[Hot460]

Hi all,

Have a '93 Thunderbird SC body, just picked up a mid-70's 460.
I am gathering parts to retro-fit the engine with SEFI and EDIS-8 ignition.
I have a cam syncronizer off the 3.8l SC motor, an edis-8 box from a Crown Vic PI, a 36-1 crank ring to install on harmonic balancer.
I am looking to use an A9L 5spd ecu, a Mark viii or lightning 80-90mm MAF and 30-42lb injectors and twin bore throttle body (or 2):)
Definatly looking to use a QH to make this work.

More on the build: Aluminimn heads (probaly ford scj), rv-torque cam (low end power and torque and MPG). All hooked up to an LS-1 T56 6 speed. Not sure which gears I will use. I have (2) 8.8 Trac-Loc's (3.27 and 2.73 gear sets).
Haven't done any tuning, yet. So this will be an adventure.
MikeH

[decipha]

welcome mike, there's a few of us supercoupers here

im almost 100% positive that the cam synchronizer on the 3.8 isn't going to work on the 460, that's what i've heard but you'll have to double check if it does work i'll stain my undies

if a9l is your thing search cgrey8's post

[cgrey8]

I agree decipha, you'll probably need a cam sync from an Explorer 5.0L. Just like distributors, they have X number of normal pulses for every signature pulse. For a V6, you have 2 normal pulses for every signature pulse. For a V8, you need 3 normal pulses for every signature pulse.

[decipha]

that and the obvious length difference

[decipha]

wow a v6 cam sensor will work on a v8, this guy adapted it to his 351c

I got this PM on the supercoupe forum from the OP

are you the same decipha from eectuning.org?
Couldn't use this screen name over there. And now my computer has issues with the site after I log on. Can't hardly navigate the site.
So, on the v6 cam sync issue a dude over in europe used one on his 351 in his Pantera when he converted to EDIS-8. the dizzy shafts on the SC sync and the 460 are the same dia. and the oil pump drives are the same size. He and someone else have had adapters machined to fit into the larger hole and raise the sync up for proper engagement. Also the gear was swapped out for the correct engine fitment. You can see the whole thing here:
http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/
MikeH

[cgrey8]

While I don't doubt it can fit in the hole and be made to spin. I am missing how they have confirmed that it is "working". It seems every time the signature PIP came up, the EEC would readjust thinking it got the timing wrong. Add to that, it also seems like there wouldn't be enough pips coming from the device for the EEC to fire all the injectors.

I guess I just don't know enough about how this thing works and what kind of signal it is sending to the EEC to fully understand whether it will truly work or fake you out into believing it is working, but in reality the injector timing may be all over the place (akin to batch-fire).

[decipha]

x2

yeah true that's what i said

[Hot460]

I know that the SC v6 (pre'94) use a 3 vane trigger on the crank while the '94 and up use a 36-1 crank trigger/sensor setup. If I remember correctly from some reading that the SC uses both signals for EFI and the DIS used the "cam sync" signal. The crank vanes are for trigger, I think. And the Sync signal is ID. I have been reading so many articles and books on this stuff, it gets a little confusing.
I don't have any test gear at home and can't take it into work (Gov't don't like it).
MikeH

[decipha]

the gen1 89-93 thunderbird supercoupe utilizes an EXTERNAL TFI MODULE better know as the DIS module

if the camshaft position sensor fails the ecu will guess which of the 3 possible positions the cam is at, the engine will run without the cam sensor just might take a few startup attempts before she fires. I think the cam sensor controls injector timing.

The pip on the gen1 supercoupe comes from the crankshaft position sensor. Which I think controls spark just like on the distributor equipped ecu's

the gen2 supercoupe 94 & 95 uses EDIS -an animal of a different color

and check this out, the pinout on an 89-93 v6 3.8L supercoupe is the EXACT SAME as the 91-93 tbird 5.0 which also shares the same strategy which is also the same pin out as the 94-95 5.0 mustang and I believe the 94-95 f-series 5.0 & 5.8 equipped mass air trucks

pin 16 ign gnd
pin 36 spout
pin 56 pip

it's absolutely pitiful that i can recall those pins from memory I guess thats what happens when you own 6 of these cars

pin 24 on the supercoupe is for the cam sensor, which isn't used on the v8, i got a feeling if you flip the switch and wire she up she'll come alive

anyone with an edis swap on a cbaza ecu know for sure???

[Hot460]

Tipo874, I didn't find you here until just now.

wow a v6 cam sensor will work on a v8, this guy adapted it to his 351c

I got this PM on the supercoupe forum from the OP

are you the same decipha from eectuning.org?
Couldn't use this screen name over there. And now my computer has issues with the site after I log on. Can't hardly navigate the site.
So, on the v6 cam sync issue a dude over in europe used one on his 351 in his Pantera when he converted to EDIS-8. the dizzy shafts on the SC sync and the 460 are the same dia. and the oil pump drives are the same size. He and someone else have had adapters machined to fit into the larger hole and raise the sync up for proper engagement. Also the gear was swapped out for the correct engine fitment. You can see the whole thing here:
http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/
MikeH

MikeH (aka talonhead)

[Hot460]

Picked up an ECU 'S3S' for a V8 bird along with a complete engine wiring harness. Harness is now tacked up on a piece of plywood for inspection/verification and modification to fit the 460.
Was told this ECU may be suitable for this project.
MikeH

[decipha]

should get the job done, i believe thats a GSALI ecu, you'll probably need to contact Dave Dalke to get the def registered, sailorbob was working on one but im not sure if he released it just yet

had I known you were in need i have an x2p collecting dust, anyway, a cbaza ecu is a direct swap no pins need to be changed so if you ever get bored with it or decide to control an auto trans it wouldn't be nothing but a bolt away

[Hot460]

decipha,
Wouldn't know the difference. Just trying to plan the retro-fit of a 460 to EFI and EDIS.
Now I see that the registration process just got more confusing.
I haven't got un-confused since I started this ride!:)

But I have to take a break from this project and my T56 swap as my Truk gave a loud POP and started emitting a nasty noise and exhaust pulsefron the top of the head/intake near the rear pass. side injector/coil area (6.8l v10 mod motor) got home and found the coil mounting lug broke and coil ratteling around in its socket not connected to the plug boot.
When it rains, it as hell pours! :(

MikeH

[decipha]

no worries i take care of my own, you got nothing to worry about

and the confusion usually subsides within a year or so

[Hot460]

Got the aluminum stock to make the crank trigger wheel mount and the cam sync adapter. Have to get with the machinist that has been making parts for my T56 conversion and make sure we're on the same page about what is needed.
Working on a performer intake for injector boss and fuel rail configuration.
Still need to get a TB and work up an intake adapter. It's slow but have a few other projects on line with a higher priority.
Directly connected with this project, but not a 'high' priority----get another body. Had to s**t-can the one in the original post. It died from cancer. But it has been an organ donor. Engine (to wifes car), cluster (modded-converted to 140mph and made the oil pres. meter a REAL meter-not an idiot meter), Black interior (for next project car--I do love the triple black). An auto 3rd member--in case the 2.73's are too tall for the T56. The cam sync for the 460, another set of rims in fair condition, front axles--in case the next body is an '89-'92 I can still do the 13" brake set-up.
So, while I am on the look-out for an '89-'93 TBird roller to stuff this monster in I have plenty to do. As I finish up some of my projects, and get ready to commit the time to this, I will undoubtedly be a PITA to some of the folks here;-)
MikeH

[decipha]

when you get her ready to fire shoot me a PM