[gunn]

Hi:
I'm just getting started with QH and managed to get a good deal on a QH module. I've also already ordered the USB dongle ECU because i have two PCs I plan to use with BE/EA (a traditional laptop + a 8" Dell Venue Pro Win 8.1 tablet I plan to use onboard).

My target setup:
- Vehicle is a 1993 Ford Thunderbird 5.0 (stock ECU is a W3D). Manual transmission, electric fan separately wired up
- Modified (basically cut some wires) harness to use a 94-95 Mustang W4H0 I already acquired (CBAZA strategy)
- Modified the 93 tbird wiring harness to input from my LC-1 WB02 on Pin 27 (EGR input)

1) In Decipha's Dos and Don'ts section, he mentions four items i'm not so sure about.
http://info.efidynotuning.com/dodont.htm
- Never plug or unplug anything from the ECU's J3 port while the ignition is on!! (this will fry the ecu and/or device)
- Never plug in the QH's USB cable to your laptop with the key off
- Never write a tune with the key off
- Never turn the key off while the QH's USB cable is plugged in

* Now, I understand the first one as an EE because you don't want any transient conditions where random pins are grounded, brought to VCC abuptly. I'm fine with that.
* My question is why can I not plug in the QH and reflash it while the ECU+QH module is sitting on my office desk (vs in my garage plugged into my car. This would be both physically convenient for me as well as potentially safer because my secondhand QH is currently flashed with a tune for a LA3 ECU and not the W4H0 ECU I'm targeting.
- The only plausible reason I can imagine is because the QH module gets its power from the J3 Port to the ECU and not from the USB line. Is this true?

2) While some folks have told me that my actual tuning requirements won't require anything beyond the free CBAZA strategy (GT40 heads, GT40 intake, 20 over bore, no trans control, no fan control, stock 19# injectors, e303 cam, stock tbird MAF (equiv to a fox body).

I'm leaning towards just paying $25 for a CBAZA.CRY strategy from Sailorbob. In comparison, it looks like there are a good deal more variables that I can play with. I understand that a CRY file is licensed to a specific QH setup. Since I'm using a USB dongle, does this mean the CRY file I pay for will work with BOTH my laptop and my tablet or will I need to pay $25 twice? That would suck.

3) Finally, I plan to use Decipha's T4M2 instructions as a base setup with the CBAZA.CRY strategy. I've also bought and read Don Lasota's book on QH tuning so I have a basic idea of what I should be doing (hopefully).
http://info.efidynotuning.com/t4m2.htm
It seems pretty straightforward to change the various scalars and to import the necessary MAF tuning function. My problem is that my car (a track car) is no longer street legal so it's not very easy for me to get the dialed in.
Q: If I take all the appropriate steps as per the instructions, how close will this "base" setup get me to a "running tune".
- Should I expect the setup to idle without knocking?
- What about running at WOT and at steady straight?
- Should I expect to tweak things for bogging down at "tip in" or some minor adjustment like that?

Please keep in mind that I actually don't mine leaving power on the table as the car is an endurance racer vs. a drag toy.
I know that my stock ECU (W3D) can still run my engine without any fuss so my improvements to the exhaust (no cats, freer flowing intake/heads). By without fuss I mean that the WBO2 setup is telling me that my AFR is never higher than 12 (haven't switch to lambda for the WBO2 gauge but I will) ; I only invested in the QH setup to learn a little more about the car and to get more visibility in datalogging.

Thanks in advance to any feedback you folks can provide. I'm looking forward to it.
Regards,
-g

[decipha]

the usb with the key off can cause the QH to not sync with the selected tune position so when you go to fire it up you have a corrupt tune, some people just write to all tune slots which is just stupid

no big deal if the qh isnt in the ecu

your stock setup should run fine with minor tuning, honestly you should have stuck with the stock tbird ecu, sailorbob has that complete definition file too

be sure you copy the stock tbird maf curve to your new cbaza tune

it shouldnt require much adjustments at all, the t4m2 should actually run the car fairly decent without making any changes, albeit not ideal

do as the write up and you should be good

[gunn]

the usb with the key off can cause the QH to not sync with the selected tune position so when you go to fire it up you have a corrupt tune, some people just write to all tune slots which is just stupid

no big deal if the qh isnt in the ecu

your stock setup should run fine with minor tuning, honestly you should have stuck with the stock tbird ecu, sailorbob has that complete definition file too

be sure you copy the stock tbird maf curve to your new cbaza tune

it shouldnt require much adjustments at all, the t4m2 should actually run the car fairly decent without making any changes, albeit not ideal

do as the write up and you should be good

1) I don't mind burning all the tune slots to the same program as I don't plan on having a street/dragstrip/race setup -- the car does one thing.

2) I would have stuck to the stock W3D ECU (and could still do so as the W4H0 ECU I bought was only $30 bucks and none of the harness mods I did would have affected the W3D). The catch was that when I pinged sailorbob about the tune, he couldn't confirm for me any details about the GSALI strategy nor could he confirm that it would work for the W3D ECU. Furthermore, I checked the .cry file he gave me and it seems pretty limited in terms of mapping vs. the CBAZA strategy.
- One of the first changes I plan to make is on the MAF transfer function
- I'm a little more worried about getting the injectors setup right but its encouraging to hear that you think that the T4M2 setup should run decently out of the box.

Q: Since you know quite a bit about tuning yourself, do you know if the machine code is machine specific or dongle specific?
I'm sure I'll figure that out when I run the BE/EA code and see if the code will be different between the laptop and the tablet.

Regards,
-g

[gunn]

FYI.
To answer my my question about CRY licensing, it appears that when you use the same BE/EA dongle in two different machines, you will still get two separate "machine codes".

Therefore, any .lic files for an encrypted strategies (.cry files) must be generated seperately.
That kind of sucks.
-g

[decipha]

that blowez the meat whistle, im is thought the license was to the dongle not the machine

Is this something that clint has been made aware of? Im sure he can fix it

[gunn]

that blowez the meat whistle, im is thought the license was to the dongle not the machine

Is this something that clint has been made aware of? Im sure he can fix it

Would you mind bringing this up with Clint? I don't know him and as you are one of the veteran partners in his ecosystem, I think your opinion may hold more sway than coming from me.

FYI: I've learned a little more about how licensing works and found out that "database" licensing (aka getting someone's big pack of strategies" aka something that I would see a tuner or value added reseller if you look at other businesses would use) requires a dongle. I suppose this means that that any strategy database licensing is ALSO tied to a specific dongle AND PC. This may be how Clint envisions things working (his software, his rules) BUT I can't be the first end user (vs a shop) to have multiple computers they'd want to use with tuning a single car.


---
Right now I'm exchanging emails with Sailorbob aka Derek as he could solve this situation -- one user (me), two PCs, and one dongle) by issuing me two .lic files (just want to confirm if that's going to cost me $25, $50, or something in between).

For folks who think I was poo-pooing Sailorbob's GSALI strategy: I did want to clear up that Derek's GSALI strategy does seem to be pretty encompassing with over 1K scalars, 135 functions, and 35 tables. CBAZA is more encompassing but it includes a bunch of stuff for transmission control (which I don't care about anyway). My concerns about it's suitability were from the following PLUS my relative ignorance of how this software works.
1) Sailorbob couldn't confirm for me that the W3D catchcode uses the GSALI strategy. His list of available strategies does list GSALI for a 1993 Ford Thunderbird 5.0 though.
2) Don Lasota (a mail order tuner I've used before and who's opinion I trust) has the opinion that the W3D is too oddball an ECU to be well supported.
3) Even if the GSALI strategy has been pretty well opened up for the 3.8SC folks (Supercoupes), the W3D used in the 5.0 tbird is NOT a popular ECU.
4) Other folks have complained that the GSALI strategies offered by other folks )Frasier Turner -- some guy I don't think is doing this work anymore) do NOT defeat EGR properly.
While I cannot claim this reflects on the product Sailorbob puts out (it's a different guy after all), I do believe it reflects the overall popularity of this strategy.
- Without first paying Sailorbob, I have no way of confirming that EGR is properly defeated. Looking at Sailorbob's readonly GSALI strategy, I found 11 different variables called "EGR Present" (PID EGRHP). In comparison, only ONE variable is labeled as "EGR Present" (PFEHP) in Sailorbob's CBAZA strategy.
viewtopic.php?p=81172

Bottom Line:
- I WILL pay Derek money for a strategy. I just wanted his advice as to which one and to understand the cost for my situation.
- I have the stuff now (ECU, BE/EA, wiring setup) for one of two options. Considering my tuning requirements outlined in my initial post (which aren't very significant), which path would you guys go down?

OPTION 1:
- License the GSALI strategy from Sailorbob and use my W3D ECU. Since my stock ECU will already be properly mapped to my stock MAF and stock 19# injectors, this means I should have a fully working baseline (no worse than the base vehicle without QH)
OPTION 2:
- License the CBAZA strategy from Sailorbob and use the W4H0 ECU. In theory, the injectors should be the similar enough (both are 19#) and the MAF transfer function can be copied from a 91 Foxbody's MAF from Decipha's website (91 foxbody = same MAF as a 91-93 Tbird).

If you folks think that I should have no problems disabling EGR (mainly so I can use pin 27 as an input for datalogging from my WBO2), I'd personally lean towards Option 1.

Any feedback you guys may have would be greatly appreciated here.
Regards,
-g

[gunn]

UPDATE:
1) Derek aka Sailorbob was absolutely correct - a single licensed tune is tied to the dongle serial # and not the PC-specific machine code (even though both are in the strategyrequest.txt file you send over). I'm glad to see the author of BE was forward thinking enough to take this into account in his protection scheme.

2) Since it's only $25/ea (vs. $25 per strategy per PC), I ended up licensing BOTH GSALI and CBAZA from Sailorbob.

My plan is to run the W4H0 mustang ECU (CBAZA strategy), use Decipha's T4M2.bin as a starting point for the configuration, and then populate it with the STOCK FORD MAF/injector information extracted from my W3D ECU (using Decipha's GSALI strategy to point out where in memory these functions reside).

The net result will be:
- a tune that is based on a Mustang ECU and the super popular CBAZA strategy in case I need further tweaking help (esp considering this car is no longer street legal so my ability to tune under load is a bit compromised)
- a baseline tune that runs this car no worse than my stock W3D ECU did despite my engine mods (GT40 heads, e303 cam, free flowing catless exchaust).

I apologize again for being a neophyte here but can you folks educate me as to what tables I should extract from the Ford W3D ECU?
As stated before, the plan is to run a Mustang ECU but with the tbird's stock injectors + MAF.
- The MAF Transfer Function is obvious. I'm still using the tbird MAF so extracting what the W3D ecu uses would likely be a more ideal starting point than copying the Foxbody MAF transfer function as a starting point and hoping for the best (allegedly they are the same).

I'm a little fuzzy on what I should copy over when it comes to the injector tables though.
- If I do nothing in regards to the injectors, I suspect that things should be very close between the settings specified by Decipha in T4M2 for a 94/95 mustang and what the stock W3D ECU used with the 91-93 Tbirds as both are 19# injectors.
- I know there should be a difference in ACT sensor placement between the two ECUs (on the Tbird/W3D ECU it's on the lower intake manifold whereas on the Mustang/W4H0 its on the airbox) so I plan to relocate the ACT sensor and then keep the recommended T4M2.bin table.
Q: Should I copy every function+table listed under "Fuel" except the "Fuel Multiplier vs ACT" function?

Thanks in advance for everyone's replies/comments. I find this to be a fascinating new project for me.
-g

[decipha]

there is nothing in the w3d tune that you should copy over other than the MAF transfer, which is here

http://info.efidynotuning.com/maf.htm

follow the instructions with the T4M2 and you'll be done

http://info.efidynotuning.com/t4m2.htm