Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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EECTruck
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Changing configured engine displacement

Post by EECTruck » Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:06 pm

Hello!
As seen in my ‘signature’ my ride is supercharged 460 powered F-350 running an EEC-IV from a FoxBody. I tried finding similar topics of others changing displacement but I didn’t have much luck. I also searched along the lines of ‘FKARC’ and figuring the formula but there was only one post.
Any direction and/or help is much appreciated 🫡
Thanks!
1996 Ford F-350 CC LB 4x4
Kenne Bell SC 460 converted to MAF & SFI, Banks Torque Tubes, EEC-IV, GUFB, Moates QH via Binary Editor
ZF-5 Speed

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cgrey8
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Re: Changing configured engine displacement

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:30 am

I'm not sure I caught a question in all that. But just looking over your signature, here are my thoughts...

Take a stock A9L (or similar GUFB bin) and update it with the following:
  • Update CID (SARCHG in GUFB)
  • Update the MAF curve with whatever MAF you are using
  • Update the Injector Slope/Breakpoint scalars & Offset curve values with whatever injectors you are using. I think it is safe to say you aren't (or shouldn't be) using stock 19lb injectors.
  • Also don't forget about your injector cranking PWs. The PWs in the stock tune will assume 19lb injectors and may be too long of a pulse for higher flowing injectors. Most of the times, being somewhat rich while cold will not prevent the engine from cranking especially if the fuel delivery gets closer once the engine starts. But having these values incorrect may cause the engine to NOT crank when hot. Engines tend to be less tolerant of overly-rich cranking conditions when warm/hot...at least that's been my experience with my engines. YMMV
  • I am not that familiar with the 460 to know if its firing order is different from a 302HO/351w. But if it is, you'll need to alter your injector firing order so SEFI fires the injectors in the right order. A quick search suggests the 460 has the non-HO 302 firing order.
  • Personally, I also like to set Load%=Load so I don't have to think about it and then tune this way. It's slightly wasteful, but not so much that I care. But then again, I've never tuned a boosted engine, so you might get different advice from someone actually experienced with boosted applications.
Now if you are wanting to make things a little easier, some people do run stock GT MAF and injectors just so they minimize what's changing in the tune while they get a new build started and checked out. Just keep in mind, you will likely have to tweak the Injector Cranking PW function since the amount of air aspirated per cylinder at crank won't be the same on a built 460 as it will be with a 302. As mentioned above, it'll be most finicky when HOT. Stock values might actually crank the engine while cold. I don't have any specific guidance here on how much you should adjust the values. This may be a trial-n-error effort to get right. One thing I will say is for the longest time, I never drove anywhere without starting fluid so if I happened to be running a tune that just didn't want to crank the engine hot, I could get it started with a shot of ether.

Then once the tune is driveable, then swap out the MAF...get that working. Then swap out the injectors and again get that smoothed out. And with that, you can start getting into it a bit. Changing 1 thing at a time can be a better strategy than trying to change a bunch of stuff at once ESPECIALLY when you are new to DIY tuning. Just be disciplined enough to NOT get anywhere near WOT as you'll run a boosted 460 lean in a heartbeat if you aren't careful using stock 302 MAF & injectors.

Now there are a ton of other changes that'll be needed to accommodate the boost levels, but these changes are minimum to get the engine started and running so you can start honing in other settings. Don't expect it to run well with just these settings, but these MIGHT be close-enough to get it to crank.

Once you get the engine to run well enough to crank & idle, this is the time to let it get up to temp and start checking over everything. Check for things like vac/oil/coolant leaks. Check for bad plugs, plug wires, injectors, etc. Once all that looks good, you can start doing a combination of tweaking the tune and light driving. Until the tune is setup for boost, DO NOT get into it.

So how do you set it up for boost? The main thing here is to get the fuel and spark tables capable of responding to Load levels above 85%. Depending on how much boost you are running, you will likely be able to hit 115-160% load levels.

And if you do decide to maintain Load%, you'll eventually need to tweak the Load% function to report actual engine capacity in percentage. The point of Load% is to reflect actual engine potential. When Load% is being calculated perfectly, every RPM at WOT should result in Load%=100% meaning you are getting 100% of the engine's capacity.

Compare that to Load, which is simply the amount of air going into the engine relative to the CID. 100% Load should correlate to when the air aspirated every 2 rotations is equal to the engine's CID. This isn't perfectly true depending on humidity, temperature, and barometric pressure which alter the volume of air relative to its mass...so again, it's an estimate but as it turns out, that doesn't matter. Knowing the mass of air flow going into the engine is FAR more valuable than knowing the CFM hence why EECs use MAF sensors.

Depending on what heads/cam/boost levels you are running, there are probably some people out there that can recommend some safe ignition timing values to run. They WILL NOT be the same as a stock GT 302's tune.

That should get you started...at least well enough for you to get more info about what you are dealing with and come back here with more specific questions related to specific problems you are encountering...and there will be plenty of them if this is your first DIY tuning experience.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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EECTruck
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Re: Changing configured engine displacement

Post by EECTruck » Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:28 am

Thank you for your help and direction!
Sorry, I didn't post a very clear question :shock: . Overall, what I was trying to say was the EEC reverted back to its original tuning which was for a 302 Powered Fox Body Mustang and I needed the help here to retune/reprogram the EEC for a 460 Big Block Ford.

Yes, you're also right that I am not running 19 lb. injectors. For the time being, the truck is running on its stock 24 lb. blue top injectors - not great either. When I find the money tree for a new injector set, I'd like Ford's 42 lb. injectors (XL3Z-9F593-AA or AB) that were in the 1999 Lightening Trucks. Quite frankly though, I'd like to know what injectors you all would suggest.

I have also referenced this playlist on YouTube... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 7SEcyDhgda
1996 Ford F-350 CC LB 4x4
Kenne Bell SC 460 converted to MAF & SFI, Banks Torque Tubes, EEC-IV, GUFB, Moates QH via Binary Editor
ZF-5 Speed

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cgrey8
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Re: Changing configured engine displacement

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:53 am

If the EEC reverted, this would suggest it was running a non-stock tune at one point.

The only way it could've done that is for someone to have chipped the EEC. These older EECs were not programmable without the help of external hardware. The hardware can range from a simple tune-holding chip to a full-up datalogger that interfaces with a laptop so you can update the tune(s) and get real-time datalogging of the engine running (e.g. Moates Quarterhorse or TwEECer).

So if it reverted, it's likely because the hardware hosting the 460 tune was removed or went bad.

The edge-connector connections are known to have issues, but they are usually bad from the get-go. I've not heard many people complain that the connection went bad with just time. And I've heard even fewer people that say when the connection is bad, the EEC actually attempts to run the stock tune. Most of the time when the connection is bad, the EEC is completely unresponsive when powered. But I guess anything's possible, so you could try cleaning the edge connector and reinstalling the chip to see if that helps. Just make sure the ignition is OFF. Preferably, unplug the EEC from the wiring harness completely before messing with any edge-connected EEC-IV/V tuning device. EECs have been known to be fried by people unplugging them "hot."
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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EECTruck
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Re: Changing configured engine displacement

Post by EECTruck » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:36 pm

If the EEC reverted, this would suggest it was running a non-stock tune at one point.

Oh absolutely it was running a non-stock tune! The C3W EEC-IV most certainly was not original to my F-350. The previous owner purchased the computer and a Moates Quarter Horse to really tune the engine together with the Kenne Bell Supercharger. As to how the tune was lost is fun story. My oldest son, as a two-year old, was playing in my truck pretending to drive. Throughout his play, he turned on the interior cab lights and as I collected him to go inside the house, I didn't notice that those lights were on. What I didn't realize is that the battery on the QH that keeps the memory alive was dead and the EEC was fine and programmed as long as the truck battery was alive. Once the truck battery died, goodbye to the tune - thus forcing me to learn to tune.
1996 Ford F-350 CC LB 4x4
Kenne Bell SC 460 converted to MAF & SFI, Banks Torque Tubes, EEC-IV, GUFB, Moates QH via Binary Editor
ZF-5 Speed

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cgrey8
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Re: Changing configured engine displacement

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:41 pm

Yeah you probably should've led with that story to explain what you were actually fighting.

Next you are going to tell us you don't have a backup of the original tune that was put in there nor a way to get them.

So, now you need to retune the engine. Refer to all the points I made above about getting started tuning. I don't know what else to say.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

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