Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

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XantheFIN
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Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by XantheFIN » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:53 am

Short story.


When i push WOT at lower gear (2700RPM) AFR is about 13 and LOAD is 76%..
When higher gear (2000RPM) AFR drops 10.8 as lowest and LOAD spikes to 89%.




My PRLDSW is 1 and i did try 0 or 2 but did not fix problem.
Forced Neutral State (TRLOAD = 0) so both is same as in stock calibration.
Forced Open Loop.
Injector slopes are equal (as a stock).
WOT Fuel Multiplier Function is all 1 and moved to FN1360 (Stabilised Table)



MAF sensor is in bigger housing and so modified MAF Function. But it does not explain to me why same spot of MAF gives me Rich and Lean.

MAF - LAMBSE - WB AFR
3.19 - 0.88 - 13.0-13.3
or
3.25 - 0.88 - 10.8
3.11 - 0.88 - 11.0


P.S. Cold start is a bit Lean but it think i can fix that..
MAF - LAMBSE - WB AFR
1.45 - 0.96 - 15.1-15.3
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Paulie
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Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by Paulie » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:38 am

If you are in open loop and lambse is commanding the same AFR and the maf voltage is the same but the wideband is showing a different afr at a different rpm/load then your injector slope/breakpoint/batt. comp. are off.
1990 Mustang 5.0, HCI, Vortech S-trim, FRPP 42# inj., PMAS MH95, A9L, Moates Quarterhorse, BE/EA, Innovate LC-1.

XantheFIN
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Location: Finland

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by XantheFIN » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:13 am

Paulie wrote:If you are in open loop and lambse is commanding the same AFR and the maf voltage is the same but the wideband is showing a different afr at a different rpm/load then your injector slope/breakpoint/batt. comp. are off.
Thanks for answering!
Slopes are equal as a stock calibration. So there is no problem. I did try by making them like mostly they are but as i expected it got very lean at idle so i had to turn ignition off after while waiting unexpected software magic happen.


Injector Offset vs Voltage is untouched. It can be a bit wrong. I'll change it when i change injectors for testing E85.
I think it is more likely fine tuning and not causing over rich effect on low RPM when battery voltage is not really changing on me (stays 12-13V depends when looking) but need recheck log video.



What i did try too was turn Air Charge Anticipation Off and it had big impact on cold start up lean.

I have one intake leak caused by Thermactor Bypass Solenoid Valve (?) which another end is unplugged.
I don't know how to turn yet completely off so it's stays on at cold starting situation and when cold start stops (or a bit early) it's turns off and won't come again on. Thats how much i got it staying off. Close enough.



When Thermactor stays On. Engine runs a bit lean but exactly when it closes it is almost what ECU is demanding now at Cold start!

I don't yet say rich problem would be gone but its comes faster to close what ECU wants...

Ideas?
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decipha

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by decipha » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:08 pm

if you at WOT then you'll be on the linear slope of the injector, if you have different AFRs at the same mafv then you obviously have a metering problem, either the maf is bad or you have too much turbulence in the maf tract that it can't measure it correctly
Last edited by decipha on Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cgrey8
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Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by cgrey8 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:57 pm

decipha wrote:if you at WOT then you'll be on the linear slope of the injector, if you have different AFRs at the same mafv then you obviously have a metering problem, either the maf is bad or you have too much turbulence in the maf tract that i can't measure it correctly
Different AFRs at the same MAFv and they occur at different RPMs, then it could also be bad Injector parameters. Although that's not likely to be seen at WOT only conditions. What I'm describing would be seen at different RPM/Load conditions with the same MAFv. If you are only focused on WOT tuning, then the injector parameters aren't as big of a deal.
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decipha

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by decipha » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:41 pm

that doesnt apply once the injector goes linear

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cgrey8
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Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by cgrey8 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:12 am

I either don't understand what you are saying, or I just disagree. I don't know which.

BTW, that doesn't mean I'm right. It just means if I'm wrong, I don't understand why I'm wrong.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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XantheFIN
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Location: Finland

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by XantheFIN » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:57 am

decipha wrote:if you at WOT then you'll be on the linear slope of the injector, if you have different AFRs at the same mafv then you obviously have a metering problem, either the maf is bad or you have too much turbulence in the maf tract that it can't measure it correctly
I think you are right.

My laptop is slow for recording and now i did spot while driving that a MAF voltage does not rise like it should. It bounces when this happens a bit high and low (3.19-3.54 etc) i think it's more than enough making this effect.


I'll fix and change it and try if it's gone.

Updates:
*I changed to orginal MAF which has some kind of filter before sensor but there is still some jumping on same place 3.20 to 3.54... Need focus fixing this first?
*Mine Injector Min PW is 0.401 mSecs
*I'll tweak Transient Fueling and see if it has any impact.

This is Injector Offset vs Voltage
0.00 2.50
0.00 2.50
0.00 2.50
0.00 2.50
0.00 2.50
0.00 2.50
7.00 2.50
8.00 1.66
10.00 1.13
12.00 0.75
14.00 0.53
15.94 0.53
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decipha

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by decipha » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:53 pm

set minpw to 0
transient fuel can not correct for a poor maf design

put a couple screens on the maf, 1 before and 1 after

you should be able to make consecutive WOT pulls and have each pull with a mafv within .05 volts of each other within the same rpm range

XantheFIN
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Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by XantheFIN » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:52 pm

Car did shut off while acceleration and found error code MAF voltage too low... I got now electrical problem which does occur on warm engine. Makes engine like it's cut's injectors (makes very bad engine running) or after that very rich.. I need check what causing this. Maybe wiring gone bad. I got another MAF sensor and same thing.

Replaced now old car battery. Much happier for it.


P.S. Now tuning FN1036A Table for just in case. It wasn't fun to drive without MAF. :mrgreen:
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XantheFIN
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Location: Finland

Re: Lean or Rich WOT depending Gear

Post by XantheFIN » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:49 pm

Image

Problem was very dirty MAF...i used Contact Cleaner twice (let it 'dry' a day).
Then dryied with heat gun (MAF sensor on my hand so i don't burn it.. just warm air flow) and let it dry 2 hours alone.


Now over Rich acceleration was gone and more likely it was leaner so it's makes sense. I did not log yet anything than just stared at AFR sceen. Cold start AFR was perfectly rich and not lean like mostly with uncleaned MAF.

Hesitation started when warm engine (mostly when try to speed up) and stalled once while acceleration.



My bad as i supposed. So all my 3 MAF sensors was just dirty. I need start to clean them regularly. Like at least once in year.

Thanks everyone!

P.S. This is picture of stock location of MAF sensor. I changed the housing to bigger one (ripped air filter front of it as orginal have) and moved it away from air box so it is now 'center' of that straight tube.
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