Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

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Re: Question on GUFX/A9L FN1861

Post by EDS50 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:35 pm

sailorbob wrote:It is mislabeled; it is multiplier of the predicted idle airflow to adjust for ECT and time in run mode.
You know, after thinking about this table for a few days and reading over the GUFx.doc; I cant help but to wonder if the whole table is set up or represented incorrectly in BE. FN01b doesnt seem to be correct since the air multiplier doesnt bleed off as it is intended after 30 seconds or is the top value the final multiplier? It almost seems to work as an alternate dashpot of somesort when stepping on the clutch and going into a neutral/idle condition. It will just hang the rpms and slowly bleed off but never fully. According to the GUFx.doc it appears to me that this table was intended more towards vehicles equipped with Auto trans vs Manual trans however works the same in both.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:59 pm

NDPPM Idle - ISC Air Netural To Drive 0.0000 lb/min

There is no pid descriptor but according to the gufx.doc it should read and be set to:

NDPPM = Expected change in airflow between engine in neutral and in
drive. Used as a feed forward mechanism for fuel control (increments the
filtered air mass on neutral/drive transition). ..Typical value - 0.15
ppm. NUBASE = Base desired engine speed in neutral

Not sure why the NUBASE descriptor is added on but can probably be left out.

DNPPM should read:

DNPPM = Feed forward mechanism for fuel control. Decrements filtered air
mass for drive/neutral transition.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:11 pm

decipha wrote:all your idle related variables i hit on in the idle air 101 thread
Yes but this thread is to discuss how the pid descriptors need to be updated. The isc start up air flow multiplier is mislabeled in how it actually works as confirmed by sailorbob.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:53 am

vristang wrote:Would it be possible to include error code numbers in the pid descriptions?

VMAMIM- triggers code 115

I may have the pid or code number wrong... Going from memory right now

This way we could search BE for the code number to find the relevant parameters quickly.
Jason, have you tried the DTC in EA? It has all the check engine codes for obd-1 2 and 3 digit codes. I know you are probably looking for that to be in BE but what happens when you have more than 1 sensor out of whack causing the other ones to behave like they are out of whack. You would also need to somehow institute a trouble code tree like they have in the dealerships.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by vristang » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:09 pm

EDS50 wrote:
vristang wrote:Would it be possible to include error code numbers in the pid descriptions?

VMAMIM- triggers code 115

I may have the pid or code number wrong... Going from memory right now

This way we could search BE for the code number to find the relevant parameters quickly.
Jason, have you tried the DTC in EA? It has all the check engine codes for obd-1 2 and 3 digit codes. I know you are probably looking for that to be in BE but what happens when you have more than 1 sensor out of whack causing the other ones to behave like they are out of whack. You would also need to somehow institute a trouble code tree like they have in the dealerships.
So I was wrong on the code number...
Code 157 - MAF sensor below minimum voltage.

I have a n/a 2.3 engine, running a MAF from a sn95 5.0HO Mustang.
On long decels, I was getting a CEL. Pulled the codes and got 157.

I wasn't surprised that this code came up, considering engine size and MAF being used.
Once I found the right parameter, it was a quick and easy change of settings to correct the issue... it hasn't repeated since.


I just pulled up EA's DTC tab. It doesn't tell me anything my scanner doesn't already tell me... "MAF Sensor went below .4 volts..."

I was just thinking we could make it easier to correlate from a given code number to the relevant parameter in the calibration.
I've never played with the 'Scan Tool' tab in EA... maybe that has the functionality I'm looking for?
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:16 pm

vristang wrote:
EDS50 wrote:
vristang wrote:Would it be possible to include error code numbers in the pid descriptions?

VMAMIM- triggers code 115

I may have the pid or code number wrong... Going from memory right now

This way we could search BE for the code number to find the relevant parameters quickly.
Jason, have you tried the DTC in EA? It has all the check engine codes for obd-1 2 and 3 digit codes. I know you are probably looking for that to be in BE but what happens when you have more than 1 sensor out of whack causing the other ones to behave like they are out of whack. You would also need to somehow institute a trouble code tree like they have in the dealerships.
So I was wrong on the code number...
Code 157 - MAF sensor below minimum voltage.

I have a n/a 2.3 engine, running a MAF from a sn95 5.0HO Mustang.
On long decels, I was getting a CEL. Pulled the codes and got 157.

I wasn't surprised that this code came up, considering engine size and MAF being used.
Once I found the right parameter, it was a quick and easy change of settings to correct the issue... it hasn't repeated since.


I just pulled up EA's DTC tab. It doesn't tell me anything my scanner doesn't already tell me... "MAF Sensor went below .4 volts..."

I was just thinking we could make it easier to correlate from a given code number to the relevant parameter in the calibration.
I've never played with the 'Scan Tool' tab in EA... maybe that has the functionality I'm looking for?
That is certainly worth looking into and discussing with Clint but I believe its for obd2
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by Cougar5.0 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:23 pm

EDS50 wrote: ...
I dont have a problem with either description but I was thinking of why the default setting is 0.0500 lb/min when the recommended setting is double the current default value? These are things that make me think why the defaults are set the way they are and why not set to the recommended or typical value.

Here is another example:

...

I think it should be updated to the gufb.doc description and I am also curious why the current default value is 64 rpm when the recommended or typical value is 300 rpm.
...
Just wanted to point out that there are many "recommended" values in GUFB that were tweaked subsequent to the publication of the document - these recommendations should be used as a guide to a rough setting for a parameter, but not as gospel.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Tue May 08, 2012 8:43 am

Cougar5.0 wrote:
EDS50 wrote: ...
I dont have a problem with either description but I was thinking of why the default setting is 0.0500 lb/min when the recommended setting is double the current default value? These are things that make me think why the defaults are set the way they are and why not set to the recommended or typical value.

Here is another example:

...

I think it should be updated to the gufb.doc description and I am also curious why the current default value is 64 rpm when the recommended or typical value is 300 rpm.
...
Just wanted to point out that there are many "recommended" values in GUFB that were tweaked subsequent to the publication of the document - these recommendations should be used as a guide to a rough setting for a parameter, but not as gospel.

Good to see you back! Us seasoned veterans know this but unfortunately the newcomers dont. Thats where things get confusing for them. They refer to the .doc and then come here to find out it may be different then they actually thought which can throw a monkey wrench into things.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:18 pm

v_goosn in gufb. Why would the default value be set to 12800 rpm?
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by decipha » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:59 pm

anything with a v_ is for self test

im just guesstimating but i would assume v_goos would be for rpm test?

most rpm scalars are /4

12800/4=3200 rpm sounds reasonable

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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:56 am

decipha wrote:anything with a v_ is for self test

im just guesstimating but i would assume v_goos would be for rpm test?

most rpm scalars are /4

12800/4=3200 rpm sounds reasonable
It is for rpm test but the equation is x*8.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by EDS50 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Here is a new one:

in a9l comments for vect3 are:
VECT3 - The minimum coolant temperature required for the KAM Warm Up counter to be updated. The temperature at start also needs to be less than the 'ECT Max at Start for Warm Up Flag' (aka VECT5) value. default value ifor vect3 is 150 default value for vect5 is 150.
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Re: Open Discussion to Update Strategy PID Descriptions

Post by 85GT » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:51 pm

85GT wrote:Don't forget about trying that change to make LOLOD look at %load as an option :)
decipha wrote:this ought to do it, add this to your xls and try it out

im almost certain 74+e2=perload and 74+de=load, prolly wouldn't hurt to ask sailorbob to verify though

Code: Select all

11		Z_X_LOLOD_SW	Z_X_LOLOD_SW	CL Load Input Variable	sw	"Input variable for LOLOD and LOLODH

0=Load (stock), 1=Perload"	0x2205, 0x2216	1	False	0	(x-222)/4			0	1
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