Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Future303
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Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by Future303 » Thu May 22, 2014 11:46 pm

To cgrey8: Thanks for moving my thread to classifieds. In case anyone is interested you can see it here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20971&p=118695&sid= ... 40#p118695

I'm willing to pay someone for help because I need to know a lot of details even if they are small.

I don't want to burden someone with all these questions without offering some compensation. No one has contacted me yet, so I will ask them here on this thread. I will try to do this in point form to keep it as on topic as possible.

- My car is currently set up as follows: 95 GT, 347 shortblock. My old FTI custom cam originally ground for 302. TFS TW 170 Heads. Edelbrock Performer 5.0 Intake (not RPM). T4M0 with base Tweecer. 1.6" roller rockers. 24lb Injectors. Stock MAF, Stock airbox (K&N filter and delete rubber boot). Fidanza Alum flywheel and alum driveshaft - Let me know if there's any other relevant information you may need.

- I'm not a total newbie to tuning. I used to have a EEC Tuner in the car before with a mild tune. However, that chip was a piece of shait compared to the Tweecer (or Quarterhorse, etc) both hardware and software wise, so I'm finding the Tweecer software a bit daunting.

- Currently the car has a base Tweecer with a stock J4J1 bin in it. Only changes to the tune are the fans are triggered to come on 15 degrees cooler and the Idle is set to 1000rpm.

So for my questions:

CBAZA strategy: Spark:

- My understanding is that to get the car to have a steady predictable spark curve, *every spark table should be "zeroed out" with 55 all across, *except* the base spark table, which is the one you will actually edit.

I can see at least 4 spark tables in the CBAZA strategy. According to this thread, there may be more?

viewtopic.php?p=72167

So what tables do I zero out? Do I zero out spark_mbt_table also? This is too confusing for me.


Fuel:

- My understanding is that this should be left alone except for the last 2 rows that are close to max load, and the goal is to try to get these to 13:1 AFR (On the J4J1 they are 11.5ish) and that the only safe way to do this is to do it on a dyno. Is this correct?

Idle:

- My understanding of Idle is that it's mostly a combination of a high idle RPM + correct injector timing settings. Is there anything else? My cam isn't too radical, but my alum flywheel makes the motor finicky to maintain flywheel inertia.

RPM hang:

I find that if I increase the neutral and drive idle to match, RPMs fall really really slowly. I understand this is a function of the Dashpot Decay table. I have no idea how to edit this table.

Hot starts:

I believe this has to do with the Startup Fuel vs ECT table. Again, no idea what #'s to actually edit.

MAF:

I currently have the stock GT MAF. The J4J1 as far as I understand is calibrated to work with this MAF.

I have a 90mm Lightning MAF along with a PowerPipe that I need to install in the car. Can I just replace the stock curve with an LMAF curve found online? Is that the only thing that needs to change MAF wise?

Intake Manifold volume:

This is an interesting one. Stock GT (T4M0) volume is 4. Stock J4J1 is 5.5. I would get a lean spike on throttle on my Wideband O2 Sensor until I increased that to 7 with the old EEC Tuner. Is it the same idea with the Tweecer?

Spark retard at tip-in. I understand that the correct way to eliminate that spark retard is put the highest spark # at the highest load. my old tune had 22 as a setting there. Is there a better way to handle this?

Engine displacement. Stock setting is 302. I have a 347 shortblock, but 302 parts at the top end. Should I keep that setting stock? Or change it to 347?

And mechanical wise, I have an electric Autometer Fuel Pressure gauge. During normal driving, it shows around 40psi. I've been told that this is incorrect, that the pressure should be 40psi without the vacuum hose plugged into it, and with the hose it should be around 32ish psi wise. When I take off the hose, pressure goes up to around 44psi.



These are the most pressing questions for me at the moment. Anyone care to take a stab at some answers for me? lol

I'm willing to offer compensation for your time to help me straighten out all this confusion.
95 Mustang GT. T4M0 with QuarterHorse. 347 shortblock. TFS TW 170 Heads. Performer 5.0 Intake. FTI Cam. 90mm Lightning MAF. 1.6 Roller Rockers. 70mm TB. U/D Pullies. Custom 2004 Cobra K&N Filter. Fidanza Alum Flywheel. Ford Alum Driveshaft. Hedman Headers, X-Pipe, Flowmasters.

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cgrey8
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Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by cgrey8 » Fri May 23, 2014 1:23 am

While there are people willing to do work for money here, most of the active members are willing to share their theories and thoughts on what your problem(s) might be or what to check for free. It's a DIY tuning forum where we do that sort of thing for each other.

The catch for you is with a TwEECer Base, there's not much you can do in the way of verifying anything about your setup. The TwEECer Base will let you change the tune, but it doesn't let you datalog to see what affects those changes have had. It's most similar to Moates Chips. You can write tunes to it, but that's it. The only thing the TwEECer Base has that's better than a Moates chip is that you can do those writes without physically removing it from the EEC. That's it's ONLY redeeming quality IMO.

What you need is a datalogging chip like the TwEECer RT or the Quarterhorse. And you don't want to trust your tune to CalEdit if you did go the TwEECer RT route. In either case, you'd want BinaryEditor as your editing software. However for the price, you won't find a better deal than the Moates QH. Some people have found they can use TunerPro with the QH, but I have no experience using TunerPro to communicate with the QH to know just how full-featured it is (or isn't). And I doubt there's a "good" CBAZA def for TunerPro.

At this point, the best anybody can do for you is a shoot-from-the-hip mail-order tune. And trying to fix any issues with that tune would be trial-n-error at best with what you got. To expect someone to effectively tune your setup remotely without you having the ability to get them datalogs is ALMOST like asking a pilot to take off and land a plane with no windows or instruments.

Do you have a Wideband O2 sensor? I didn't see it mentioned in the list.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Future303
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Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by Future303 » Fri May 23, 2014 2:04 am

Well here's the deal.

I'm going to get this car professionally tuned by Alternative Auto in Michigan. But I won't be able to go until mid July. I want to drive the car around for a bit with the base Tweecer, but I'm scared I will blow another headgasket (yes, I blew one before lol). Several things created a perfect storm the last time and I'm trying to minimize this as much as possible.

The tune I need on the car right now doesn't have to be amazing, since the car is going to go on the dyno soon. But I need to scratch up a safe tune so I can get the car out of the garage, emissions tested, and drivable until I can go to my appointment in July.

Once the car is professionally tuned, I'm officially getting out of the tuning game and will just sell my Tweecer for whatever I can get for it.

So that's where I am with this right now. Yes I do have a WB in the car right now.
95 Mustang GT. T4M0 with QuarterHorse. 347 shortblock. TFS TW 170 Heads. Performer 5.0 Intake. FTI Cam. 90mm Lightning MAF. 1.6 Roller Rockers. 70mm TB. U/D Pullies. Custom 2004 Cobra K&N Filter. Fidanza Alum Flywheel. Ford Alum Driveshaft. Hedman Headers, X-Pipe, Flowmasters.

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cgrey8
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Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by cgrey8 » Fri May 23, 2014 8:06 am

Sounds to me like you need 2 tunes. A driving tune and a pass-emissions tune.

Pay someone for a driving tune. It will likely have a fairly significant pull back of the spark table to ensure you don't blow another gasket. Depending on what your WB is telling you, it may need to be enriched (better to be too rich than too lean at WOT). And there may be a few back-n-forths to get the idle acceptable. Although with a WB, you might be able to tackle that yourself.

And for the emissions test tune, take whatever you come up with above that works OK to drive around with and set all spark values to something like 15. The last emissions test my truck required was last year. I loaded a tune with all cells filled with 18 and it passed with no CO, low double-digit HC, and I think NOx was somewhere in the 200s (limit was 1400). The stock Explorer 302 the year before just BARELY passed the NOx test with 1250, so I was really worried about the high compression 331 not passing at all. But the reduced spark advance did the trick. No additives to the fuel required.

I do recall that my laptop's WiFi transmitter did give the emissions computer hell. I had it connected and datalogging during the test. The engine was running at say 1300RPMs, but the emissions computer thought it was nearly 3000RPMs. As soon as I turned the WiFi transmitter off on the laptop, the emissions computer detected more accurate RPMs. I'm dumbfounded that it was that sensitive. I did the same exact thing the year before. That won't be a concern for you since it's a TwEECer Base. There'll be little reason to have the computer connected. Simply load the TwEECer up with your driving tune and your emissions tune. Use the hardware switch to flip to the emissions tune when you go in to get tested. Flip back to the driving tune when you leave.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

decipha

Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by decipha » Fri May 23, 2014 10:46 am

sounds like this is your answer

http://info.efidynotuning.com/t4m2.htm

Future303
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Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by Future303 » Fri May 23, 2014 6:16 pm

decipha, that looks like really great information.

It's just I'm tired of trying to figure out how to tune things. I've learned a lot, but I'm sick of the trial and error method which has caused me problems in the past. I wish I would have flatbed the car to a reputable tuner way back, and I will do that now if I have to.

I was just hoping I could get the car there under its own power.
95 Mustang GT. T4M0 with QuarterHorse. 347 shortblock. TFS TW 170 Heads. Performer 5.0 Intake. FTI Cam. 90mm Lightning MAF. 1.6 Roller Rockers. 70mm TB. U/D Pullies. Custom 2004 Cobra K&N Filter. Fidanza Alum Flywheel. Ford Alum Driveshaft. Hedman Headers, X-Pipe, Flowmasters.

2Shaker
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Re: Questions about CBAZA strategy. Very long post

Post by 2Shaker » Fri May 23, 2014 9:06 pm

I just sent you (future303) a PM.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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