Explorer ECM - Page 5

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:31 pm

I am using your 1.20 version,I have never noticed any of those areas before,are they part of your final version?

Carl

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:07 pm

If I remember correctly,the author of that site claims that an EEC-IV(more over an A9L) will not produce a signal that the EDIS can use for advance.Well my car runs(A9L) and quite well at that,yes I have tuning to do(who doesn't),but I have been using my car on a daily basis for the last four weeks.I haven't had any problems with the igntion so far.He's right in the sense that a STOCK A9L won't send a SAW signal,but the majority of the people reading and posting to this site are Tweecer owner/users.

Carl

waren · Post by **waren** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:26 pm

Hey guys, I have been digging into the logistics of using EDIS on this thread for a while, BUT I dont own a tweecer. I was just bought one an RT so I thought I would load the software, and poke around at the settings I will have to change.

The A9L has a EDIS scalar BUT THE T4M0 DOES NOT !!!

There are CID sensor and type scalars but no EDIS scalar for the T4M0 that I can see. It might be in the BIN but the tweecer cant change it that I can see.

Anyone T4M0 EEC and EDIS + CID sensor ? If so what scalars did you "twEEC" ?

Have you looked at the SPOUT/SAW signal with a scope?

It is possible that the CID sensor scalar switch could tell the EEC that an EDIS is hooked up but I'm not holding my breath.

( PS if you havent changed anything in the EEC BIN ... your EDIS may advance timing but it is not providing the timing asked for by the EEC ... if its even close its dumb luck. The interface EEC signal to TFI and EDIS is totally different. )

I am sooo bummed out I thought that this was really going to work. I thought that the T4M0 would support for sure because the 94-95 V6's were EDIS no?

\\'

:(

93notch · Post by **93notch** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:46 pm

94-95 v6's are also EECV not EECIV and follow the Crown Vic strategy of CCAQ/CCAQE.

waren · Post by **waren** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:14 pm

94-95 v6's are also EECV not EECIV

Oh .. ok thanks Mike ... I dont suppose you want to tackle the T4M0 EDIS question?

There are CID sensor and type scalars but no EDIS scalar for the T4M0 that I can see. It might be in the BIN but the tweecer cant change it that I can see ....

It is possible that the CID sensor scalar switch could tell the EEC that an EDIS is hooked up but I'm not holding my breath.

Thanks again!

\\'

waren · Post by **waren** » Wed May 12, 2004 3:31 pm

Has anyone played with this scalar spark_ignition_type for the T4M0?

Just wondering if this could be the EDIS switch?

Telling the EEC that it is connected to an EDIS is important. I have used a scope to record the signal from my stock T4M0 and a 92 crown vic with EDIS. The SAW signal to the EDIS agrees 100% with the equation posted on dainst.com ... the signal however is 12V contrary to 5V Perry has posted.

I have scope screen shots but dont have the images on the WEB so I cant post them but I will try to show the difference.

BTDC___25,10,0,-10__25,10,0,-10__25,10,0,-10______640RPM~25BTDC

TFI
SPOUT __|********|__|********|__|********|__________19ms 45Hz
PIP ______|***|_______|*****|_____|*****|__________11ms 45Hz

EDIS
SAW ________|*|__________|*|_________|*|__________890us 45Hz
PIP ______|*****|______|*****|_____|*****|_________11ms 45Hz

DIFFERENCES

1) The EDIS PIP does not have the signature short tooth to ID #1 that why you need the CID sensor

2) The rising edge of the SPOUT fires the coil ... as shown at 25 BTDC if the SPOUT is missing the coil fires on the PIP at 10 BTDC.

3) The time between SPOUT pulses is DWELL

4) The EDIS SAW signal shows up sometime after 10 AFTD ( my scope shows as late as 20 ATDC ) and is a very short pulse that tells the coil when to fire the NEXT PLUG .... it is already too late to fire for that PIP.

4) The SPOUT pulse is dependent on RPM ( shorter at higher RPM )

5) The SAW pulse width is dependent only on the amount of timing the EEC wants ( shorter for more ADV BTDC )

6) the EDIS is "looking" for the SAW after 10 ATDC so if it sees the SPOUT during that time it may mistake it for a SAW signal ... it could then change the advance but not based on what the EEC wants ... as the falling edge of the SPOUT only controls dwell ....

\\'

TexAgCobra · Post by **TexAgCobra** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:29 pm

I just have to say that this is the coolest thing. I'll definitely migrate to this once i get my current setup figured out.

Sabio--I'm gonna PM you for the schematics. You're the MAN!

--Robert

My combo: A9L on stock '98 Explorer engine. Currently, I have a TFI distributor stuck in it, but I've got the COils, cam sensor and VRS sensr and ring all right there. I'll need to go pull an EDIS and wiring from the salvage yard.

I've wanted DIS for a while... THANKS!

moosejaw · Post by **moosejaw** » Sat May 29, 2004 11:15 pm

Hey Carl! I am interested in your vrs timing cover kit for stock covers. Send a photo and price.

I just picked up 6 coil packs and 4 edis-8 modules at the yard today. No crank wheels or cam id's. No late model anything around, especially explorers.

Mike

TexAgCobra · Post by **TexAgCobra** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:05 pm

Sorry to advertise here, but...

Cylinder ID Sensor with harness connector (Goes in distributor hole)
Crankshaft Position Sensor with harness connector
Coils with harness connector and bracket for 5.0L intake

and here's the best part...

Custom MSD 8.5mm SUPER CONDUCTOR WIRES
These cost me $90 and are just what you need for the DIS conversion. I installed small, 90° end on them for header clearence. I tested each one and marked the resistance on them.

To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi3.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ ... F%3AUS%3A1

fireguy50 · Post by **fireguy50** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:18 am

Haven't read this in a while, GREAT work!
BUT I have a 5.8L, and haven't done any major research into the distributor drive.

Is the dizzy drive shaft the same length in 5.0L to 5.8L ?
(if so I could try a 5.0L oil pump and dizzy drive)

Would the 5.0L oil pump bolt to the 5.8L block?
(I would assume so, but I've done some stupid stuff in my days)

Any body know a place that would make a custom shaft?
(5.8L oil pump, 5.8L length, 5.0L dixxy drive?

Are the exploder cam sensors all roller cam?
Do normal dizzy gears fit on the sensor?
(Again I'm assuming this will be easy)

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:48 pm

update on my end...

I am getting an adapter made to place the explorer crank angle ring put onto my balancer.. I have all the other parts :)

CAMID sensor [check]
Two Coil packs [check]
8EDIS Module [check]
crank sensor [check]

I just need to mount the ring, run some wires, and get some spark plug wires.. and be ready.... Now.. If only I had a set of heads....

turbinetrix · Post by **turbinetrix** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:52 pm

Anybody have an update? What is happening out there? Carl, Waren, any of you guys have anything new to say? I am about a week away from test fire. I need to get my tweecer in to get the conversion to an RT. other than that I am all set.
More to come.

Check out my build here.

http://home.comcast.net/~w3craft/557

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:54 pm

I am still attempting to fab my tone ring.

fireguy50 · Post by **fireguy50** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:49 am

wkstill wrote:I am still attempting to fab my tone ring.

me too.
I have all the parts, just need time to mount the wheel and convert the harness.

If anybody needs new EDIS-8 connectors with terminals e-mail me.
$25

kbconv · Post by **kbconv** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:55 am

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:24 pm

I have been driving my car all summer.The only problem to report was detonation,this only happened on our hotter days,my water temp would climb to 200 plus degrees.I pulled a couple of degrees timing at 3400 rpm and all was fine.
Carl

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:57 am

Carl..

I and i am sure others, would REALLY like to see some pictures of how you mounted your tone ring on your crank. This is the _ONLY_ thing holding me back.

Alos, like u I was having some cooling problems.. I have also moved the larger * out of the timing tables, so, hope it fixes it.. (I can't recall when i bumped mine up, but they were going pretty far up there)..

Skankin · Post by **Skankin** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:20 pm

I thought this might be useful:

http://www.karkraft.com/garage_sale.htm
5.0 EXPLORER FACTORY DAMPER
WITH CRANK TRIGGER RING
NEW TAKE-OFFS $29.00

Altnernatively, I've thought about converting to a remote TFI:
5.0 EFI DISTRIBUTORS $89.00 (1994/95) * new take outs
Non TFI Module style

My stock setup is almost toasted... I'm still hoping Crane will make an optically triggered distributor for the EEC-IV... simple plug and play.

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:05 pm

you can't use a explorer pully on a fox accessory setup, if you do, you will need to use all the explorer brackets and accessories, as the explorer dampner has the pulley attached to the pully.

Skankin · Post by **Skankin** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:21 am

93notch wrote: - HP_CID = A flag indicating cylinder # Identification Hardware is present.

- HP_CIDSEL = A flag indicating type of hardware present, 0 = Hall Effect; 1 = VRS.

- CIDRSW = Calibration switch to enable Special Fuel Timing at Idle, unitless. If set to 1, Enable; 0, Disable.

- HP_HIDRES = Hardware present - High Data Rate Electronic Spark.

- CCDSW = Calibration Switch to select Computer Controlled
Dwell. (1 = Computer Controlled Dwell; 0 = TFI Controlled Dwell)

When HP_CID is set to 1 then the HP_CIDSEL is the flag set by the calibrator to indicate which kind of CID hardware is present, Hall Effect sensing or Variable Reluctance sensing (Hall = 0 and VRS = 1).

Just to clarify, HP_CIDSEL = 1 means that a cam position sensor is used for cylinder identification (it uses a hall effect sensor, which is completely separate from the VRS).

Now, what is the HP_HIDRES switch?
What is this "High data rate electronic spark" hardware? (The VRS & trigger wheel?)
If this is set to zero, would the edis simply rely on the CID cam sensor? (timing wouldn't be as accurate, but you'd eliminate the distributor & have a simpler installation).

How do you set the CCSDW switch? Does the computer control the dwell or does the edis do it?

Finally, none of these variables are listed for the A9L. Does EDIS switch automatically set all of these variables?

wkstill wrote: you can't use a explorer pully on a fox accessory setup, if you do, you will need to use all the explorer brackets and accessories, as the explorer dampner has the pulley attached to the pully.

What is the best source for a 36-1 crank trigger ring?
Easiest way to attach it to the fox damper/pulley?

stangage · Post by **stangage** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:13 pm

Skankin wrote:Just to clarify, HP_CIDSEL = 1 means that a cam position sensor is used for cylinder identification (it uses a hall effect sensor, which is completely separate from the VRS).

HP_CIDSEL does not imply either Hall effect nor VRS - just that there is a sensor there. The type is selected with the other scalar.

Now, what is the HP_HIDRES switch?
What is this "High data rate electronic spark" hardware? (The VRS & trigger wheel?)
If this is set to zero, would the edis simply rely on the CID cam sensor? (timing wouldn't be as accurate, but you'd eliminate the distributor & have a simpler installation).

Hi-data-rate spark is another name for EDIS. The terms are equivelent.

How do you set the CCSDW switch? Does the computer control the dwell or does the edis do it?

This switch is for TFI related control. '94-'95 stangs used EEC controlled dwell TFI units.

Finally, none of these variables are listed for the A9L. Does EDIS switch automatically set all of these variables?

They all exist on the A9L, but might be called something different depending on the editor you use. These switches act independently for the most part.

Skankin · Post by **Skankin** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:25 am

Okay, for the A9L, the scalars would be:

EDIS ignition present = 1 (the HP_HIDRES switch)
EEC controlled dwell = 0
Ignition cylinder ID present = 1
Ignition cylinder ID type = 1

Adaptive Idle Low RPM only = CIDRSW (Calibration switch to enable Special Fuel Timing at Idle, unitless. If set to 1, Enable; 0, Disable)?

Any other software changes?

Bring up these questions again:
What is the best source for a 36-1 crank trigger ring?
Easiest way to attach it to the fox damper/pulley?

Jack Hidley · Post by **Jack Hidley** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:44 pm

Skankin,

I just used the trigger wheel that was on the Explorer 5.0 damper. It is just press fit on.

I've got some photos of how I attached my trigger wheel. If you give me an e-mail address, I'll send them to you.

Skankin · Post by **Skankin** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:10 am

PM sent.

Here's a few trigger-wheel options:
http://aus-www.rasip.fer.hr/users/dpavl ... heels.html

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:37 pm

Jack Hidley wrote:Skankin,

I just used the trigger wheel that was on the Explorer 5.0 damper. It is just press fit on.

I've got some photos of how I attached my trigger wheel. If you give me an e-mail address, I'll send them to you.

I would like to see pictures :-) Did you grind down the mustang balancer?

Jack Hidley · Post by **Jack Hidley** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:40 pm

I've gotten some more information on this subject from a Ford publication "Electronic Engine Controls EEC-IV Training".

The book has a whole chapter on ignition systems. It discusses the differences between the low and high data rate DIS systems. I'll scan some pages from this and post them this weekend. It also has a pinout section for EEC-IV processors. At the beginning of this section it lists all of the EEC module numbers that are covered by this pinout information. Pin 24 is listed as an ACD, CID, ITS, IMS, KS2, OS, PSPS or TSS+ sensor input. Pin 5 is listed as a BOO, KPWR or TSS+ input.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:42 pm

Jack Hidley wrote:I've gotten some more information on this subject from a Ford publication "Electronic Engine Controls EEC-IV Training".

The book has a whole chapter on ignition systems. It discusses the differences between the low and high data rate DIS systems. I'll scan some pages from this and post them this weekend. It also has a pinout section for EEC-IV processors. At the beginning of this section it lists all of the EEC module numbers that are covered by this pinout information. Pin 24 is listed as an ACD, CID, ITS, IMS, KS2, OS, PSPS or TSS+ sensor input. Pin 5 is listed as a BOO, KPWR or TSS+ input.

Jack,

Would you mind emailing me a copy or posting it in the files section of the EEC-Tuner or TwEECer Yahoo lists. As I may want to do this on the setup that I am working on now.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:22 pm

im still trying to mount ring :/

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:40 pm

wkstill wrote:im still trying to mount ring :/

Have you gotten it figured out yet? I came up with the ring etc. but have not done anything with it yet..........

wkstill · Post by **wkstill** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:40 pm

Nope, natta.. kinda hard, when its my daily driver, and i work m-f 8-6pm

I also have an exlorer rin. but missing the cid harness, and crank sensor harness.

but have the all the sensors, coils, and edis parts.

HELP .... T4M0 EDIS

spark_ignition_type .... T4M0

DIS Parts for sale

A9L and EDIS update

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