At a loss

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Mon Jul 14, 2025 8:06 pm

So about 5 years ago I built my current fox running 06 take off 24lb injectors using a c&l 76mm mass air and it ran pretty good. Decided to swap to microsquirt and ran it for around 4 years, which brings us back to current. I decided to swap back to my a9l and use my quarterhorse I picked up a couple years ago and I can not get the car to run normal anymore. ive gone simple to start and used the c&l transfer numbers, 24lb numbers from efidynotuning and turned off the three smogs. and it just goes lean. Ive gone as far as turning only smog stuff off and just using the MAF as is with being calibrated for 24lb, used stock maf and adjusted injector settings and still the same. Currently with stock meter and 24lb injector settings I have to add around 50% to the maf curve to get afr around 15 (running a wideband as well as the narrowbands). What or where can I look? Car has trickflow upper and lower, lunati cam (clone of tf1) brodix st 5.0 heads. Thanks

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:02 am

Working with two unknowns, and you are surprised? Without a log and tune, there isn't much help I can offer.
I would remove one of the unknowns to dial in the other. Do you have a stock MAF lying around? You could dial in the unknown injectors. That's assuming the engine is healthy, the electrical system is solid, and fuel pressure is stable.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 9:03 am

injectors and mass air are both known, it all worked well before switching to microsquirt. As I mentioned in the post I have ran stock mass air and changed injector data and still need to add at least 50% to start making it happy.

Odrapnew · Post by **Odrapnew** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 1:14 pm

Sorry, wall of questions below.

When you say, 'it just goes lean' is that open loop, closed loop, both?
What do your O2 sensor show?
What's your MAF sensor voltage at idle?
Possible you have a massive vacuum leak that the MS compensated for?

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 1:49 pm

so most of the time it will go lean from a cold start during the enrichment stage, 02's are showing lean as well as wideband. mass air voltage is around 1 volt. interesting you bring up vacuum leak as that has been floating in my mind lately just not alot of time to do some serious checking. I do have a short datalog i can add

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 2:53 pm

Who flowed the C&L meter for the data?

Odrapnew · Post by **Odrapnew** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:17 pm

At 1V maf, what is the flow of the transfer curve?

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:18 pm

when I tried to input maf transfer I started with the flow numbers from eec analyzer. I have also tried leaving everything stock in the tune except for purge egr and thermactor being turned off

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:20 pm

Odrapnew wrote: ↑Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:17 pm At 1V maf, what is the flow of the transfer curve?

on stock or when I have modified it? im around 49 kg/hr when ive increased it

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 5:46 pm

Clear KAM
Take your stock maf curve, multiply the Kg/Hr column by 1.26. (24/19) You confirmed the #24 sample tube, right?
Set hi & low injector slope to 24. and see how its running. If it runs ok, log a fully warmed up idle.

The emission stuff should not matter at this stage. What's the maf voltage at idle, just curious.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:09 pm

having a hard time getting the first log to upload as it says its to big so trying to zip it. started pretty good and came up to temp. did a restart when it was hot and it started to go lean the second smaller log I tried to catch that but only caught a small bit of it. maf voltage was a bit higher at 1.10 where before its been around 1.02

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:16 pm

got all 3 files zipped here

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 8:37 am

Cannot open the zip.
Looked at the .csv log and saw:
no closed loop, KAMRF never moves off 1
it is lean at idle by about 1 point.
idles at just above 1v, but this really means nothing. Its within reasonable range.

Try 30 for low slope.
Not sure why KAMRF has not moved at all in that log. Again, only looking for a hot restart log still.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 9:48 am

That log that posted was a hot restart and fairly short. I can email you the cold start up to temp its about 14mb and this site wont let me upload it

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 11:44 am

No need for a cold start. Fastest way to dial in the fuel is a hot start. Once fuel is dialed in, I find that cold start settings are fine stock.

I thought about the 30 low slope, it is going the wrong way. (my bad) The hot log will tell.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 1:04 pm

ok, the one post you wanted it logged from a cold start. I will warm it up first then do a logged hot restart. anything you want logged or all of it? would it be to late to toss the c&l meter on and go from there? Also what about voltage offsets for the injector? leave them as they are?

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 4:37 pm

That log is with a stock maf??

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 4:45 pm

that one currently was yes. I had been trying several different combos to try and figure out what was going on, and no matter what I tried I needed about 50% increase on the maf to start making it happy. Ive got a stock meter and a C&L that I used before I ever had the quarterhorse or microsquirt. I think I even have a sn95 maf sitting around in storage. I will swap back to the C&L and run the tune again

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 5:04 pm

Thats not good, it should be 25% rich. Have you verified fuel pressure?

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 5:11 pm

yes, pressure is good 38ish line on and 42ish off

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 5:58 pm

The injectors are either not 24s, or clogged.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 7:22 pm

I had two ideas in the back of my mind, eitheer they are getting gummed up or a big vacuum leak. the car sits from nov to march the last 3 years since moving from washington to montana. the injectors and c&l were working well for year when i first put the combo together before I had the quarterhorse to tune it with. the only hiccup I had was after installing one of the egr delete plugs I would get a cruise ping/stumble. gonna try your injector settings and log it and post them shortly

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 8:04 pm

so i did 2 datalogs using the c&l and both injector settings you suggested and the mass air transfer at 1.26 the two datalogs have the injector settings in the name

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Wed Jul 16, 2025 8:34 pm

Also got the info off of my injectors and this is it
4l8e-a4a
9f593 244
7324f13555

https://www.injectorplanet.com/products ... 3795822810

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 7:39 am

The issue is not the actual data for the injectors. Based on the log, they are acting like 14lb injectors when you enter the data. The log looked solid otherwise, I don't think its vacuum a leak issue.

I suggest a sanity check. Load an unmodified a9l bin and hot start log that. I really would like to try to remove the QH, but then you cannot log, so a stock bin is the only option.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 7:54 am

Will do tonight, I didnt have much luck with stock to start with which is what brought me here. Funny you mention 14lb as after I was done I was messing with some injectors settings and 14 was acting fairly good. Trying to find someone around eastern montana to clean the injectors is rough so I may just buy new. Thinking about going bigger if I do. Would it be as simple as increasing the maf transfer a similar percentage as the injector increase to startbwith? And which maf transfer would the c&l need to start with? The stock transfer or the c&l transfer that eec analyzer has in it?

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 8:08 am

I would suggest 30# injectors. I'm also wondering if your C&L @24# is enoght MAF, so keep that in mind when WOT tuning.

No need to match maf and injectors when you have a QH. That was for adding larger injectors before we had tools to tune the calibration.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 8:13 am

I understand not needing to match with the meter just not sure which transfer numbers I would start with in this case. Im looking at some of the frpp 47lb

JuiceSC · Post by **JuiceSC** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 8:55 am

tufgriz wrote: ↑Thu Jul 17, 2025 8:13 am I understand not needing to match with the meter just not sure which transfer numbers I would start with in this case. Im looking at some of the frpp 47lb

Are you planning on any power adders? 47s would work but its overkill NA.

Keep it simple when starting from scratch:
Hi & low slopes-just enter what injector # you have, and enter Maf transfer, and set idle to 850. Hot start log, just make changes to slopes and or maf only until fueling 'fairly close'. low slope and breakpoint are fine tuning adjustments for later in the tuning process.

This would be my pick if I was building this: https://lmr.com/item/LRS-37264/mustang- ... 3-8604-ev1
I see some 47's on that page, and LMR lists them for 99up mustang.And I'm not sure what the reason for that is.

tufgriz · Post by **tufgriz** » Thu Jul 17, 2025 9:49 am

I would like to down the road, but we will see how that goes

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