse the same lines for both high byte and low byte. Doing something like that here would get the desired behavior on one byte, but corrupt the interpretation of the other byte. So its more likely there's a procedure to get the chips into the desired mode, and do so permanently. From what I understand that's been and is still a popular technique for configuring chips or purposely disabling features when "binning" a chip. For those not familiar with what this is, companies like Intel will produce wafers of processors identically, then test them to find out what each is actually capable of. So one chip might come out of the process fully functional, another might have a bad processor in it, but otherwise all other aspects work. Some may have all processors working, but don't stably execute at really high clock rates.

So instead of throwing them away, they disable aspects of the chip they know are malfunctioning and lock their clock rates to tolerable speeds, then sell them as lesser-capable model numbers. Sadly this practice often means they disable perfectly good components too. To keep the explanation simple, lets say the company sells a 12 core/5GHz, 10 core/4GHz, and 8/3GHz core model. In manufacturing they test a sample with 11 working cores. The closest product it fits is the 10-core. But they find the chip is still unstable at 4GHz. So they have to disable, not just the completely defective core, but 3 perfectly functioning cores to make the chip appear as an 8-core, then lock its clock rate at 3GHz to make the chip both a viable product AND fit in their product lineup. It won't bring in as much money, but it's better than scrapping it altogether.

In this case, there were only 3 tiers which would clearly make for still a lot of wasted silicon they can't get as much money for. So this is why when you look at Intel's lineup of processors, it gets so complicated. I3, I5, I7, I9, and different clock variants within each of these classifications. They create this level of complexity so they have a better chance of activating as much of the functioning silicon as they can and thus getting paid as much as they can for it. They'll even do things like market and physically package the lesser speed-capable chips to be laptop chips which tend to prefer efficiency over performance anyway...and lower clock rates do consume significantly less power. And back to the point, they "disable" sections of their chips by sending current into select pins to literally burn internal wires to specific components thus disabling them.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:51 am

I tested my XDT2 and it still reads fine so the QH is good.

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:03 pm

I broke down and bought another off ebay. Clint was able to read his EQE3, so I am going to try that. Still can’t explain why I can’t read the ones I have.

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:49 pm

cgrey8 wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:33 am And I don't think there is an XAD2.bin floating around yet nor have I tried to get a dump of it. I believe it'll be the most interesting as I suspect that it might have two DUCE chips (or some other peripheral that supports memory modes) on it, each put to a different mode so they are in different memory spaces and can coexist on the MBus. I would've just assumed that Ford would give different mode chips a different PN. But perhaps for cost reasons, they buy them and on their production lines, do something to them to put them in the mode they need them to be in.
It'd be good if you could read that dual DARC XAD2 box.
Pull up or down of a pin could configure dual chips to do something different. Such tricks are mentioned in the manuals.

It doesn't look like the issue here, EQE1 looks like a uP, IO & Prom.
bmasencup wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:03 pm I broke down and bought another off ebay. Clint was able to read his EQE3, so I am going to try that. Still can’t explain why I can’t read the ones I have.
Is EQE3 the same hardware code as EQE1?

Dud EEC is a possibility.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:11 pm

Yes. The hardware codes are the same. I ran out of ideas so throwing another variable in always helps right?

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:01 pm

FINALLY!!! The EQE3 I bought works. Now to figure out why the other two will not read. At least I know this hardware version works.

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:39 pm

OK, so now that the EQE3 reads, I started comparing the PCMs since they are the same hardware revision. I think I found the reason I could not read the EQE1s that I have. Those sneaky guys (not what I am really thinking) removed some surface mount resistors. I have not tested yet, but this should be it. I have attached pictures of the EQE1 and the EQE3 showing where the resistors are missing. They are 0402 smd 10 ohm.
Attachments
EQE1 Without Jumpers
EQE1 Without Jumpers
withoutJumpers.png (997.55 KiB) Viewed 5245 times
EQE3 With Jumpers
EQE3 With Jumpers
withJumpers.png (1.04 MiB) Viewed 5245 times

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:05 am

Was looking at those, wondering, hence why I suggested above, testing continuity from J3 pads to the PROM.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:25 am

I completely overlooked them since they are smd pads and not jumper pads. There are hundreds of missing smd parts on the board. I wouldn’t have just jumpered them anyway without knowing what value resistor to use. But you were right from the beginning just different revision. This new board looks identical to my others, but the j3 connector did not have the grease on it, it was just coated in the sealant like the rest of the board. Much harder to get clean.
Anyway, I have ordered the correct resistors and will install them and post an update in case someone else runs across this thread. Thanks to everyone for their help.

bmasencup
Gear Head
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by bmasencup » Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:36 pm

The resistors fixed it. I ordered the wrong size though. I ordered size 0402 but I think they are 0603 size 10ohm. I was able to use the smaller ones but it was tough. Anyway, now I can read the EQE1 pcms through the Quarterhorse. Now the fun starts. Figuring out how to disable automatic transmission, PATS, and other stuff and get this thing running.

jsa
Tuning Addict
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: 'straya

Re: Anyone have any tips for getting QH to read the stock bin with BE?

Post by jsa » Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:16 pm

The PCB must be used in other hardware versions that would have components in those hundreds of unused positions.

Thanks for confirming the working solution.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - CARD QUIK COSY ANTI / GHAJ0
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests