Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Kingfish999
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tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by Kingfish999 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:38 pm

i am toying around with an idea to convert 2 of my trucks to EDIS ignition. they are both using 96 351w truck EEC-V MAF E4OD. i am thinking about converting to 96 Explorer 5.0 PCM to do the EDIS, but the Explorers came with 4R70W and my trucks use E4OD. i know in Binary Editor i can change the PCM to use a different trans but im not sure if it is that simple or not that the PCM can jsut change its transmission strategy. the 4r70w uses an OSS where the E4OD does not so thats not an issue, other than that i believe the wiring is practically the same to the trans and MLPS.

this is all just an idea im toying around with. i know i would still need to do a 36-1 balancer and a cam position sensor for a 351w. not to mention wiring the 2 coils and and the PCM itself. i already have a crank position sensor because the trucks have a 4-point crank trigger for misfire detection
96 Bronco 351w E4OD MAF
TIN3 (AGANF) w/ Quarterhorse
425W (4.100 stroke .060 bore 351W), AFR 185, TFS-R intake, 42lb injector, Comp Cam 35-514-8

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cgrey8
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:59 am

I know there is a difference and I know that the differences are non-trivial. Each time this comes up, the specific difference is detailed and makes sense, but for the life of me, I can't ever remember what the difference is. But more importantly, EECs that control a 4R70w are not easily modified to control an E4OD. It's almost easier to just swap the trans too or use an EEC that controls E4OD and also supports EDIS. There's a chance your existing EEC does. Even the old GUFx EECs were capable of working with an external EDIS8 module to attain EDIS. Although the newer EECs incorporate the functionality of the EDIS8 module inside the EEC which is certainly a lot cleaner.

The other difference that I don't know how people get around is the differences between the Explorer's cam sensor meant for a 302 and a 351w block. Looking at pictures of the difference between 302 TFI and 352w TFI dizzies, the difference doesn't seem to be length. The difference is diameter.
Image
Image

It appears the upper machined surfaces as well as the very bottom machined surface are different between 302 and 351. But at least the gear is the same.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Kingfish999
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by Kingfish999 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:33 am

hmm. im defiantly keeping the E4OD. both my trucks have a nice built E4OD and i dont wanna have to get my driveshafts rebuilt. i know some 302 F150 had 4R70W, not sure if they used the same PCM hardware or strategy as the E4OD trucks. jsut wasnt sure fi it was as easy as selecting and tuning for a 4r70w and figured there must be more to it.

i know theres a company if not more that makes cam sensors for 351w. abit costly when you can get a replacment Explroer one for 30$
http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/bod ... nizer.html
96 Bronco 351w E4OD MAF
TIN3 (AGANF) w/ Quarterhorse
425W (4.100 stroke .060 bore 351W), AFR 185, TFS-R intake, 42lb injector, Comp Cam 35-514-8

ironmanisanemic
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by ironmanisanemic » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:27 am

Kingfish999 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:33 am hmm. im defiantly keeping the E4OD. both my trucks have a nice built E4OD and i dont wanna have to get my driveshafts rebuilt. i know some 302 F150 had 4R70W, not sure if they used the same PCM hardware or strategy as the E4OD trucks. jsut wasnt sure fi it was as easy as selecting and tuning for a 4r70w and figured there must be more to it.

i know theres a company if not more that makes cam sensors for 351w. abit costly when you can get a replacment Explroer one for 30$
http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/bod ... nizer.html
to get a cam syncronizer that works with a 351w, you will need 2 seperate cam syncs. You need one from the explorer 5.0, and another from a 99 3.8l v6. you will have to dissasemble both, but what you are doing is using the shaft from the v6 in the v8 housing. everything lines up properly, and you will have the correct drive shaft size for the oil pump. way cheaper than the pricemotorsports unit. unless you want a billet, this is just as good and a hell of a lot cheaper.
1989 Ford Bronco:
-393W, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, ProComp Upper and lower intake, Custom Comp Hyd Roller cam, 10:1 compression,FRPP LU34 34lb injectors, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm MAF, equal length short tube headers, 2.5 inch y pipe merged into single 3 inch with hooker aerochamber muffler and no cat, QH w/ BE and EA running U4P0, 4R70W

1995 Ford Mustang GT
-Bone stock minus the QH. 5 Speed. T4M0

Ford 8061/8065 processor, assembly/dissasembly, strategy development information on my GDrive Share

Kingfish999
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by Kingfish999 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:31 pm

wow thats a cool trick. ill defiantly need to keep that in mind. especially if i ever swap the 302 in my F250 for a 351w if i ever which is already using Explroer 5.0 EFI and 4r70w
96 Bronco 351w E4OD MAF
TIN3 (AGANF) w/ Quarterhorse
425W (4.100 stroke .060 bore 351W), AFR 185, TFS-R intake, 42lb injector, Comp Cam 35-514-8

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cgrey8
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:46 am

ironmanisanemic wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:27 am...You need one from the explorer 5.0, and another from a 99 3.8l v6...what you are doing is using the shaft from the v6 in the v8 housing...
The difference between the 351w 1.562" housing and 302 1.499" housing is small enough the O-ring can make up the slop and still maintain seal? For a size difference that small, is there even a difference in O-ring part number between the two dizzies?
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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ironmanisanemic
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by ironmanisanemic » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:08 am

cgrey8 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:46 am
ironmanisanemic wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:27 am...You need one from the explorer 5.0, and another from a 99 3.8l v6...what you are doing is using the shaft from the v6 in the v8 housing...
The difference between the 351w 1.562" housing and 302 1.499" housing is small enough the O-ring can make up the slop and still maintain seal? For a size difference that small, is there even a difference in O-ring part number between the two dizzies?
Like you said the difference is minimal. While I haven't run this combo yet in an engine, I have put one together for a future project. When I mocked it up in my cleveland block the o ring was sealing, but it could have used a slightly thicker one. Once the hold down was tight though, the small amount of play the housing had in the bore made no difference.
1989 Ford Bronco:
-393W, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, ProComp Upper and lower intake, Custom Comp Hyd Roller cam, 10:1 compression,FRPP LU34 34lb injectors, 75mm TB, Pro-M 80mm MAF, equal length short tube headers, 2.5 inch y pipe merged into single 3 inch with hooker aerochamber muffler and no cat, QH w/ BE and EA running U4P0, 4R70W

1995 Ford Mustang GT
-Bone stock minus the QH. 5 Speed. T4M0

Ford 8061/8065 processor, assembly/dissasembly, strategy development information on my GDrive Share

Kingfish999
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Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:52 pm

Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by Kingfish999 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:24 pm

just curious if anybody else has any more info on tuning the PCM from one electronic trans to another? i would still be curious about doing this EFI swap but all that stops me is this trans tuning issue. i would like any more input on this kind of thing


someone on a truck forum had a similar idea about using a Ford 4.9 I6 E4OD computer and tuning it for use with a 4R70W which was never offered together. they planned on using a standalone trans controller and a manual trans PCM. from CoreTunings 'supported vehicles list', it says majority of the 96 4.9 use the AGANF strategy same as the 5.0/5.8 V8s. i THINK the 96 5.0 trucks with 4R70W also use AGANF strategy.

assuming the hardware code is the same, would this mean that that i could tuning a 4.9 E4OD PCM to use 4R70W? or possibly could i tune a 5.0 4R70W PCM to be a 4.9 4R70W PCM?

like i said more info on the actual issues of this would be greatly appreciated
96 Bronco 351w E4OD MAF
TIN3 (AGANF) w/ Quarterhorse
425W (4.100 stroke .060 bore 351W), AFR 185, TFS-R intake, 42lb injector, Comp Cam 35-514-8

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BBR
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Re: tuning 4R70W PCM for E4OD trans

Post by BBR » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:29 am

I'm going to bump this thread because I am neck deep in swapping a 460/E4OD in to a 1998 Mustang GT and I hope to use the stock EEC-V PCM to run the engine. Trans control is still up in the air at the moment, but have considered piggybacking a '96 F250 EEC-IV that I have to just control the trans. The car was a 5 speed so it is not set up to control a trans, but it seems controlling an E4OD with a 4R70W PCM is a no-go anyway.

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangs ... o-4sixzero

I also built my cam position sensor yesterday. 96 Explorer, 99 4.2L F150.

I measured the housings this morning.
Explorer 302 = 1.493"
Crusty 460 distributor = 1.525"

So basically there is 0.030" diff between the two I have. I might be less if I took the time to really clean the 460 distributor. Haha.
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1983 Mustang GT 552/C6 - 10.18 @ 133

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