[killatime]

i've been playing with my tune on my own, and just curious if anyone has, a tranfer/flow chart for the C&L 30lb maf.

thanks

[EDS50]

i've been playing with my tune on my own, and just curious if anyone has, a tranfer/flow chart for the C&L 30lb maf.

thanks

What electronics are you using and what color sample tube are you using?

[killatime]

A9L with BE and EA C&L red tube

[EDS50]

A9L with BE and EA C&L red tube

Which maf electronics are you using? Stock 55mm sensor like you would find in a fox body or something else? There is a part number on top of the maf electronics if you can share that with us so we can better determine what you have because all this information is crucial to a proper maf xfer starting point.

[EDS50]

Also how is your air inlet track configured? Cone air filter on the end of the meter, cold air intake, stock airbox?

[killatime]

cold air kit out the fender with a cone filter fow body set up and i'll get the number off the mass, it's a C&L meter as well, fox body, but tonight when i get home i'll gab the rest of the info

thanks

[EDS50]

cold air kit out the fender with a cone filter fow body set up and i'll get the number off the mass, it's a C&L meter as well, fox body, but tonight when i get home i'll gab the rest of the info

thanks

Sounds good.

[killatime]

shoot i should of been on here over a year ago when i got my quarterhorse, you all have been helpful, thanks i'll throw up the rest of the info on the mass later tonight

[EDS50]

shoot i should of been on here over a year ago when i got my quarterhorse, you all have been helpful, thanks i'll throw up the rest of the info on the mass later tonight

Thats what we are here for and why we are a tight knit professional community.

[NotchAbove]

#1 - This place is really the best for getting help, everyone is super friendly and knows what they are talking about.

#2 - I'm going to post up what I have for a 73mm with the Red Tube and Stock Electronics and cold air, this is directly from Lee Bender the owner of C&L.

What I would like to say, and I don't mean to be negative, but I had this same meter as you, same setup, everything, and had a lot of problems getting it to run good, so much so that I went to a LMAF.

[killatime]

i'll keep that in mind, the lmaf, this mass i have a friend of mine just bought a good running stang and he doesn't like fuel injection so he went carb, and gave it to me, my car was running great on it, but since the battery in my ride went dead, i'm trying to get it up and running, for some reason, when my battery went dead, it took out the A9L and quarterhorse, so i bought another A9L plus i fixed my old one, and put a new battery in the quarterhorse, and working on a better tune, after reading whatever one else has been doing, but i've always had just alittle bit of a rolling idle randomly and random stall since i put the trick flow track heat on it. still trying to get that worked out, you all are very helpful

[markedforlife]

I would go back and retorque all the lower intake bolts, everytime i installed new lower gaskets
within 5 heat cycles they were loose. This can cause a vacuum leak and idle issues.

[killatime]

markedforlife nice build man, are you on ford vs chevy .com? yeah and i've been thinking the intake needs resealed, last time my battery when dead i had an intake leak, wtf? ahh probably there but doesn't show up till later lol, okay the electronics of the maf is a pro flow model 77m serial 03a205, calibration 30 with a big space and 5100 and theres a phone number on it but one number is missing and looks to be a C&L housing with the red tube

[markedforlife]

I spent more time on lincolnsonline and mostly just perused on ford vs chevy, now that i can tune
myself most of my time is spent here trying to keep my stuff from blowing up. What RPM are you trying
to get your car to idle at? There are a lot of things to adjust when working on the idle, the two main
things to look at for idle are IPSIBR and ISCKAM2 and the goal is to get them to zero at closed
throttle idle and a iscduty cycle of 35 to 40%, also if you try to get the car to idle to low it will
cause a unstable idle. Tune for the highest stable idle vacuum possible. I datalog vacuum/ boost
so it helps alot. What are the KAMRF doing at idle? Above 1.00 or below 1.00. As a sidenote
felpro has a 1250S (S) for composite steel core intake gasket, also use only the gray antifreeze
resistant silicone around the water ports.

[killatime]

i spend most of my time working..lol.. but in my spare time tuning and play with my mark, this is the 7th seven i've owned, i would like to get it to idle around 900-1000, right now best idle is 1100-1200, anything lower then that she stalls, another issuse i have is i keep changing things on it, so i'm always playing with the tune, but the build she has now i'm pretty happy with, so need to fine tune everything, but i'm still thinking of swapping cams out i have the x303 in her now, and thinking of tossing in a trick flow stage 2, she wieghs in at 4285, and on the cast iron heads, depending on driver(me) lol ran 12.8 fastest time, since i went to the trick flow twisted wedge heads, i can't get her to hook right, nittro drag radials are on her right now with 17x9 bullet mustang wheel, thinking about going to 17x10.5 with MT drag radials, on the street she hooks good on the track she doesn't, plus the rims spin slightly in the tires at the track, one launch twisted the slp yoke out the back of the t5z, and it was one of the ford racing ones from jegs, she makes power just trying to caress her to her full ablity, so all the advise everyone here toses my way i keep, my mind is like a sponge when it comes to cars, just takes in all the knowledge and stores it, for later use, i'm hoping to get her down to my shop this weekend and start with basics, compression check, fuel pressure, timing, tps voltage, look for vac leaks, ect..ect.. and i'll check out everything that has been suggested, and see we shes at thanks, and any other suggestions are appreciated

[markedforlife]

The x cam has -1 degree of duration (no duration) and with fuel injection this is a good thing
for tuning. The stage 2 will drop compression which will hurt low end torque and with
are heavy cars its not a good tradeoff in my opinion

[killatime]

what do you mean by -1 degree(no duration)?

[cgrey8]

I suspect he probably meant it has a -1 overlap, not duration. If that's what he meant, I would call that a no-overlap cam@.050". That doesn't mean there is no overlap at all. Any cam for street engines will have some amount of overlap at absolute (.006" lift).

You can view the overlap value in EEC Analyzer. Flip between .050" and .006" to get the value. For heavy overlap cams, you'll see a positive value for .050" overlap. This is the number of degrees that both the intake and exhaust lobe have lift at or above .050" at the same time. Hot street and strip applications do well with overlap cams but can (not will) suffer driveability issues and generally won't have nearly the torque down low that milder cams will. Heavy overlap cams also put a much greater differential between static compression ratio (SCR) and dynamic compression ratio (DCR) so when running aggressive heavy overlap cams, you generally want a much higher compression ratio...say in the 11:1 range.

If the value is 0@.050", this means there's only a single instance where both the intake and exhaust valves are at .050" lift at the same time, but they are at this condition for theoretically no degrees. It's a single position on the cam that this occurs. In reality engineering tolerances probably have it either a little on one side of 0 or the other. But practically speaking, this is still considered a no-overlap cam. An example of a cam like this is the FMS E303 cam. True "zero" overlap cams are generally the most aggressive you want to go on street-only engines without having the same issues the heavy overlap cams will have. And people needing to pass emissions should limit their cams to no more aggressive than an absolute "zero" overlap cam. Even the E303 and similar street cams pose some of the annoyances of bigger cams on some engines such as the inability to run closed loop idle and run sub 700RPMs at idle.

If the value for .050" overlap is negative, that means there's never a position on the cam where both intake and exhaust lobes are lifted greater than .050" at the same time. The negative value is an indicator as to how many LSA degrees you could narrow the lobes before you would hit 0. But since this was confusing, I think the newer versions of EEC Analyzer don't display .050" overlap as negative anymore. The value is clipped at 0. Generally speaking street and truck applications run better with mild "negative" overlap cams. Milder cams will fill the cylinders much more at lower RPMs giving them more low-end torque. This also reduces the differential between SCR and DCR. So you won't get away with much over 10:1 SCR, if that, while running a low RPM, high torque cam. And these cams don't generally have any of the driveability issues of the "zero" overlap and overlap cams.

[markedforlife]

overlap is what i meant, thanks for correcting me.

[killatime]

wow, good info from all of you thank you for enlightening me on that, sounds like i'll keep that cam in there

[cgrey8]

I added some additional thoughts to the cam comments above. The info is general info, not absolute. There are plenty of people running overlap cams and passing California's tailpipe tests (although the tester doesn't know about the non-CARB approved cam). It's also worth saying that larger displacement engines like 347 & 351w seem to tolerate more aggressive cams better than 289 or 302s will. Although even 351ws with a TFS Stage 2 cam don't generally idle steady below ~800 RPMs. If you want a steady 600-650RPM idle, you will need a mild "negative" overlap cam.

[markedforlife]

Killatime what adjustments have you made to your idle parameters and your tune
in general, things like slopes, breakpoint and battery offset? If your interested i
could give you a small list of things that need changed when the idle base is changed.
1100 rpm is way high for that cam you have, it should idle at 750 rpm.

[killatime]

750? this car on the stock motor never idled that low, but it was speed den auto computer with a stick conversion at that time, the best i can ever get this car to idle at is 900, but even then just randon stalling and random rolling idle, like for instance one day the car idles perfect at 900 and then the next stall almost ever stop and then clear up and be fine, don't have my notes with me, on all my adjustments i've made, been busy in the shop, but yeah markedforlife, i'm enterested, especially to see what i'm over looking, thanks

[markedforlife]

Some preliminary things will have to be adressed first as you posted earlier, and setting the
throttle body, timing and retorqueing that intake down and pulling the codes to see if you
have any problems there are good starting point. Do you burn e10 or straight gasoline
which will be important to know? Look at a log and tell me if the iscflag column has a one
in it which means it went into idle rpm control, does the OL column have a (0) zero in the log?
Zero means closed loop and a one in the OL column means Open loop. As far as your mass air
transfer i would just use the EA transfer for now, look at the sensor itself that goes into the
meter whether its a 55 or 70mm sensor.