Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Cougar5.0
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Post by Cougar5.0 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:13 pm

I've gone with "car runs now, will figure out why and how to do it correctly later". You'll figure out why at some point 8)
428w now

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Post by Davin » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:52 am

yeah, I was thinging about messing with the OL fuel multipliers and trying to lean the commanded LAMBSE as bit and then not tale so much of the ol base fuel decay table but perhaps I should just be happy that it seems to be working (for now) :D
Lastly, does anyone have an opinion of whether I should go back and just affect the changes in the 120-180 degree columns where I was having the problems, or would logic suggest that if the changes are needed there that they would be helpful accross the board(table)?

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Post by stanger007 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:44 am

I would just change them in the areas that you are having problems.

When cold weather comes you'll probably need the additional fuel in the startup process - fuel tends to puddle up on cold metal rather than stay atomized.

Wes
'95 GT Auto - CBAZA 'vert [11.01@127.65 on 154k stock shortblock]
'72 Mach 1 - A9L EFI Conversion Complete, FAST ECM/331/Turbos next
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Post by 2Shaker » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:28 pm

I agree with Wes. I adjusted all rows on my table and it starts good hot but not so good when it is in the 30's. I suspect if I ever tried it at 0 it would laugh at me... :-) Just change the ones you are having trouble with.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by Davin » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:39 pm

cool, thanks guys, hopefully this will stick.. Have a good 4th.

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:06 am

While I think a lot of the problem is sloved, when it is hot (95+) and humid like after a rain, I still have some issues. This might be old news here, but it appears that the low LAMSE commanded by my car is a product of the base_fuel_table_cold table and Open Loop Fuel Multiplier vs ACT function. (decay table for that hot start range is zeroed so a non-factor) When I do the math it seems to account for why my startup LAMBSE is around 10.75. Two questions, 1. Can I screw anything unrelated up by scaling that multiplier down a little. and 2. How can I log actual AFR, I see its place on the CALCon but I don't see it on the Payload variables tab of CALEdit.

thanks

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Post by stanger007 » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:19 am

The hot weather starts are an issue down here in Louisiana. You can scale back your OL startup fuel with no problems that I know of. I will say that when I was having surging starts, my car was targeting something like 12:3:1 on a hot start. As this gets taken away towards 14:7 the surge disappears.

It's worth mentioning that if your car didn't do this before any modifications you might want to look there instead of tuning around a problem. My car did it from the get-go, however before any mods and after testing/replacing all the sensors that have input at that stage in the game.

To log AFR you'll have to buy an aftermarket wideband O2 sensor - the sensors that come with the car only read 14.64:1 and whether or not you are richer or leaner than that, but no specific #s.

Wes
'95 GT Auto - CBAZA 'vert [11.01@127.65 on 154k stock shortblock]
'72 Mach 1 - A9L EFI Conversion Complete, FAST ECM/331/Turbos next
'07 GT Auto [12.86@107 Tune/Boltons]
Total Performance Solutions Dynotuner

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:50 am

cool, that makes sense. The problem has been there since I dropped the new engine in about 3400 miles ago but was not as bad in the winter.

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Post by 2Shaker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:10 pm

Davin,

Can you update your "signature" (profile) to reflect your car details so that when others want to help we know what we are dealing with? Thanks.

Wes mentions above the Startup OL table. I think that is what you have already zeroed (or close to zero). The OL ACT multiplier is an area I didn't think of. I have modified that one myself for high ACT's at the end of a run at the strip because I have a ProCharger. As I recall the modifier starts to kick in at around 116 degrees. You would need ambient air to be above that to cause your problem, or the ACT sensor is faulty. Alternatively I suppose the air in the intake pipe/filter might be close to that after sitting for a while in the hot sun, but even after you crank a bit that will be purged and get close to ambient.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:17 pm

2Shaker, sorry about the sig, I have one, I just hadn't been attaching it to every response, I've been on some boards where people get a little pissy about that for some reason. Anyway, let me know if anything is lacking in my sig.

As for ACT temp, when my ECT is around 180-196 at start, my ACT tends to be around 136-150. I have a scalar that sets my ECT Minimum for hot start at 170 degrees but I don't see a corresponding ECT scalar. There is also a OL fuel vs ECT multiplier but it's values over 60* are zero, so this wouldn't be a factor. I was assuming that the ACT multiplier was used in parallel to the ECT multiplier. For instance, if my computer read 190*ECT, it would multiply my base OL fuel table x1, and then based on 126*ACT it would multiply that product by ~.71, and that once it got done with this (and other steps?) it would trim that value by the base fuel decay value and yield the LAMBSE. I'm just guessing here though based on what I see.
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:28 pm

that was interesting, I changed the multiplier in the anticipated range from .78 to .85. My base table at that load called for around 14:1, before, I was stalling with a LAMBSE of 10.7, after the change it was starting good at around 11.8, it seemed stronger, but we'll see if it works this time.
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by cgrey8 » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:36 pm

Davin wrote:...sorry about the sig, I have one, I just hadn't been attaching it to every response, I've been on some boards where people get a little pissy about that for some reason. Anyway, let me know if anything is lacking in my sig...
You can enter your sig into your profile so you don't have to manually add it each time you make a post. Main things that need to be in a sig are:
  • Car Year and Make
  • Engine and any mods
  • EEC code and tuning device
  • Tranny
  • Mods peripheral to engine/tranny such as exhaust, MAF, ignition etc
Looks like you got it covered...
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Post by 2Shaker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:30 pm

Davin wrote:As for ACT temp, when my ECT is around 180-196 at start, my ACT tends to be around 136-150.
Hey, that ain't right! ACT should be close to ambient! Where is it located? Is it in the manifold or in the air intake tubing?
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:47 pm

I used to have a metal/chrome "cold air" kit. I removed the fender bend part but I kept the metal portion that connects the MAF sensor casing (plastic) to the throttle body. The ACT is threaded into that portion of the tube. Do you think that's a problem or could the sensor be faulty?
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by 2Shaker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:50 pm

I can't recall if the sensor requires grounding, so that may be the problem, or the sensor is bad. Maybe the sensor is situated above the headers such that now it is getting heat soaked after a run and shut down for a few minutes. Whatever the reason, there is no way you should be seeing an ACT in that range on start - unless you are in Death Valley!
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by Cougar5.0 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:01 am

Are you pulling in air from under the hood?
428w now

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Post by Davin » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:33 am

Cougar - yep, got a big fat K&N where the stock air box used to be. Nothing fancy blocking the under hood air. Perhaps I should try pulling the ACT sensor sealing the hole and logging with underhood air out of the intake tube?
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by 2Shaker » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:42 pm

Hey Davin, I expect that if you went ahead and set the Open Loop Fuel Multiplier vs ACT funtion to a value of "1" in all columns it would remove this function from being a problem at start. In fact, you might have to go back to the startup table and put values back in there. By the way, J4J1 has this function set at a value of 1 in all columns. In that calibration they pull timing instead of richening the mix on high ACT. Try it. But if you ever put a blower on that thing you need to turn the function back on.

Ultimately you want an accurate temperature reading of the air the motor is ingesting.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Re: I am getting SO SICK of my car dying! Please help!

Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:56 pm

Davin wrote:My car starts great when cold, but over 180-190 degrees, it surges and dies EVERY TIME. It would be so nice to have a car that would just run. I've researched some and tired some fixes but nothing seems to work. Here are the SCALER changes I have made:

Scaler Name: Action Taken
EGR System Type changed from "0" to "2"; 2 = off
Idle in Gear (RPM) changed to "720"
Idle in Neutral (RPM) changed to "720"
ISC Maximum Drive RPM changed to "840"
ISC Maximum Closed Throttle Idle changed to "840"
Engine Displacement changed to "347"
fan_high_speed_ECT1_on changed to "196"
fan_high_speed_ECT2_on changed to "200"
fan_high_speed_ECT_off changed to "190"
fan_low_speed_ECT_off changed to "182"
fan_low_speed_ECT_on changed to "188"
Injector Slope High changed to "30.5"
Injector Slope Low changed to "38.5"
fuel_injector_breakpoint 0.00001975
fuel_injector_min_pulse_width 0.000005
Load Scaling Switch changed to "0"
spark_adder_global changed to "6"
Thermactor Present changed to "0"

I have taken the values in the "fuel_crank_PW_multiply_ECT" and
"Injector Offset V Batt Voltage" Functions and modified them by a factor or .63 to reflect my 30# inj (19/30=.63)
My MAF file is the stock PROM_30.MAF file that comes with the install.

I've made minor chages (+2-4 degrees) in the spark tables but the problem has been around before that and going back to stock tables does not improve matters. Please help me solve this once and for all.

Thanks
Hey listen your car is a lot like mine. I'm running U4P0. You can see the project here in my IKANDE album

http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247 ... 20Project/

Note I was running a PRO-M 36lb unit in the pictures. I later REMOVED that sensor, mounted a FACTORY sensor into the PRO-M housing. I have 36lb injectors. This is for my 331.

After some tuning I have eliminated the similar problems you are having. I can email you my tune if you like. CBAZA

My biggest benefit was letting the EA help me curve my MAF, idle, and load settings.

Patrick.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
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Post by 2Shaker » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:01 pm

patrickmx2,

why did you convert your Fox body to CBAZA? Generally people here in the forum seem to think CBAZA is more conservative and difficult to tune than GUFB.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:09 pm

2Shaker wrote:patrickmx2,

why did you convert your Fox body to CBAZA? Generally people here in the forum seem to think CBAZA is more conservative and difficult to tune than GUFB.
The biggest reason was to take care of my AODE without having to spend $700 on an external controller. Initially I was (forgive me) setting it up to run with AEM EMS. I had the unit and dual wide band controller. Got the car built came the day to start it. Slapped in an EEC I had laying around instead of the AEM.

Long story short, my oldest son was diagnosed with DMD (worst form of Muscular Dystrophy) in June 2005. I began building this car in Jan of 2005. It has 250 miles on it today.

Due to lack of time, and growing lack of interest I have sold the AEM, stuck with the Tweecer R/T's on two of my cars (SSP car is original, no tuning - in my albums) and now I'm parting out the DSS project motor and will install another Explorer motor with E303 cam and retain the AODE and have two street cars. There is no cure for DMD. So maybe down the road there will be time for racing if I'm still interested.

I have found CBAZA to be challenging. Especially with this combo. But the EA made it much easier to deal with than I anticipated. And honestly the AEM looked like a handful.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:21 pm

This is my cranking PW VS ECT function which I think helped me the most. It would crank and go dead.

65534.00 0.62
230.00 0.62
210.00 0.56
180.00 0.56
120.00 0.56
70.00 0.56
40.00 2.10
20.00 2.89
0.00 4.01
-20.00 6.55
-65536.00 6.55

These are my stock numbers for reference.

65534.00 0.80
230.00 0.80
210.00 0.68
180.00 0.68
120.00 0.80
70.00 1.80
40.00 3.60
20.00 5.08
0.00 7.20
-20.00 12.00
-65536.00 12.00

Other things I changed.
Dashpot pre position
Desired Idle Airflow - prevented dying in gear.
ISC Neutral Idle air

There are more. PM me your email if you want a binary.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

Davin
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Holes in the base fule table?

Post by Davin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:47 am

Patrick - thanks for the tune, I continue to go over it.

One thing I don't get is the stock CBAZA base fuel table (note that I separated it into two tables below for formatting purposes:

Load - ECT -30 0 30 60 90
0.89 8.4668 8.0092 9.4966 10.297 12.357
0.8 8.4668 8.4668 9.9542 10.526 12.929
0.7 8.8101 8.8101 10.412 10.984 13.73
0.55 9.0389 9.4966 10.641 11.67 13.959
0.39 9.3822 10.297 10.984 12.586 13.616
0.27 10.412 11.098 12.128 13.272 14.073
0.14 11.67 12.471 13.158 13.959 14.645
0.07 12.357 13.043 13.73 14.302 14.989

Load - ECT 120 150 180 210 240
0.89 12.357 12.357 12.014 12.014 12.014
0.8 13.158 13.501 13.616 13.616 12.929
0.7 13.959 13.959 14.302 14.302 13.158
0.55 13.959 13.959 14.302 14.302 13.272
0.39 13.959 13.959 14.531 14.302 13.73
0.27 14.073 14.073 14.073 14.073 14.073
0.14 14.645 14.645 14.645 14.645 14.073
0.07 14.645 14.645 14.645 14.645 14.073

If you note that at most temperatures, the commanded LAMBSE has a linear relationship ascending from high load to low at temperatures -30 through 60*. At 90* it has a blip at .39 load that is not linear. 120*-150* is again linear. MOST CRITICAL to my problem though is at .27 load x 180*-210*, where for some reason the LAMBSE value drops by around .6 and then jumps back up. This is right where I hot start. Are other strategies like this? Is there any good reason the values are set this way?
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by patrickmx2 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:40 am

If I read that right you are noting where it starts to richen back up at 210. In other words if you could draw a line from -30 to 240 the line would hit a peak at about 180-200 and then start to go back down. I'm guessing that even at lower loads the extra fuel could be for cooling purposes at higher temps as well as preventing detonation if any at those low loads. Higher loads I could understand which is what leads me to think that if the engine is that hot it is used for a little cooling effect.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Post by Davin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:36 am

actually I meant reading the chart from top to bottom, not left to right..
take the 180* column. Start at the bottom (.07 load) as the load increases, the LABSE goes down (gets richer) as a trend. Accept for .27 where it dips down from 14.645 to 14.073 and then pops back up to 14.302 (@.39) and then continues to decrease. What I don't understand is that if the strategy for a given temperature in the chart is usually to lean fuel as load decreases, than why is it that below .39 load does the fuel richen to 14.073 and then lean again at .14 load? Its not linear..does that make sense?
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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Post by sailorbob » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:29 am

Don't assume it should be linear, Ford spend a lot of time on the dynos and you do get variances.

patrickmx2
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Post by patrickmx2 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:41 am

Yes I see what you mean.
I typically stay in the last 3 columns on the right, subtract one. Meaning I'm not in the 240 range if ever. Right now my car is locked in OL while cruising. I've done all I can with 14.7 and the stock O2's. I'm running a wide band and getting better mileage with the table below. I'm averaging between 3 and 4 mpg better. My car typically cruises in the bottom 3 rows. Note that I richen up in the next to last row while the bottom row is lean and the 3rd row is leaner than the 2nd. On Decels just prior to injector shut off I want it lean but I don't want an engine brake. If I loose to much speed coming down hills I have to build that speed back up and that takes gas. On the other hand if I'm coming to a stop the injectors do eventually shut off at closed throttle and I get excellent engine braking. The thing is I idle in that second row and in slowing down the car would surge and trailer hitch (buck). So I tried some things and ended up richening it up and it smoothed back out. I think it was hunting due to the loads, rich/lean/rich/lean, etc.. hitting the table above, then below, so the second row ended up needing more fuel. This was occurring at the lightest of throttle input and on decels rolling along at 30 in traffic, etc...

My A9P from the above car.
13.15 13.15 12.70 12.58 12.58 12.58 13.04 13.15 13.15 13.04
13.15 13.15 13.15 13.95 13.95 13.04 13.04 13.38 13.38 13.38
13.15 13.15 13.15 13.95 13.95 13.95 13.04 13.38 13.38 12.58
13.15 13.15 13.15 13.95 14.30 14.64 14.64 15.21 15.21 13.50
13.15 13.15 13.15 13.50 13.95 14.30 14.98 16.81 16.81 14.64
13.15 13.15 13.15 13.50 14.64 14.64 14.64 18.07 18.07 14.64
14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 14.64 16.81 17.04 14.07
16.13 16.13 15.33 14.30 14.64 14.64 14.64 20.02 20.02 14.30


Now to my 331 and CBAZA like you mention.
Note the J4J1 Cobra EEC (CBAZA) does not do this. (last three columns)

11.90 11.90 11.55
14.30 14.30 12.92
14.30 14.30 13.95
14.30 14.30 13.95
14.30 14.30 13.95
14.30 14.30 13.95
13.95 13.95 13.95
13.95 13.95 13.95

These are the RPM based tables. Left most 500-1500 RPM
J4J1
13.15 13.04 12.70
13.15 13.04 12.70
13.61 13.50 13.04
13.95 13.95 13.50
14.30 14.30 13.95
14.64 14.64 13.95
14.98 14.30 13.95
14.98 14.30 13.95


Compared back to the U4P0

12.35 12.35 12.47
12.35 12.35 12.47
14.30 14.30 14.30
14.30 14.30 14.30
14.30 14.30 14.30
14.18 14.18 14.18
14.18 14.18 14.18
13.95 13.95 13.95

Now look at my CBAZA after tuning this past weekend.

500-700-900-1100 RPM. Basically my idle and just off idle areas. Check out my spark table further down.

13.15 13.04 12.70 12.35
13.15 13.04 12.70 12.35
14.30 14.30 14.30 14.30
14.30 14.30 14.30 14.30
14.75 14.75 14.75 14.75
17.27 17.27 17.27 17.27
17.27 17.27 17.27 17.27
16.01 16.01 16.01 16.01


My 180-210 columns

13.61 12.70
14.30 14.30
14.30 14.30
14.30 14.30
14.53 14.53
16.01 16.01
16.01 16.01
16.01 16.01


My spark table. (Sea Level). You are looking at
600-700-900-1100 rpm

9.00 9.00 9.00 11.00
9.00 10.00 10.00 11.00
10.00 12.00 12.00 12.00
12.00 14.00 15.00 19.00
12.00 14.00 15.00 15.00
15.00 15.00 15.00 15.00
15.00 13.00 13.00 13.00
10.00 10.00 10.00 10.00
34.00 34.00 34.00 34.00

Note the 34's on the lowest load area. If I reduce that number and snap the throttle the car will settle down and die. That timing allows it to recover and keep running.

So what did I do to my CBAZA tune? I changed my LOAD=1 now, for the time being. What's missing here is input from other areas in the binary. ACT/ECT, etc... have an impact on these tables. You'll note the J4J1 tables are certainly more linear but my guess is further investigation will note some modifier is present in the U4P0 binary that isnt in the J4J1 in the area you mention.

Note the 10's in the above spark table. If I go up in that area the idle gets much rougher and starts to shake.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

Davin
Regular
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:53 pm

Post by Davin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:21 am

wow Patrick, that's a lot to digest..thanks. I had advanced the complete spark tables including the low rpm range, perhaps I'll return back to the stock settings. I have a +6 on my global adder scaler and roughly +5 accross each of the the entire spark tables. I wanted to do all of this w/o the global adder but don't really know how to beat the modifiers. I hate to loose the power the extra spark is giving but maybe I'll need to do that to figure out the idle problem and then work back up. It probably has nothing to do with it...what I really need is to figure out why the car dies and I guess I can't really do that without a wideband.
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

patrickmx2
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Posts: 593
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:56 pm
Location: Near Memphis TN.

Post by patrickmx2 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:44 am

you know, I looked back at your original post in this thread. Surging at idle and then dying.

Are you familiar with nulling out the modifiers?

I usually go back to the basics.
Get a base tune.
Fill in all your known values: displacement, injector, etc...
Turn adaptive control off.
Turn off EGR, Thermactor, etc... (if it is not present)

Now. Pull up a comparison file for the J4J1. I checked and "I think" all the modifiers are nulled. Meaning, they are set to 1 and shouldnt have any further impact. (someone correct me if that is wrong). Just look for FUEL functions and try to match your binary to the J4J1. You probably should use the fuel and spark tables too for the J4J1. Import the MAF curve. (load the J4J1, export, then load your saved binary and import, or just cut and paste).

See if it will start. If not just try leaning out the MAF curve below 2 volts. I say lean because surging is usually an indication of to rich.

Next will come idle and all that if it will at least start. Lets start there.


EDIT: Based on your original post, do you think it is entering closed loop then the surging starts or is it still in Open loop at that point?
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

Davin
Regular
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:53 pm

Post by Davin » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:16 pm

there is no doubt that the car is in OL when it stalls. If I make it to CL the LAMBSE goes up to around 14+ and everything is fine. It stalls after around 30 seconds the first time and the sooner with each subsequent attemt. Again, logging shows me that its definitly OL. I leaned the Open Loop Fuel Multiplier vs ACT function and made the hot startup LAMBSE around 12.1 instead of 11.1. This made it so that I could start and idle some of the time (instead of never)
Can you elaborate on turning adaptive control off? Also, when you reference modifiers, are you referring to the open loop fuel multipliers in the functions?

You said to use the J4J1 MAF transfer..are those based on 30# injectors?

The base fuel decay is also interesting, nearly double of my stock readings for the area of hot start...those values are subtracted from the base fuel LAMBSE right? Perhaps they are higher because the other multipliers are shut down...

I'll try those other things you mentioned...
94 GT (J4J1/CBAZA): 347 (CHP 9.3:1), AFR 185 Heads, RPM II Intake, Edl 70MMTB, ProM30# MAF, 30# Inj, AFM B-21 cam, MAC LTs, Fluidyne Rad, MSD dizzy, etc...

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