looking to get a QH

Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

Moderators: cgrey8, EDS50, 2Shaker, Jon 94GT

Post Reply
kendawg73
Gear Head
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 pm

looking to get a QH

Post by kendawg73 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am

First, my car is a '90 5sp, I had the short block rebuilt, it was bored .030 over so it's a 306 now... I installed
reman GT40P heads (and trickflow spring kit)
E303 cam
Early Explorer upper and lower (with the internal EGR which I'm going to use, the smog pump and TAB & TAD are gone though)
I bought a new 94-95 mustang stock 70mm MAF
AccuFab 65mm TB
FFRP GT40p headers
ulp x-pipe with the 2 high flow cats
SLP load mouth exhaust (but I installed the loud mouth 2 mufflers)
3.73 gears
going to be running stock airbox (no silencer) with K&N filter

Now my main concern and why I'm thinking tuner is, I was going to get a fresh set of Bosch type 3 EV1 reman injectors (since my others have been sitting awhile and getting them clean/flow testing cost almost as much of just buying replacements.... now I was just going to order stock 19lb since I'm using a stock 94-95 maf. But I'm not 100% sure if the duty cycle of those is going to be a issue (I hear no or maybe) and 24lb are only 10.00 more but then I will have MAF issues...I know I could just buy a Pro-m maf for 24's, but that is really not the correct way to do it, which is where the tuner would come in... plus i'm sure the stock tune on the ECM was not optimal anyway... so that would be another reason...

So if I'm understanding the QH is all I would need, which looks like it's 249. and the software is 39 for the Tuner pro software, and do I need to be the BE software as well, or does the Tuner pro replace the BE software?

So if I'm understanding from what I've been reading (a lot of info to figure out and keep straight), If I get the QH, I can pull/copy the stock tune from the ECM (or is there already an updated more current one that I should get and put on there then the one on my 90 GT to start with?

Then via the software I can change the injectors from 19's to 24's (the injectors I'm looking at getting are reman Bosch 24lb type III EV1) so are there settings alleviable for these?

And since I'm using a stock 94-95 mustang MAF that is suppose to be direct swap for the Foxbody MAF and uses the 19lb injectors, would I have to change anything in the software for the MAF settings, or is just changing the injectors settings to 24lb enough?

and of course I want to turn off the TAB & TAD since I'm not putting the smog pump crap on, but will be keeping the EGR.

So, would this basically get me running with a basically stock setup but with 24 injectors?

And or course I would like to get it tuned for more optimized performance later....

User avatar
cgrey8
Administrator
Posts: 10710
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:54 am
Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
Contact:

Re: looking to get a QH

Post by cgrey8 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:31 pm

kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
First, my car is a '90 5sp, I had the short block rebuilt, it was bored .030 over so it's a 306 now... I installed
reman GT40P heads (and trickflow spring kit)
E303 cam
Early Explorer upper and lower (with the internal EGR which I'm going to use, the smog pump and TAB & TAD are gone though)
I bought a new 94-95 mustang stock 70mm MAF
AccuFab 65mm TB
FFRP GT40p headers
ulp x-pipe with the 2 high flow cats
SLP load mouth exhaust (but I installed the loud mouth 2 mufflers)
3.73 gears
going to be running stock airbox (no silencer) with K&N filter
That's stunningly similar to my original setup. The original engine in my build was a stock 97 Explorer 5.0L with the only differences being FMS GT40p headers and different sensors to make the Mustang computer work. Later, I upgraded to a 331, torque cam, and then I ported the GT40p heads and lower intake. And like you, I'm using the internal EGR and ditched the smog pump solenoids. You also upgraded the TB.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...So if I'm understanding the QH is all I would need, which looks like it's 249. and the software is 39 for the Tuner pro software, and do I need to be the BE software as well, or does the Tuner pro replace the BE software?...
You generally make a choice between TunerPro or BE. I've always used BE, however from what I understand, TunerPro has made some improvements over the years. I just can't speak to TunerPro since I don't have any experience with it.

The most important thing to consider is how good the definition is. For BE, there is an open source CBAZA def for 94-95 Mustang tunes, but I have no clue how good it is. If it isn't very good, it's not likely that TunerPro's open source one will be any better. If you go with BE, you can purchase def files, which in the past, were considered worth the money compared to the freebie. But again, that's old info. I don't know the state of the open source CBAZA defs today. But that's something to consider and figure out BEFORE you make a software decision.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...So if I'm understanding from what I've been reading (a lot of info to figure out and keep straight), If I get the QH, I can pull/copy the stock tune from the ECM (or is there already an updated more current one that I should get and put on there then the one on my 90 GT to start with?...
You can either pull the stock tune or get one on the Internet. It makes no difference if you are going to be in there making changes.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...Then via the software I can change the injectors from 19's to 24's (the injectors I'm looking at getting are reman Bosch 24lb type III EV1) so are there settings alleviable for these?...
I would expect you could get that info. But if not, you can use datalog feedback to hone in on what the values are. As I said, I've used BE ever since it was available, and it works with another software called EEC Analyzer (EA) which helps you in doing things like making MAF curve tweaks and Injector slope tweaks. I couldn't have done the injector slope stuff for my vehicles without EA. Although there are others out there that just plugged the stock values in, didn't really look back, and seemed to have no problems. That didn't describe my experience at all.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...And since I'm using a stock 94-95 mustang MAF that is suppose to be direct swap for the Foxbody MAF and uses the 19lb injectors, would I have to change anything in the software for the MAF settings, or is just changing the injectors settings to 24lb enough?...
Theoretically, if you are using the stock MAF, you shouldn't need to mess with the curve in software. But that's theory. In practice, you make changes as the datalog feedback indicates it's needed.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...and of course I want to turn off the TAB & TAD since I'm not putting the smog pump crap on, but will be keeping the EGR...
An easy thing to do.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...So, would this basically get me running with a basically stock setup but with 24 injectors? ...
The only thing I'm not seeing mentioned here is Wideband O2. I tuned for 2-3 years without a WB and got my idle and closed loop stuff tuned fine that way. But I was always guessing at what was going on at WOT without a WB. Once I got one, I kicked myself for not getting one sooner as it makes open and closed loop tuning so much easier. The WB I have, even today is an Innovate LC-1, which I'm not even sure is still made. I think it was replaced by an LC-2 which is USB-based??? Regardless, it's one of the cheapest ones out there, but I've never found I needed more. However WBs are like anything else, you can always spend more and you'll get what you pay for. The question is if you need more.
kendawg73 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 am
...And or course I would like to get it tuned for more optimized performance later....
The WB is where performance tuning would come in. But as mentioned, it makes idle, cruise, and transient tuning easier too. So include this in your budget for sure.

Completely unrelated, another thing I'd recommend is getting your GT40p headers coated unless they are already too rusty to bother with. I don't think anybody makes those headers anymore. So if that engine with those heads are something you plan to have for many years to come, you will want to get them protected. Or you may find your headers have rusted through in 20 years or so and cannot be easily replaced. I bought my headers new. Right after I got them, I sent them off for Jet-Hot coating. Today, my headers look just like they did roughly a year after I got my V8 running in the Ranger back in 2006. When I first got them, they had a mirror finish. Not even a month later, they dulled very noticeably. And after about a year, some areas around the welds started to peel. But the coating under what peeled is still in good shape and holding up with no rust anywhere on the headers (at least none that I've found). I consider that pretty good for 14 years of daily driven use on what's basically a performance part. I almost take my header coating for granted until I see Internet pictures of builds with those GT40p headers rusted all to hell.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

motorhead1991
Regular
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:32 am

Re: looking to get a QH

Post by motorhead1991 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:29 pm

I know he;s kind a a pariah around this forum, but decipha over at EFIDynoTuning supports CBAZA quite extensively.

Like cgrey said, The stock MAF will work fine with whatever injector you're running provided you can get the input correct. I can think of two trucks running the Ranger MAF and big injectors (mine included). I've had to adjust some low values on the MAF curve to clean things up, but not much else.

Binary Editor requires a license to communicate with the Quarterhorse, but TunerPro RT does not (The $39 is a donation more than a fee). I use both for my Rangers TBH.

I also second the wideband.. I was able to tune my turbo Ranger on my own vs having to put it on the rollers. I'd really like to add a standalone one to my collection of tools in order to do street tuning more effectively.
1990 Ford Ranger FLH2 conversion. Ford forged/dished pistons, Total Seal file-fit rings, Clevite rod and main bearings, Clevite cam bearings, IHI turbo, Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors, Ford slot MAF in custom 3" housing. Moates Quarterhorse with Binary Editor, using the PAAD6 database.

OpenEEC Telegram Chat:
Telegram

kendawg73
Gear Head
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Re: looking to get a QH

Post by kendawg73 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:34 am

yes, I didn't mention a WB, was hopping to add that later (still not sure how that works, do I need to weld in a new bung, or I believe I read there is one that will do the WB and also the normal O2 sensor stuff and just take the place of the drivers side O2, so you can wire that in to the stock O2 wires.. but also I read where the W2 part gets wired to the EGR signal, well I'm keeping my EGR so how would that work?).

Right now I'm hopping to get the motor run in the next couple months... just want to keep the tune stock right now... expect for the 24lb injectors (since I'm buying injectors anyway, I don't want to do it twice, so rather buy the 24's and not 19's, and just tune for the 24's, and use the new stock 94-95 mustang MAF I bought (which is suppose to be a direct swap upgrade for the foxbody running 19lb injectors, but is 70mm instead.) And of course turn off the TAB & TAD smog pump crap.

Once I get the car on the road, then I can worry about it getting a tune for a little more power, and look into the wb thing...

so really just want to do the QH to make the 24lb injectors work correctly, turn off the smog crap, and be able to monitor what's going on to troubleshoot any issues. And to start getting my feet wet and learning the tuning stuff, after I get the car all done and back on the road.

User avatar
cgrey8
Administrator
Posts: 10710
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:54 am
Location: Acworth, Ga (Metro Atlanta)
Contact:

Re: looking to get a QH

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:12 am

kendawg73 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:34 am
yes, I didn't mention a WB, was hopping to add that later (still not sure how that works, do I need to weld in a new bung, or I believe I read there is one that will do the WB and also the normal O2 sensor stuff and just take the place of the drivers side O2, so you can wire that in to the stock O2 wires.. but also I read where the W2 part gets wired to the EGR signal, well I'm keeping my EGR so how would that work?)...
It's true that Innovates have two analog outputs so that you can monitor the WB with a standard 0-5v signal and EMULATE the behavior of a HEGO with an inverted 0-1.1v output. And I guess that works OK, but based on my experience, I can get differing reading from my HEGOs and WB. Although that could be because my HEGO and WB are welded into different areas of the exhaust. The WB's bung is a fair distance from the HEGO. The only reason I did that was to get the bung oriented on the pipe so that exhaust condensation on the inside of the pipe wouldn't drip into the WB and the wire coming off the end of the WB is a bit girthier than the HEGOs so I needed more clearance and so that dictated the bung be closer down toward the CAT than up near the header.

With the WB located where one of your HEGOs currently is, it might be perfectly fine. I just can't say with absolute assurance given I've never done that and thus have no experience to speak from.

But back to your issue, my guess is you don't want to take the time to have the WB bung welded in. Despite the "optimal" answer being get the WB welded in while keeping both HEGOs. Sometimes optimal just isn't practical. I get that. I, myself, had my WB bought and sitting on the bench for probably 2 months or more waiting for a convenient time to get the truck to the exhaust shop for the bung to be welded in. So I think the question to be answered is whether I'd rather have two HEGOs and no WB or one WB and one HEGO to tune with. And given that choice, I'd choose the WB and HEGO for sure.

And if I really wanted to avoid work, I wouldn't even bother wiring in the WB into the HEGO's wiring. I'd just setup the tune for a single HEGO and force both banks to operate off the single HEGO. While this gets even further from optimal, I'd still prefer this over only the two HEGOs.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

Member V8-Ranger.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests