Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

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TrueMetalGeek
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Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:42 pm

Hey guys long time no talk.
I haven't been doing a lot with the Mustang lately as we are just getting out of the 100+ degree days here in the Phoenix, AZ area but I thought I'd mention some things and some issues just to see what other people think about it.

Overall the car has ran pretty good for being a "low buck" project where I only buy something aftermarket if I really need it and do as much DIY as I can.

As a refresher it's a single turbo setup with no intercooler. The turbo is mounted in front of the engine on the right side with a single 3" downpipe that splits into the stock duals. That downpipe has been crushed a little from hitting speed pumps and things like that unfortunately but I don't think it is messed up enough to really effect it a lot.

I had switched my tune to Decipha's ZXA5 for a while and some things I did notice this summer was that for one the coolant temp likes to hit 220 degrees with just one or two throttle jabs when it is 110+ degrees outside!
The car did this weird thing of shutting down the engine and then would only run a few seconds at a time each time I restarted it or turned the key off and right back on when I was coasting to get it to run again.
It took me a while to figure out that it was not random but when the coolant temp got over 220 degrees. (This car has ALWAYS ran that temp in the dead of summer when the A/C is on).
I then remembered reading something about there being a safety to shut off the engine when the ECT is high in Decipha's tune if I am not mistaken. LOL If not then something is doing it based on tune and ECT's.
So here in the summertime it is too easy to hit that temp. I am running stock radiator but it is only a year old.

Now I've been noticing something new and that is that the car no longer seems to have the peak power it used to have when it gets good boost.
It feels like it loads up with fuel but I am pretty sure that it is not running any more rich than it ever did and I've played with the tune a bit to see if it changed anything.
I am thinking that the stock coil packs might be worn to the point that I am just not getting good spark at those cylinder pressures.
The plugs and wires are not very old but they are stock other than the one step colder plugs and I got the full tips as recommended for forced induction.
They are already gapped small too.

I'm leaning towards buying these suckers here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-3 ... el/mustang
But since I just had to pay for tags on our minivan AND our Ford SUV back to back I will have to wait for even that $100 purchase I suppose.

Oh, lol, the other thing that happened this summer is the intake air temp has PEGGED at 254 degrees. I'd think it would be 255 but the check engine light came on and it said it hit 254 or something like that. I remember logging in the earlier part of summer when it was over 100 outside it would hit 230+ degrees easy so I suppose when the outside air is 110 to 114 degrees then it's going to hit close to 250 in the charge pipe. :-/

Someday I need to look at something like water/methanol injection. Something from Snow performance or similar. I did a home made one on a previous non ford turbo project and it was only so-so.

So lately I did go back to an older ZXA4 tune so I wont have that safety feature shutting my car off at high ect temps and also so I can retain the factory anti-thft feature which does work when using the stock type tune.
The thing is, the ignition switch screwed up shortly after getting the car and my lock smith friend gave me a new cylinder but he didn't have something he needed to match it to my existing key. So honestly the cylinder has had no pins in it so technically you can turn it with no key.
But since it has the anti theft it still needed the stock key to be in there unless I ran Decipha's ZXA5. I actually didn't know he had that turned off until I was talking to him about what seemed to be the anti theft kicking in as I was driving earlier in the summer. As I said above, I now know what was going on. And once I baby it long enough to get the ECT down a bit then it would no longer shut down.

I guess I am rambling but my main input I was seeking is maybe what people thought about a possibly weak ignition coil when running boost.
I'm thinking mine is weak and is just losing ignition under high loads.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

decipha
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by decipha » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:59 am

I would suspect the high ACTs are yanking a crap ton of timing making it run like a turd.

I have the ACT retard overly safe in the zxa5 tune if you hadnt adjusted it thats most likely the culprit

In all my tunes I always shut off the engine when ECTs exceed 242 degrees, I wouldnt recommend running
an engine much past that, usually around 260 degrees things start moving. I always put 12 seconds of restart time so you can move out the road and to safety. Sounds like you hit it.

You can copy your PATS code over from your stock tune to the zxa5 tune.

I have a blank 2 bank def file for tunerpro on my website with the PATS code table in it just for doing just that.

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TrueMetalGeek
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:17 pm

I threw in the old ZXA4 tune in that was only modified for the 30 Lb Injectors and then threw in the modified MAF curve for the PRO-M MAF and noticed it there too.

It might not even be like all cylinders misfiring as it still hits redline, but probably one bank that is going bad.

I haven't been driving it too much but from being in cars a long time I just get that feeling that it is loosing spark under load at least in a few cylinders.


Months back I had your ZXA5 and I had yanked even more timing and still had more top end I think.
I remember some days I drive the car and kind of scared myself with it being so fast.

Then those 110 degree days came and it would shoot to 220+ and do the shut down thing and then set the light for the high ACT lol.

" I always put 12 seconds of restart time so you can move out the road and to safety. Sounds like you hit it."
LOL, yeah 12 seconds run time seems about right!
Once I learned what it was doing I would just try to maintain a stead speed and then move the ignition to off and on with it still coasting to keep me moving until I got home or until it cooled enough to stop doing that.

The car didn't seem to keep climbing like it has a cooling problem. I guess those cars run about 220 or so in the summer with that dinky radiator and a few blasts in the boost sure do shoot it up.

I dropped a colder t-stat in it, which I realize is usually futile. but on days when it is not so hot it does stay cooler than it did with the old one.
I think the old one did go bad and since I replaced it, the temp does drop quicker when I get out of the hard throttle and just cruise.

Overall, the car idles fine and still drives ok.

When I get a chance I will take a look at those files again.

Oh, does your ZXA5 tune have any chance to pass emissions?
I do believe my check engine light stayed off until the AIC pegged. But the light being off don't necessarily mean it is "ready" to pass either I suppose.

I got a code scanner that says how many are "Ready" for emissions so I could check it every now and then.

I did get 2 years of tags last fall so I got over a year to get it back to emission friendly. Which should be just putting a cat on it.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

decipha
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by decipha » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:27 pm

i have most of the background emissions masks disabled if they plug in they wont get a code but wont be able to do tests, depends on how in depth they check, if just pulling codes your good

for emissions testing you should lock the timing out at 10 degrees, just set the global spark multiplier to 0 and the global spark modifier to 10

i dicuss that in the ignition timing write up

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TrueMetalGeek
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:01 pm

I don't think I'll have emissions issues.
The way I did my exhaust was simply reverse the manifolds and the primary O2's are near the flange as it would be stock and the rear two are in the cross over just as before. the only thing missing still is the cat. I wanted to perhaps get a tubular crossmember to redo the downpipe through that before I bought and installed a cat.

So I think as long as it is allowed to monitor I should pass.
Which worse case I guess just dropping in an older ZXA4 tune and driving a few days would accomplish that.
The car passed emissions just before I installed the turbo.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

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TrueMetalGeek
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:42 pm

Today I drove the car just a mile up the road and back (I had the young kids alone) and didn't plug in the tablet to datalog.
But it is definitely falling on it's face around 4500 RPM's. I already swapped the coil packs and widened the plugs from .030 to .040.
Visually looking at the wideband it is going to 11 AFR pretty quick. So maybe I'm too rich and that is why it is stumbling a bit.
It idles and cruises perfectly fine though.

I do have the MAF transfer that Pro-M gave me multiplied by 30 or 40% because that is always what I had to do since I got the thing so it would idle else it was too lean.

One thing I have not done is pull that "air straightener" out of the air duct before the Pro-M.
I used a junk yard air straightener with the old modified stock type MAF and just left it in the coupler when I installed the Pro-M.

Who knows. Maybe that is why I have to modify my MAF transfer to fatten it up down low.

Here is a video of me driving it up the street and back.
It used to scream right to the rev limiter, which I previously had way high at 7k or so.
I think it is set at 6200 or so but it drops power at 4500 or so now like hitting a brick wall.

I'm not really worried much as I should figure it out. I'm mostly just chit chatting and now that it is cooling off I hope to start playing with the car again. Which is why I bought the thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=98&v=lUwrc3K-Liw
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

decipha
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by decipha » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:26 pm

you are aware 30 lb injectors will only support just over 300rwhp correct ?

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TrueMetalGeek
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:48 pm

When I looked it up in the beginning it showed just over 400 HP for 30 Lbs. 19 is what the car came with.
So far I have not seemed to go lean when under full load.

As for the MAF transfer as I said it was lean on IDLE and maybe just off idle. But when the curve is multiplied to where it idles and cruises nice I appear to be rich under higher loads.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

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TrueMetalGeek
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:20 pm

I found a rubber adapter on the turbo discharge that was fried. It was inside the silicone part that was still good so I could not see it. I bet that was doing some goofy things.
I fixed it then it seemed to have a lot of power again and then within minutes I blew the heater core hose. Dang thing. HA HA
Fixed that then was out driving it again and now I need to go back and fix the transfer function again because it is acting funky.

BTW, does the ACT intake temperature have any effect on the calculation of actual air delivery or is it just all based on the MAF output?
I drove it a little today and it was just in the low 90's here (which is considered cool) and the IAT in the log shows it shooting right up to 254 degrees (pegged) each time I got into the throttle.

Before the heat of the summer it went over 200 but not pegged until it got to those 110 degree days.
I better use my bead thermometer to see if it is really still hitting that temp. That is crazy.

It is kind of a bummer than the supplied transfer function from the Pro-M never did work without me messing with it. And they state that they flow bench each one of those to create that sheet for each manufactured MAF. :-/
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

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TrueMetalGeek
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:05 pm

Today for shits n giggles I thought I'd open that Pro-M transfer into Excel and just experiment with blending the multipliers of their values to see what happened and it worked.
I've had to multiple their transfer curve by 1.4 to get to idle and cruise where it should be but since I fixed that air leak it was lean up high instead of rich.
So I multiplied the lower few cells by 1.4 then blended it over a few cells until it was multiplied by 2.0 the rest of the way (the upper scale I never see since it is a 800HP maf sensor) and aside from one little dip in the AFR just off throttle the dang thing was mostly corrected.
I did a quick log and on the throttle it tracked with a few decimal places between the LAMSE and the WIDEBAND and with higher RPM it finally was lean just by .5 with the LAMSE at like 11.4 or so and the wideband at 11.9 to 12 sometimes but mostly stayed 11.8 to 11.9 at the upper load and RPM.
I didn't hear any detonation at all.

The other day it made good power but fell into the 13 and 14 AFR a few times and sounded like I was throwing pennies down into the engine. Oops!

An interesting thing I noticed by chance in the datalog is that with the little bit of extra torque and a quick shift into 2nd the clutch seems to have slipped a little as the RPM's shot up a little non linearly as opposed from the MPH in the log. I looked at previous logs and that did not happen. I guess I better not ride the clutch at all. It is stock but pretty new.

Anyway I could probably let the fuel trims correct the light part throttle dips or I can log and dial it in manually now.

Oh, dunno if I mentioned before, but when I removed that air straightener from just before my MAF the car did not want to run.
The turbo is close to the MAF (about 12" away) just after it comes out of a slight bend. It has about 4" of straight pipe or so but not enough evidently without that air straightener.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

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TrueMetalGeek
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by TrueMetalGeek » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Another update to the LOW BUCK DIY turbo project.

I discovered that I could buy an intercooler cheap on eBay so I got one. If I knew they were as low as $100 I would have got one in the first place. :-/
Image


Nothing special but I was able to shoehorn in a 3" intercooler with little modifications to the front clip.
I got the front clip back on and it is still pretty stealth.
I bought some new one piece headlights off of eBay while I was at it since the old ones were falling apart.

Image


This is where I placed the turbo here when I first installed it with no intercooler so I had a little fun cutting the car in a few places to get the piping to and from the intercooler but it came out ok.

Image


So after I played with my MAF CURVE a little I got the car running great.

Now the strange thing I noticed after I logged was that I had forgotten that I was using one of my older tunes. I had switched to an older one when I was trying to figure out a MAF reading error in the summer. This older tune is not scaled or modified to more precisely control my spark advance at high boost. The spark table still just references the original scaling function so once it pulls timing above 75 load or so it just stays there but I am not getting any sounds of detonation. At least with the current weather of about 65 to 70 outside and the air charge now barely getting to 92 degrees or so whereas I as hitting 200+ before with no intercooler when it was in the 80's outside.

One issue I am watching is that my AFR is dropping to 12.5-ish (at worst) which is not good but I guess not insane I suppose. I probably do need larger injectors to maintain about a 11.5 AFR under high load.
I also notice the LOAD is going to 199 in the datalog.
That might be in error a tad as I have modified my MAF transfer by multiplying the curve by a higher value as it gets into the higher loads. Therefore causing an inaccurate measurement I am sure. So I will probably need to pull that back to get a more realistic numbers and a realistic calculation of load in that range.

Otherwise The car is running great. It actually has too much power for the 245/45 17's on it where even 2nd gear just breaks loose every single time it spools from a roll.
So I think besides modifying for spark control under boost I will likely just change the spring in my waste gate to reduce the boost a bit.

I really don't feel like scaling a bunch of things as I saw in the Scaling 101 write up. Other than looking at what is going on in a datalog there is nothing wrong with how it is performing. It idles good. It cruises good. It transitions good and it hauls ass.
1996 Mustang GT 5 Speed project car - Stock 4.6 Non PI with 200k miles on it.
Tuning with QH - BE - Innovate MTX-L WB
Single Turbo - Pro-M 3" Blow-through Tube
DIY low-buck project with mostly garage fabrication

decipha
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Posts: 7685
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by decipha » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:47 pm

cool sounds like your making progress

its pretty simple to double sarchg and rescale the spark table and cut fn035 in half, that shouldkeep her under 200 load so you van dial in pct_load correctly

acanais82
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Re: Current progression with my low buck turbo '96 Mustang

Post by acanais82 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:57 pm

decipha wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:59 am
I would suspect the high ACTs are yanking a crap ton of timing making it run like a turd.

I have the ACT retard overly safe in the zxa5 tune if you hadnt adjusted it thats most likely the culprit

In all my tunes I always shut off the engine when ECTs exceed 242 degrees, I wouldnt recommend running
an engine much past that, usually around 260 degrees things start moving assurances obsèques. I always put 12 seconds of restart time so you can move out the road and to safety. Sounds like you hit it.

You can copy your PATS code over from your stock tune to the zxa5 tune.

I have a blank 2 bank def file for tunerpro on my website with the PATS code table in it just for doing just that.
Always take a little precaution if you really want to drive on the road.

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