A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

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JohnnyK
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A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JohnnyK » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:51 pm

So I was getting decent (ok, not really at all) at tuning CL without a WB, but now that I have a wideband, I can see if I go OL (WOT, or thereabouts) it's going down into the 10's!

I know for CL, with NO WB, what I was doing was adjusting the MAF curve to try to make the LAMBSE around stoich..

And I have read (repeatedly) that I want to make the LAMBSE match the WB....

So am I looking for making them match when in CL, or in OL? I mean, obviously, both should match, but I'll look at a log, and sometimes at 3v, lambse will command rich.. Sometimes at 3v, it will command lean, so this is where I'm getting confused.. I assume Load or some such comes into play here, I'm just not sure how?

So break it down for me, if you could.. I want to log OL, or CL? And then adjust maf function to make lambse match the WB, but in OL, or CL?.. And thennnnn.. I can adjust OL I imagine through the tables.. How does one adjust closed loop? Or we just assume the ECU is commanding the correct parameters for that, and we leave it alone?

Is there a better way to filter the log files? I have basically assumed I should filter out all the closed throttle parts of the log, since it's going as lean as possible, which I guess is to be expected (Well, maybe only 19-20ish).. Do I want to filter for load somehow? Just MAF voltage, lambse, WB?

Thanks guys!
1967 Mustang w/
1987 (to the best of my knowledge) 5.0
MAF Conversion
B303
Ported stock E7 heads and intakes
Tri-Y headers, x-pipe, 2.5" to Spintechs

XantheFIN
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by XantheFIN » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:09 am

I forced Open Loop and fixed until i hit what i wanted via Fuel Table or ECU (LAMBSE) demanded at part throttle, WOT or idle. I understood it this way; when fuel is what ECU wants it does not fix it in Closed Loop.
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JohnnyK
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JohnnyK » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:21 pm

So the best way is to disable closed loop, log it and tune like that, then enable closed?

What to log?

Thanks guys
1967 Mustang w/
1987 (to the best of my knowledge) 5.0
MAF Conversion
B303
Ported stock E7 heads and intakes
Tri-Y headers, x-pipe, 2.5" to Spintechs

decipha

Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by decipha » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:15 pm

you adjust fuel to match lambse not lambse to match fuel

Does matter if its in closed loop or open loop, make the wideband match the lambse

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JohnnyK
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JohnnyK » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:37 am

What I mean, is sometimes, 3v will show rich.. sometimes 3v will show lean.. So how do I know which one to tune for?
1967 Mustang w/
1987 (to the best of my knowledge) 5.0
MAF Conversion
B303
Ported stock E7 heads and intakes
Tri-Y headers, x-pipe, 2.5" to Spintechs

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JonnyRed
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Location: Atlanta, GA.

Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JonnyRed » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:40 pm

I feel your pain.
For example I will dial in 1.5 mafv after datalogging in 3rd gear.
Then when I hit 1.5 mafv in 4th or 5th gear the wideband no longer matches the lambse.
I believe that the way it should work is if you dial in mafv 1.5 in 3rd gear then wb should equal lambse at that mafv regardless of gear, but mine isn't that way.
_________________________________________________________________________
1989 Mustang 5.0 Coupe
Paxton Novi 1220SL Blower 6-8 lbs
CX Racing Power Pipe
Bosch 710N Bypass Valve
GT40P Heads w/ TFS Spring Kit
1.7 Crane Roller Rockers
Unported Explorer Intake
42lb FRPP F302 Injectors
HFP 255 lph Fuel Pump
65mm TB
90 MM Lightning Maf
E303 Cam
T5 Trans
3.27 Rear
MTX-L Wideband
A9P ECM w/ Moates QH

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JohnnyK
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JohnnyK » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:33 pm

That's exactly what I mean.. Or even, I guess, if I tune 1.5v in 3rd, on flat ground, then I guess the load is slightly different on a slight incline, 1.5v no longer is correct.
1967 Mustang w/
1987 (to the best of my knowledge) 5.0
MAF Conversion
B303
Ported stock E7 heads and intakes
Tri-Y headers, x-pipe, 2.5" to Spintechs

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JonnyRed
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:39 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA.

Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JonnyRed » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:03 pm

It makes you feel like your chasing your tail......I am not sure what the answer is.
_________________________________________________________________________
1989 Mustang 5.0 Coupe
Paxton Novi 1220SL Blower 6-8 lbs
CX Racing Power Pipe
Bosch 710N Bypass Valve
GT40P Heads w/ TFS Spring Kit
1.7 Crane Roller Rockers
Unported Explorer Intake
42lb FRPP F302 Injectors
HFP 255 lph Fuel Pump
65mm TB
90 MM Lightning Maf
E303 Cam
T5 Trans
3.27 Rear
MTX-L Wideband
A9P ECM w/ Moates QH

decipha

Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by decipha » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:51 am

If its dialed in at that mafv then it shouldnt change, make sure you hold it steady at that mafv for at least 5 seconds or so for it to stabilize

the lower points of the maf can be dialed in just free reving the engine, hold it at each mafv point for 10 seconds or more and apply your correction then once its dialed in give it more throttle and go to the next point, take it as high as you can 5500-7000 rpm or so, should get all of the daily driving points knocked out and a good idea of how the rest of the curve above should flow

Ruslow
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by Ruslow » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:46 am

I know what I did was have the fuel tables at a set value across the board except the ones at the top of the table[wot or high rpm,load] that way I was not having to refer back to what the table was saying.Just set the w/b to what the table was wanting.made getting that part real easy.then when dialed in went back and adjusted the tables to what I felt rite for my vehicle.Stan

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JohnnyK
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Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by JohnnyK » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:13 pm

decipha wrote:If its dialed in at that mafv then it shouldnt change, make sure you hold it steady at that mafv for at least 5 seconds or so for it to stabilize

the lower points of the maf can be dialed in just free reving the engine, hold it at each mafv point for 10 seconds or more and apply your correction then once its dialed in give it more throttle and go to the next point, take it as high as you can 5500-7000 rpm or so, should get all of the daily driving points knocked out and a good idea of how the rest of the curve above should flow
So revving it up to 5500-7000 will STILL only be the lower points on the maf transfer? Is that because there isn't much air going in because it's not under load?

I would think that 7000rpm in idle will be sucking as much air as under load (volume of the cylinder) and therefore, if I do this in idle, the mafv VS a/f will be completely different once it's under load?

So, break this down for me, since I'm obviously still missing something.

Are the ONLY things I want to look at, Maf Voltage, lambse, and WB, for basic tuning of the maf curve?
1967 Mustang w/
1987 (to the best of my knowledge) 5.0
MAF Conversion
B303
Ported stock E7 heads and intakes
Tri-Y headers, x-pipe, 2.5" to Spintechs

decipha

Re: A few tuning questions now that I have a WB installed!

Post by decipha » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:56 pm

thats the only 4 parameters you need to dial in fuel

mafv
lambse
kamrf
wbo2

airflow is airflow, it doesnt make any difference if its sucking down 100 kg/hr at 7000 rpm free reving, or if its sucking down 100 kg/hr at 2000 rpm cruising, its still sucking the same amount of air and using the same amount of fuel to maintain the same amount of air to fuel ratio

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