Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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67StangWy
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Moates and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:17 am

Little about my build
67 Mustang, Running 351 windsor with foxbody A9M Computer. Had a local performance shop do the install of the motor, trans, and fuel injection tune, etc. 14 months later I finally get my car back with multiple parts and pieces missing and incomplete.
Today, finally have 95% of the issues found and fixed....but have no idea how to tune and get this correctly working. Running Moates 1/4 Horse. I do have Bianary editor with the EEC analyzer I just purchased.

Car is stalling while idling for longer than a minute or so, and coughing and chugging anytime I want to get into it more than 60-70% throttle. I dont even know where to start to be honest, and live in a small town with no shops familiar with Ford and Moates.

Looking for some advice, and hell even willing to pay someone for some base tunes that hopefully get this running as a daily driver.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moates and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:38 am

What year wiring harness and style of transmission are you using? What is fuel pressure and timing set to? What size injectors and MAF meter? What is the current tune you are working with? Need more details on your combo.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:03 am

Wiring harness is a ford wiring harness RFW-COBRA75
T5 Transmission
A9M Computer
Not sure how to check fuel pressure and do you mean base timing, fuel pressure I could check with a gauge but have not.. supposedly it was "tuned correctly"
Injectors are green top from a lightning
Mass Air Flow is stock from Fox Body

Sorry pretty green when it comes to this EFI stuff, thus why I paid someone to "do it right" Built the rest of the car and wanted to go to efi when I built the new motor....starting to regret that decision currently. I know once it is done, it will be well worth it.

But I follow direction and listen haha
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:16 am

67StangWy wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:03 am Wiring harness is a ford wiring harness RFW-COBRA75
T5 Transmission
A9M Computer
Not sure how to check fuel pressure and do you mean base timing, fuel pressure I could check with a gauge but have not.. supposedly it was "tuned correctly"
Injectors are green top from a lightning
Mass Air Flow is stock from Fox Body

Sorry pretty green when it comes to this EFI stuff, thus why I paid someone to "do it right" Built the rest of the car and wanted to go to efi when I built the new motor....starting to regret that decision currently. I know once it is done, it will be well worth it.

But I follow direction and listen haha
Considering you paid to have it tuned right and you feel its not, I would not assume anything. I would check base timing and fuel pressure. The big giveaway is that you are using a stock maf meter with 42# injectors. You will either need to use the Motorsport injector settings for your injectors and tune the maf curve and injector settings accordingly or purchase a calibrated maf meter for your injectors and tune/tweak from there. A wideband would also help but not mandatory. Is the vehicle currently just mechanically tuned or did someone build a base tune for you?
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:23 am

Again supposedly it has a GUFB Strategy File/Base MAP/Tune

His wording on the invoice
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:28 am

67StangWy wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:23 am Again supposedly it has a GUFB Strategy File/Base MAP/Tune

His wording on the invoice
Feel free to post the tune here and we can look at it for you.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:29 am

The Tune File? I will get it plugged in and pulled out shortly.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:17 pm

Yes, you can post the tune here as an attachment if you have it saved or have access to it via the QH.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:50 pm

Finally got the registration file back from clint, now to drudge my way through and figure out how to download the current stategy.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:05 pm

Try this, not sure if this is the correct file, although I am hoping I did not erase my tune in the car, and I went for a drive and it would not start again....after trying to upload the tune from the car smdh
Attachments
Tune.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 359 times
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:10 am

67StangWy wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:05 pm Try this, not sure if this is the correct file, although I am hoping I did not erase my tune in the car, and I went for a drive and it would not start again....after trying to upload the tune from the car smdh
The only difference in the tune you posted and a stock A9M is the tune position is different. Unless you have a tune selector knob on your QH, that is wrong also.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:44 am

Great haha, I will hook up to it again shortly and see if I erased the tune that was in the car, and if not how to upload it.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:51 am

67StangWy wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:44 am Great haha, I will hook up to it again shortly and see if I erased the tune that was in the car, and if not how to upload it.
You should be able to just read the tune and save it to your desktop or file folder. Uploading is the same way you just did here on the forum.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:08 am

Yea that is what I meant, how to upload it from the Car to the BE. I'll know shortly on the disaster.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:07 am

How about this?
Attachments
Tune3.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 332 times
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:10 am

Or this one,
Attachments
Tune2.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 342 times
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:20 am

Tune 2 seems to be the one....looking at it now...
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:22 am

After playing a little in the BE I believe that the Tune 2 is the one that was loaded from the car.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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EDS50
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:23 am

looking through tune 2 and 3 when comparing them to a factory a9m, tune 3 has no changes but tune 2 does.
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:28 am

That is what I saw as well when I figured out the compare button....still clueless as to the rest, but now I know I can't hurt anything unless I write over it, and have saved my original template aside. So with some help and some continued reading I am sure I can figure out the basics.

I appreciate the help, thanks again for giving up some time, hopefully you have some input into what may or not me going wrong.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:30 am

Looking through tune 2, There are quite a few settings I would question and change....putting it nicely :wink:
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:36 am

I can believe it, I have driven and built many Carb cars, and I feel this should run much better and smoother, but like I said ti make me want to go back to carb. I know that is not the answer and I need to struggle through this learning curve..just frustrating. I will probably take it down to Colorado once this Corona is done and hopefully have a dynotuned. But would like to put some miles on it and work out kinks instead of waiting three months....hell if I can get it running right I wont even need that done.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:40 am

EDS50 wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:30 am Looking through tune 2, There are quite a few settings I would question and change....putting it nicely :wink:
I am willing to work with you to get some changes made for the positive, I know it is tough without being here, and dont mind compensating some $$ as well for your time.
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:50 am

No money needed, the reason why this forum exists is because we like to help out and pay it forward. The tune is easy to get straightened out for you, just need some specific information....

Is your motor a 351 or 351 base stroker motor because it is currently set at 500 cu.in. and nothing is load scaled so thats way out in left field.
any power adder or N/A?
Do you have a tune switch/knob?
is there a vehicle speed sensor installed on the transmission?
Are you using the ecm to control the electric fans?
Is the EGR being used?
Is the canister purge solenoid and charcoal canister being used?
What elevation are you at?
What Fuel are you using?
What cam heads intake? Fuel system, ignition? etc...etc...etc...
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:09 pm

351 Windsor, actually bored .10 over
I do not have a tune switch knob currently....something for the future, I believe I need to have that in case the battery dies down the road in the QH
There is not a vehicle speed sensor on my T5, is that something I need to add?
Fans are not controlled by the ECM...
No charcoal canister, no purge solenoid for it.
Elevation is 5118
91 Octane Fuel
Cam was a custom cut cam from bullit for the motor,trans,altitude,etc, let me see if I can find the specs it has been aboout 2 years, was a mild street cam
Heads are Trick Flow Twisted Wedge
Fuel is powered by a HFP920 fuel pump, BBK Fuel Rails, and BBK Throttle Body (is larger than oem for 5.0)
Lightning lower intake, Cobra Upper Intake
MSD Distributor
Long Tube Headers
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:10 pm

Photos
IMG_0888.jpg
IMG_0888.jpg (113.04 KiB) Viewed 15590 times
IMG_0909.jpg
IMG_0909.jpg (126.36 KiB) Viewed 15590 times
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:18 pm

When Bullit comes back from Lunch I will call them to see if they have record of the cut still.

Believe from what I have in my notes
Lift Int .536 Exh. .533
Duration@050 Int. 234 Exh 242
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by EDS50 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:26 pm

67StangWy wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:18 pm When Bullit comes back from Lunch I will call them to see if they have record of the cut still.

Believe from what I have in my notes
Lift Int .536 Exh. .533
Duration@050 Int. 234 Exh 242
No worries for the exact specs. Just needed a general idea.
EGR?
Smog pump?
Turn your maf meter around so the electronics are on top.
42# injectors?
Stock maf meter from what?
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

2003 Mach 1 - Core Tuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Pypes X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, K&N CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, Eibach Pro Series Plus Suspension, Steeda Adj. Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, 315/35/17's.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:31 pm

No EGR no Smog
Will swap that right now for the MAF
MAF is from a 5.0 mustang....92 I Believe

42 Pound Injectors yes..Lime Green
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

67StangWy
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Re: Moats and EEC Tuning Help

Post by 67StangWy » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:33 pm

E9ZF-12B579-AA
AFH55-03

Maf part number
67 Mustang, 351W, T5, Lightning injectors, Lightning MAF, Twisted Wedge Heads, Custom Cut Cam, TanksInc Tank and Fuel Pump, 328hp to the wheels at mile high altitude.

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