Problems Datalogging

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mamatried
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Problems Datalogging

Post by mamatried » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:27 am

So my quarterhorse battery went dead and Moates sent me a new chip with a new battery. After reinstalling I'm having problems getting the datalogging to work. I'm able to write tunes and the car running now, but when I set up what I want to datalog and hit START, the numbers are funky. Battery voltage shows like 4 volts and my RPM is 15,000!! I can't figure out what is going on with it. Anybody have any suggestions?
1989 Mustang GT 5-speed - 306/e303 cam/twisted wedge heads/30# inj./gt40 int./70mm TB/75mm ProM meter/BBK 190lph pump/innovative wideband/QUARTERHORSE/Binary Editor

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 am

This can happen for a few different reasons.

First make sure the def file is what matches your tune. For very similar strats like GUFA and GUFB, there'll be a number of parameters that will be lucid and correct, but others that are obviously wrong.

Assuming you've got the right strat for your tune, then the next common cause is when you setup payload items, download that combination of payloads to one tune position, then setup different/more payload items, download those to a different tune position, and at some point flip back to using the previous tune which contains the older payload combination. There's a handful of payload items that are affected by this. MAF & RPM are among them.

Just to eliminate the potential, go make sure your payload choice is the combination you want (err on the side of choosing too many items). Save that combination. Download the tune to the QH. And see if the problem goes away.

If it persists, then it's possible you are running into the dreaded wrong-tune bug which is common to see on a brand new QH. This is where you request, say tune position 1, but what's actually being served to the EEC is tune 8. The only way to confirm if this is the case is to make sure you are datalogging the TunePosition and displaying that datalogged value. Confirm the QH is actually in this state before trying to fix it. Following the procedure to get out of this state without first confirming you are already in it could inadvertently (and ironically) get you into that state. Search the forum for tune position bug to get more info about it.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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EDS50
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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:06 pm

Only thing I can add is when you received your new QH you needed to clear the ram on the QH under the hardware:quarterhorse configuration tab. all of the tune slots will have corrupt information on them unless you clear the ram (all 8 tune positions.) once the ram is clear you may proceed to write your tune to the position you usually write to. Words of advice: disconnect the fuel pump relay while doing this. Once the kam is clear you may reconnect the fuel pump relay. Also, I used to run advanced mode (mode 2 tune 2) but since I don't run a tune pos switch I leave it in basic mode. This also helps with my situation running BT and the SuperLogger with my QH.
qh1.png
qh1.png (140.61 KiB) Viewed 661 times
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

mamatried
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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by mamatried » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:34 am

Thanks for the help. I didn't have mode 2 selected, and it looks like I definitely had some corrupt tunes on all 8 positions. I haven't cleared the RAM yet but I did go in any individually clear each tune position, followed up by a basic A9L tune to position 1, and then modified that tune to get close to what I need. I can at least datalog now, but it looks like some of my sensors are not reading correctly. RPM looks good, but my temperatures are stuck on 60 degrees and my TPS is stuck at 1.25. Right now i'm trying to figure out why my car will start up fine when cold, but when it comes up on temperature it won't restart. Fuel pressure is good and with a screwdriver I can hear the injectors firing, but I have a very weak spark it seems. New plugs, coil and TFI didn't help, so now I'm waiting on a new distributor.
1989 Mustang GT 5-speed - 306/e303 cam/twisted wedge heads/30# inj./gt40 int./70mm TB/75mm ProM meter/BBK 190lph pump/innovative wideband/QUARTERHORSE/Binary Editor

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:54 am

Make sure your payload and gauges are set up correctly and written to the hardware. As far as the hot hard start; try reducing your fn348 msec values in the ect temps you are experiencing the hard start.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:50 pm

You've got multiple problems mentioned, so I don't want to go answering each one, as each one could easily be their own thread.

But the not starting when warm could be injector cranking PW. That function is based on ECT and if the pulses are too short when warm, it cranks too lean. If you upgraded injectors or are using a high ethanol fuel like E85 and used some conversion to recalculate new PWs for that cranking function, you might have pulses that are too small on the warm end.

Try adding 0.5ms to the higher temp range and see if that makes it crank better when warm. 0.5ms is a good number to test with as it's enough to make a difference, but not likely so much that it'll be an over-reaction and completely flood the engine if it's making things worse. If that gets the engine cranking when warm, you can decide whether you want to further tinker and minimize the cranking PW or just keep it as-is.

Edit:
It's funny that Eds is recommending reducing the PW. I've always experienced my recalculated values being to small on the warm end causing lean cranks. It'll be interesting to see which it ends up being in this case.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:59 pm

I have always lowered those values from factory default for larger than 24# injectors with success.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:11 pm

EDS50 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:59 pm
I have always lowered those values from factory default for larger than 24# injectors with success.
That makes sense particularly when factory injectors are 19s.

I was taking the default values and multiplying them by the ratio between factory injectors and the new injectors. So for example when I upgraded from 17 to 36lb injectors, I multiplied the stock values in that function by (17/36) or .47. But the small values that are on the hot end wound up being too small and caused a lean-crank. I always attributed this to my reduction technique not taking into account that the PW includes the injector "opening" offset which doesn't change by this ratio. In the case of me replacing Bosch EV6 injectors with higher flowing Bosch EV6 injectors, the offset probably didn't change at all.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:17 pm

I reduced my msec values in fn348 from 2.00 to 0.35 from 180 ect up for my siemens deka 80's. I could probably reduce them a little more but I can start the car with a flick of the key during all operating conditions without getting into the car. I didn't follow any math to come up with my specs; just good old fashioned give the car what she wants and remove what she don't. 8)
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by cgrey8 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:25 pm

Now this is probably hijacking the thread to talk about this, but you bring up something I've always wanted to know about. Cranking with ignition vs cranking by push-start. If I crank with the ignition, it always takes a solid 1 second on the ignition starter. I can hear that CONSISTENTLY 4 cylinders are passing before the engine starts. However if I push-start, it and I moving fast enough, it doesn't take more than 2 cylinders before the engine is running. It's as if the EEC is purposely withholding fuel for X number of cylinder fires when the ignition key is being used. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems the case.

Is there really programming that differs crank fueling strategy based on whether there's an ignition crank-signal vs the EEC detecting that the engine is being push-started? If so, how do I defeat that so I can get my engine to crank with quick blip of they key? My old stock 2.9L V6 would ignition-crank with a blip of the key. And I've always been a little annoyed that neither of the V8s I replaced it with would.

My best-guess is it has something to do with SEFI synching.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:45 pm

cgrey8 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:25 pm
Now this is probably hijacking the thread to talk about this, but you bring up something I've always wanted to know about. Cranking with ignition vs cranking by push-start. If I crank with the ignition, it always takes a solid 1 second on the ignition starter. I can hear that CONSISTENTLY 4 cylinders are passing before the engine starts. However if I push-start, it and I moving fast enough, it doesn't take more than 2 cylinders before the engine is running. It's as if the EEC is purposely withholding fuel for X number of cylinder fires when the ignition key is being used. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems the case.

Is there really programming that differs crank fueling strategy based on whether there's an ignition crank-signal vs the EEC detecting that the engine is being push-started? If so, how do I defeat that so I can get my engine to crank with quick blip of they key? My old stock 2.9L V6 would ignition-crank with a blip of the key. And I've always been a little annoyed that neither of the V8s I replaced it with would.

My best-guess is it has something to do with SEFI synching.
My educated guess would have to do with the ignition switch and how it is distributing power to the ignition, fuel pump, starter and relays when turned to crank to initiate cranking mode vs. turning the key on which primes the fuel pump and energizes the ignition, starter, ecm and relays and pushing a start button which in turn does not utilize cranking mode operation. Look how fast a carb car turns over...night and day difference from a efi car. My reply is not worded the best but makes sense in my head... :biggrin:
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

mamatried
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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by mamatried » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:55 pm

I'm still waiting on my new distributor to see if that fixes the problem, but do you know where I can get a template for my 30# ford injectors. They are the redtop ones. I have a flow chart that came with my Pro-M 75mm maf so I can adjust that and then get it closer once I can start datalogging my AFR. I can try adjusting the warm engine injector pulse width to see if that makes a difference, but I never had to do that before my quarterhorse battery died in the old one. I did rebuild my injectors but didn't change anything else.
1989 Mustang GT 5-speed - 306/e303 cam/twisted wedge heads/30# inj./gt40 int./70mm TB/75mm ProM meter/BBK 190lph pump/innovative wideband/QUARTERHORSE/Binary Editor

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:33 pm

Ill post the fuel injector specs for you when I get to my laptop.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:48 pm

m-9593-b302 30#.pdf
(17.09 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
lo slope=32.8176
hi slope=30.2328
breakpoint=2.134

offset=
16.00v=0.441
15.00v=0.441
14.00=0.519
13.00=0.627
12.00=0.730
11.00=0.872
10.00=1.057
8.00v=1.669
6.00v=3.253
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

mamatried
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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by mamatried » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:49 am

Awesome thanks!
1989 Mustang GT 5-speed - 306/e303 cam/twisted wedge heads/30# inj./gt40 int./70mm TB/75mm ProM meter/BBK 190lph pump/innovative wideband/QUARTERHORSE/Binary Editor

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Re: Problems Datalogging

Post by EDS50 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:56 am

mamatried wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:49 am
Awesome thanks!
No problem. 8)
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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