Corrupt tune

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soup
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Corrupt tune

Post by soup » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:59 am

So this has happened twice to me, last time about two years ago, the last time I messed with the tune. Thanks to you guys it is pretty solid. But... I get a weird studder at a certain load, air mass maxes out, spark drops, and I can't find an issue. Comparing to old tunes no difference, but when I reload it goes away. Any thoughts on what causes it? Now I know to reload, but I would rather figure out the problem.
347, 11:1 forged, Pmas Maf, 90mm throttle body, BoxR, AFR 185, Shortys, 80 lb inj, A9L2, Silver Fox AOD, 4sd Atlas, 5:13s, EA BE and QH MTX-L , Off road buggy

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cgrey8
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:12 am

Short of a battery problem, I only know of one way that a tune can go corrupt on its own in a QH. Of the 8 tune positions, one is writable at runtime. From what I recall, it's the tune that just happens to be in the same memory block also used for datalogging. It's been a long time, but it seems like it was position 4 on the QH when using BE, but I could be wrong on the actual number.

Point is, if you suspect that the tune is corrupting itself, and it's doing so on a regular enough basis that simply moving to a new position would tell you for sure the problem is gone, then try that and see what happens. Even if it isn't that, if it happens to be "bad" memory on the device, perhaps moving to a different area of the memory chip might help?

With nothing else more to go on, this is the only thing I can think to try, short of swapping the QH for another one.

However if you do determine that it's a tune corrupting itself, the most common culprits of this are misconfigured functions. Functions MUST have the first and last cell of the first column set to values that represent the highest and lowest possible value for the function. I can't remember, but I vaguely recall suggesting to Clint that he add this as a check to BE so a warning can be posted to the user when a function is found that is obviously misconfigured. I don't recall if that ever got into a version of BE or not.

The only other place I recall that a user could cause misbehavior is in the adaptive learning table where you either enter positive values for time to learn in that RPM/Load or you enter negative values to indicate a cell you want to reference. If a non-sensical negative value is entered, then that cell will reference some position outside the table and thus you have no clue what the value will be, but whatever it is, it's a garbage value that will cause your KAMRFs to go to odd values. I discovered this once by entering -89 (intended to enter -79) for a cell when the highest valid value is -84 and the result was it caused my KAMRFs in the RPM/Loads where that -89 was to a value of .50 which ran the engine WAY rich. But even this wouldn't cause the tune to overwrite itself. It'd just cause the recollection of KAMRFs to reference the wrong area of memory and return garbage. But it did affect the engine in a non-intuitive way. Although looking at the BE dashboard while it was misbehaving, the cause was clear so it didn't take me long to figure that one out and correct it.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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motorhead1991
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by motorhead1991 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:19 am

The single largest contributor I've had to this very issue is the MAF curve. Don't touch it while you're driving, or this could result.

There should be a warning screen that pops up for that too.
1990 Ford Ranger FLH2 conversion. Ford forged/dished pistons, Total Seal file-fit rings, Clevite rod and main bearings, Clevite cam bearings, IHI turbo, Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors, Ford slot MAF in custom 3" housing. Moates Quarterhorse with Binary Editor, using the PAAD6 database.

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soup
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by soup » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:14 pm

Thanks for the info. I wouldn't say a regular basis but twice in two years. This vehicle doesn't see much use, so take that as you will. I had to have the battery replaced 3-4 years ago but the symptom there was the forever running fuel pump. Both of these have had weird issues that I could never pin point. I now know to reload the tune with these issues as an additional troubleshooting technique.
347, 11:1 forged, Pmas Maf, 90mm throttle body, BoxR, AFR 185, Shortys, 80 lb inj, A9L2, Silver Fox AOD, 4sd Atlas, 5:13s, EA BE and QH MTX-L , Off road buggy

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cgrey8
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:29 pm

I still say try putting the tune in a different tune position on the QH just to see what happens.

Also if this is a rarely used vehicle, then make sure your QH is the latest hardware revision. The newest versions have two major mods that are worth getting, and I believe are available for free if you just fill out an RMA on the Moates website and send your QH into them. The upgrades are:
  • A user-replaceable lithium battery
  • A circuit that holds up the memory using KAM power, not the battery. This means the coin-cell battery is ONLY used when the QH is not connected to the EEC/vehicle
Also if the car battery often runs down completely dead, then get yourself a batter tinder. They used to be rather pricey, but you can get Schumacker branded battery tinders from Walmart now for ~$25. They aren't as good as the $50-60 ones, but how good do they need to be just to maintain the battery voltage? The tinders are supposed to preserve batteries to keep them from going bad. But more importantly, if your car battery goes completely bad to the point that it won't crank the car, the tinder will keep more than enough voltage on the lines so the QH doesn't pull from the lithium coin-cell. You'd still obviously need a jump-box or some other jump mechanism to get the car cranked, but at least the tune(s) in the QH would still be there.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I bought a new Optima Red Top battery back in 2017 to replace my daily driver's Optima Red Top I bought in 2010. The 2010 was getting weak. It'd still crank the truck, but it cranked the 331 stroker noticeably labored over a "fresh" battery. And if I ran the radio or left the door open for more than about 15-20 minutes, it wouldn't have enough umph to crank the truck at all. But that was perfectly fine for my rarely-driven 97 Ranger with the bone-stock 4.0L V6. The battery's been on that cheap Walmart tinder pretty much ever since I took it out of the daily driver. This past week, I took the 97 Ranger out just to get it on the road a little. And that 2010 Optima Red-top started the truck right up. It didn't even sound weak on the V6. Don't get me wrong, I don't trust the battery and I suspect more than a few days off the tinder would probably require a jump, so I travel with a jump-box just in case.

My point isn't to extol the virtues of Optima batteries, although how many traditional lead-acid batteries have you ever heard of that could crank anything after 9 years, 7 of which were daily-use years? My point is the tinder has kept that old battery healthy-enough to continue to crank the truck even though it is only driven once every few months. It's gone 6-8 months between cranks, and that battery still turns the engine over. I highly recommend anybody with a rarely-driven vehicle to invest in one. And if it's got a QH in it, a battery tinder is a no-brainer to protect your tune(s).
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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nitrouspete
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by nitrouspete » Tue May 14, 2019 6:45 pm

Hi,

Is there a way to verify my QH has the circuit that holds the KAM memory?
I purchased my QH last year 2018 and it has the replaceable battery installed on it.

Peter D.
1990 LX 5.0 sedan. TFS old school heads. Saleen/vortech intake. Vortech S-trim. TR-3550 trans. C3W1 with QH.

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cgrey8
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by cgrey8 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 pm

Look for an L-shaped daughter board on top of the QH main circuit board. It runs from the battery holder down to a pin on the J3 connector. There's silk-screen text on mine that says:
2032+KAM for QH1.3

If your QH has that, then it has the mod that keeps the memory up via vehicle power, not the coin cell.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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nitrouspete
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Re: Corrupt tune

Post by nitrouspete » Fri May 17, 2019 4:20 pm

Just verified my QH. It has the latest mod using the vehicle power to keep the KAM. :P

Thank you CGREY8
1990 LX 5.0 sedan. TFS old school heads. Saleen/vortech intake. Vortech S-trim. TR-3550 trans. C3W1 with QH.

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