Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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twinturbostang
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Post by twinturbostang » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:08 pm

Dale McPeters wrote:I am ready to see some of that welding that you have been doing!!!! :lol:
Welding? What welding??! I welded a wrench to a battery one time. That was pretty cool!! :D :shock:

codeout: Thanks. I've already got an LLX4. Never got the TwEECer working on my EEC though. Hopefully this will solve both problems. I went to Advanced Auto and it of course is special order. They were able to take care of the core charge though, and the new one will be mailed directly to me. So that saves another trip to the parts store. I'll keep you guys updated.
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:17 pm

twinturbostang wrote:
Dale McPeters wrote:I am ready to see some of that welding that you have been doing!!!! :lol:
Welding? What welding??! I welded a wrench to a battery one time. That was pretty cool!! :D :shock:

codeout: Thanks. I've already got an LLX4. Never got the TwEECer working on my EEC though. Hopefully this will solve both problems. I went to Advanced Auto and it of course is special order. They were able to take care of the core charge though, and the new one will be mailed directly to me. So that saves another trip to the parts store. I'll keep you guys updated.
Yep that battery and wrench welding would be cool!!
I thought you bought a wire welding machine to build the turbo kit? :?
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Post by twinturbostang » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:02 pm

Dale McPeters wrote:Yep that battery and wrench welding would be cool!!
I thought you bought a wire welding machine to build the turbo kit? :?
Hehe. Yeah, I did. Haven't done a whole lot with it. A couple of misc. projects here and there. I bought it to do stuff like subframes, cage, and things like that. But I need more experience before I tackle those.

I don't know what I'm going to do for a turbo kit now. If I don't buy a complete kit, I would prefer to have a pro tig the exhaust side for me. That is the most critical. The cold side tubing I can manage. Since Induction Concepts is gone, I've thought about going with an HP Performance kit, but I don't know.
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:51 pm

All I can say about HP Preformance is that their kits work.
I drove up to their shop when I had the '03 Mach 1 as I was
thinking of buying one of their kits for it. Just made a day trip
out of it...:P

But alas I sold the Mach 1 as I had to many foxbody projects
going on......and still do. :lol:
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Post by twinturbostang » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:41 am

Rad used to bad mouth them left and right. "Their kit is crap".."this component is wrong".. etc. etc. But like you say, their stuff works. And they appear to still be in business too, which is an important point! :D

Can you tell me more about your experience there? It really makes me nervous to purchase anything these days, what with Incon, Induction Concepts, and all the other companies that have folded while screwing customers in the process. I'd like to hear anything you care to share about HP.

Thanks,
Brian
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:05 am

twinturbostang wrote:Rad used to bad mouth them left and right. "Their kit is crap".."this component is wrong".. etc. etc. But like you say, their stuff works. And they appear to still be in business too, which is an important point! :D
Yeah I remember him saying that kind of thing. But like I told him in
on of the email sessions that we had before he went under..."You can
not gold plate every item in the kit and expect to stay in business. You
need to find something that has a reasonable price that works and be
done with it."

I knew when he jacked up the price to around $10,000 a kit it was not
going to last to long after that......

Anyway that is all water under the bridge.
twinturbostang wrote: Can you tell me more about your experience there? It really makes me nervous to purchase anything these days, what with Incon, Induction Concepts, and all the other companies that have folded while screwing customers in the process. I'd like to hear anything you care to share about HP.

Thanks,
Brian
As far as HP Performance goes I know quite a few guys around this area that are running their kits and have not had anything but the usual problems. Like time delays, late shipping etc. etc. but they always received their parts in the long run.

Another company to take a looks at is Hellion as they are in my area of the world as well. They make a quality product and deliver on time from what I hear....
Hellion is said to have the kits on the shelf ready for shipment.

PTK Pro Turbo Kits is also another one that is in my area of the world.
Jeremy had the first prototype '03 Mach 1 kit on his car and now it has
ended up on old man Joe Lynch's car... :wink:


Of course you can hear all kinds of things on the internet. Even on turbomustangs.com you sometimes have to read between the lines about turbo company feedback.

I will drop you an email later.
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Post by twinturbostang » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:37 pm

Thanks Dale. HP is the only company that I know of that makes a twin turbo kit for the Cobras. If I went with a single turbo kit... I'd have to get a new user name!! :D
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by twinturbostang » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:31 pm

Update: I received the new EEC today! Wow, that was pretty fast. I just ordered it Sunday afternoon. Anyway, the excitement was short lived. The TwEECer still appears to not function properly on the EEC. Well, I can read the EEC ok it appears, and I can read/write the TwEECer. But the engine will not run unless the TwEECer is in the OFF position. If it's in any of the 4 memory positions, it won't run. It starts, and then immediately dies. If I start the engine with the TwEECer OFF, and then switch to a memory position, the engine immediately dies.

However, when the TwEECer was disabled, I did observe the electric fan working properly with temperature activation. Although now I'm not 100% sure that it was not working before. I had recently borrowed a laser temp gun from a buddy. Today I decided to use it and I ran the engine until I observed the coolant hoses getting up to 195'ish degrees. The fan turned on at that point. BUT, when I looked at the temp gauge on the dash, it was way the hell up there. A LOT higher than I would have felt comfortable driving the car at. The gauge was reading between the "M" and "A" in "NORMAL". So I can't say with certainty that it was not working before. I did not have a temp gun at the time, so I don't really know how hot it got. It's possible that it never reached the temp required for the fan to turn on, and yet I *thought* it was really hot due to the gauge reading. This is possible, however I'm not sure if it's the case or not. Which puts me in a difficult position... If it really was working before, then I just spent $150 for nothing. In that case, I'd love to return this EEC and get my original back. Don't know if I can do that though. But what if I can, and then it turns out that the old EEC really WAS bad?!?! Then do I buy another EEC AGAIN?!?!!? ARghH!!!!!

Anyways, I sent an e-mail to Mike about the other problem, and hopefully he'll be able to figure out what's going on.

Brian <---- pulling his hair out yet again
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by codedout » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:15 am

I have noticed that too, my temp gauge on the dash does not correlate with the ECT from calcon, and if I put my laser temp on the thermostat housing it matches calcon. I am wondering if there are not 2 temp sensors, 1 for the gauge and 1 for ECT.
Mike
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Post by cgrey8 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:30 am

My engine has two sensors. The ECT is right behind the thermostat. The Engine Temp sending unit is on the driver's side of the engine manifold and has only 1 wire going to it similar to the oil pressure sending unit.

This picture was meant to display something else, but you can see the brass Engine temp sending unit right below the distributor:
Image

The wash it is detecting is the heated water from the driver's side head flowing through the lower, back to the thermostat.

The ECT is a much more precise sensor since it is what the EEC relies on...and that's what CalCon is datalogging. Sending units are to run gauges on the dash that, to be honest, are glorified idiot lights. The voltage meter is pretty useful, but the oil pressure and engine temp gauge are only there to warn you if you have a critical condition...they aren't really meant to be highly accurate.

FYI, what's circled is an ACT provision that was never tapped in my Explorer lower since Explorer motors have the ACT in the rubber intake snorkel between the MAF & TB.
...Always Somethin'

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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:34 pm

Sheesh, you guys and yer old pushrod motors. :roll: :wink:

The DOHC motors have a coolant crossover pipe and there is a sensor mounted at the base of each end of the tube (one at each cylinder head). Not sure if both are ECT sensors, or if one is for the idiot gauge inside. If the idiot gauge sending unit is in fact one of those two sensors, then I have a feeling the gauge itself is the culprit.

I was just going by my previous experience where in my Fox stangs the stock gauge was at least somewhat accurate, in that it would always read down at the bottom of the gauge when at 180 degrees or so. The temp gauge in my Cobra was reading well past 1/2 way at only 190 degrees.

Oh well. I think I've got that sorted out now. The problem now is getting the TwEECer to speak the same language as the EEC!
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:08 pm

twinturbostang wrote:Sheesh, you guys and yer old pushrod motors. :roll: :wink:
:lol:
twinturbostang wrote: Oh well. I think I've got that sorted out now. The problem now is getting the TwEECer to speak the same language as the EEC!


Well hurry up I want to see pictures!!! :P
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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:45 pm

Pictures of what?!?! The TwEECer not talking to the EEC?? :)
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by JuiceSC » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:04 pm

My tweecer worked fine on my 'old pushrod' motor car. :shock:
91 GT, A9P, systemax II, 75mm tb, AFP, 75mm Pro M, 42#, Vortech S trim, GT40 crate 5.0, BBK catted X, flows, Tremec 3550, Pro 5.0, 3.27 gears. Tweecer RT, TunerPro.

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Post by Dale McPeters » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:22 pm

twinturbostang wrote:Pictures of what?!?! The TwEECer not talking to the EEC?? :)
Yeah!!! And the car actually running.... :P
Have not seen to much after you got the engine
back and installed.
JuiceSC wrote:My tweecer worked fine on my 'old pushrod' motor car. :shock:
I think that is his problem JuiceSC is that he does not have any pushrods
in that engine!! :lol:
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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:33 pm

Hehe. Ok, well, I'll pull off the oil fill cap, and drop a couple of pushrods in there. Then maybe it'll run. :D

Dale, believe it or not, a picture of the engine running looks a lot like a picture of the engine NOT running. :D ;) However, I guess I could shake the camera while I'm taking the picture. That would make it blurry and look like it has so much power that it is wrestling to break free of the engine mounts!! LOL :D
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:48 pm

If you just go ahead and drop those pushrods in there
I do think you will need to shake the camera to much..... :lol:
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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:02 pm

Ok Dale. Just for you....

Engine running:

Image

Engine off:

Image


:D :D :D
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:12 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
You did not add the pushrods did you?
It does not seem to be shaking any at all..... :P
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Post by twinturbostang » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:27 pm

Well, Mike sent me a couple of BIN's to try, but they didn't make any difference. So I sent the TwEECer back to them. Hopefully they will be able to fix whatever the problem is.
www.twinturbostang.com

'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:39 pm

twinturbostang wrote:Well, Mike sent me a couple of BIN's to try, but they didn't make any difference. So I sent the TwEECer back to them. Hopefully they will be able to fix whatever the problem is.
Did you check the J3 port to make sure that it is activated on the EEC
that you currently have? I know on some of them that you have to solder
in a jumper connection if it is not.

Mike should be able to tell you wich one if it is not already activated.
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Post by Chris Mureen » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:58 pm

Dale, I think that was 99 that had that issue. I am not aware of any 96-98 that had any jumper problems.

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Post by twinturbostang » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:02 am

Never heard of that before. But regardless, I was able to read the EEC, so I'm assuming that means the J3 is functional.
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:29 am

Chris Mureen wrote:Dale, I think that was 99 that had that issue. I am not aware of any 96-98 that had any jumper problems.
Thanks for clearing that up Chris as I was not sure about this... :wink:
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Post by dil » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:13 pm

Any updates on this?
1988 5.0 coupe
306,T76 turbo.procharger 3 core cooler,42 lb injectors,A9L,stock cam,6037 heads,cobra intake,1.7 rockers,9.1 comp,5 speed with 3.31 gears.

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Post by twinturbostang » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:38 am

I was going to wait until I had done some more conclusive testing, but since you're so eager to hear the results... :)

I received my tweecer back from Troy the other day. As it turns out, the memory chips on my tweecer were not sufficient for the 2 bank processors. I have one of the very first RT boards made, so that's probably why. They upgraded the memory chips, and also swapped to the newer J3 connector. And I'm happy to report that so far, it appears to be working. I didn't have the laptop with me for the intial test. So I just flashed a stock LLX4 BIN to the tweecer via my desktop PC, and then plugged her in to the car. Engine ran fine with the tweecer plugged in and enabled on one of the memory positions. Before, the only way it would run was if the tweecer was disabled. So this appears to have solved the problem. I still want to do some more testing, like changing the electric fan turn on temp. That's a clear indication that things are working good. But I think it's ok now!

And the electric fan appears to be functioning properly now (ie: turning on at appropriate temperature). That was solved with the new EEC. So I'm good to go now. Well, I still have to do some swapping of H-pipes for the inspection. :D And figure out what's scraping on my clutch! But ya know... there's always SOMETHING that needs to be done! lol
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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Post by Dale McPeters » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:52 pm

Glad you got it fixed Brian!!!

By the way a little udate for you on my 418w.
I finally got all the new valve train items ordered
from Jay Allen at Camshaft Innovations. :wink:
Tight lash solid roller etc. etc. And all I can say is that
steel prices are really really high now-a-days!!! j/k :P
Hopefully that should get me up above the 20 rwhp
mark that I have been stuck at for over a year now!!! :lol:

Now all I have to worry about is breaking my little
bitty transmission...... :lol:
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Post by twinturbostang » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:53 pm

Bah! Weather has sucked lately. Since when did Canada move down here?!?! It's been down to 10F (and colder) with windchills below 0F.

Dale: 20rwhp? You must have nitrous on that thing! :D
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'97 Cobra - VT billet stroker shortblock, LLX4, TwEECer RT v1.30A9
'91 coupe - Incon Twin Turbo (gone, but not forgotten)

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