heads

black sunshine · Post by **black sunshine** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:46 am

what are your opinions on some good heads for a 306 with fly-cut pistons? that's about all i know about this short block that is for sale, hope that is enough info. the rest of the setup would be something along the lines of a b303, performer rpm, 65mm tb, full exhuast, bla bla bla. i heard that twisted wedge heads are good with these, but who knows whether my sources are good or not, thanks

mrprism · Post by **mrprism** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:55 pm

I am a huge fan of AFR . Air Flow Research heads come fully CNC ported, are made to order, and flow better. (size for size)

gin · Post by **gin** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:54 pm

The AFR heads are excellent, I agree with MrPrism. And you can do much better than a b303 cam.

black sunshine · Post by **black sunshine** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:58 pm

ok, so speaking of cams, i have heard time and time again, that the alphabet cams, are old news. what are some better ones to look at, i know some people have custom ground cams hmm hmmm, Jon!! how much do those run?

gin · Post by **gin** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:15 pm

Call Comp Cams, it's free, and just talk to them. They will do a custom cam just for your setup. Not cheep but worth every penny.

black sunshine · Post by **black sunshine** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:27 pm

will do, thanks

Post by **Jon 94GT** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 1:39 pm

A custom cam will run somewhere between ~$280-400 depending on who you get it from. I would recommend talking to Ed Curtis from FTI about a custom, he seems to be doing wonders with mustangs lately. The best place to ask how to contact him would be on the corral.net message board (http://www.corral.net/forums).

blown54 · Post by **blown54** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:58 pm

well i'm not a big fan of the afr's and here's why-- 1 they are pretty much maxed out when you get them,you can't real port them much more. 2 they don't like to run to well above 5500 rpm, And 3 they don't leave much margin on the vavles when you get them,so in the future when you plan to go thru and regrind them you end up replacing the vavles(not enough material),since they have this tight margin thats how they get them to flow so well! they do provide good bang for the buck and there quality is real good but then again they do have these problems.I have ran Performer RPM's with great success on my 85 a few yrs ago with 9 to 1 comp.,victor jr.intake, 700 cfm carb,5 sp. and 4:10 gears the car ran 12:30's at 112mph with drag radial t/a's.currently my 94 convertible has the twisted wedge heads and i really like them,the new ones out now have better valve guide's than the ones they made a few yrs ago the car has ran 13:40 at 104 mph with these and gt-40 intake and x cam and 3:73 gears,(remember this car is heavy)so if it was up to me and wanted a head that i could put on now and run and in the future up grade i would go with the twisted wedge heads.Or if you have the room try the victor jr. heads if you realy want to make power(out of the box).My freind ran AFR 185's and said if he had it all to do over again he would have used the victor jr's he said that the AFR's gave up to muchon the top end.For the camshaft I would call comp cams(1 800-999-0853) and talk to there tech support,they do a great job, just make sure you got all your info on your car before you call,Good luck

TurboX2 · Post by **TurboX2** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:56 pm

blown54 wrote: 1 they are pretty much maxed out when you get them,you can't real port them much more.

B.S. CNC ported doesn't mean maxed out, they have plenty of room for further porting. Hell the 165 uses the same casting as the 185, so how can you claim the casting is maxed out? The 185s have plenty of room too.

2 they don't like to run to well above 5500 rpm,

??? Right, funny how all guys I know with them have combos that rip right to the rev limiter. That depends more on the cam and intake than the heads, if you've had/seen a combo that wouldn't pull above 5500 rpm then something else was wrong with it.

blown54 · Post by **blown54** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:02 pm

Well tell you the truth i have never seen a set of these heads make much power over 6000 rpm (that's what i'm talking about not how high they spin) you can rev them to the the limiter but are you making any more power NO, and as you say they are cnc ported, but i stated that you can't go much farther not that you can't port them any more just not much more,that is all that i got to say on that.As for the difference between 165's and 185's, the 185's do come from the 165 casting thats how i can say they are pretty much maxed out,call a couple of good cylinder head guys and they will tell you the same and they will tell you about the bad margins in the vavles.I'm not here to B.S. anyone just give the facts on what i have found out. please read the post better next time before you go ripping on someone.

TurboX2 · Post by **TurboX2** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 11:23 am

I have plenty of information from an excellent engine builder. The 185s will reach 300 cfm with decent porting, thats no potential? The 165s are the same casting, so with bigger valves and the same porting could also hit 300 cfm. You want to see 6000+ power? Look at the Pure Street guys running n/a 306s into the 10s and shifting at 7500-8000 rpm... You're welcome to your opinions, I've seen otherwise.

blown54 · Post by **blown54** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:56 pm

have you ever ran these heads,whats your personal experience ,i have ran these on a couple of different motors and had better luck with other heads,also 300 cfm isn't much more than the 277 cfm stock.

TurboX2 · Post by **TurboX2** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:30 pm

I have several friends running them. One had (sold now to do a 347 with 205s) a stock 170k mile shortblock, 165s milled .020, Edelbrock Performer 5.0 with ported lower, custom cam, and went 11.77 @ 118 at around 3150 lbs. Heads were untouched except the milling. 3 others I know have gone between 115-117 with similar combos and one of them put down 340rwhp, 340rwtq. Another friend has a 408 with out of the box 205s, unported Vic Jr, too small Mac 1-3/4" 351 headers, 650cfm carb, small custom hyd. roller, and that motor made over 500/500 flywheel under 6k rpm with some tuning issues. Also, 300 cfm is a ton for most combos and a lot from that head if the port volume isn't increased greatly. My personal experiences with the AFRs have been nothing but outstanding, I would gladly use them on just about any combo.

Ghudnub · Post by **Ghudnub** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:31 pm

Here's some "facts" for you guys to mull over. I can't attest to the porting aspects. But the flow numbers are right here for all to see.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Ford

BTW, this guy has some other decent info on his site too. Specifically, fuel injector data.

You can go back to your bashing benchracing now.

Greg

Ghudnub · Post by **Ghudnub** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:45 pm

Besides, CFM shows the potential of the head. What about the intake? We all know it's a systems approach right? Here's the matching flow numbers:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/sto ... rload.html

Anyone have the Super Ford that ran the following month(s) that has the same intakes after they were all extrude honed? I threw all my old rags away. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!

How many intske runners do you see flowing 300cfm? An extrude honed 94-95 Cobra intake will just barely reach 300 cfm on any individual runner.

More food for thought. I guess guys with boost would notice the limitations more than n/a guys. Later.

Greg

blown54 · Post by **blown54** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:00 pm

you are so right on that Greg, air flow potential is only as good as the some of its parts,with that said the 5.0mustang and super ford mag.november 2002 did a high flow intake shoot out and here is the results,just wished they were flow numbers instead of dyno numbers---victor 5.0 458.8 hp @ 6750 rpm 391.6 tq @5750 rpm
probe spyder 473.9 7250 384.2 5750
trick flow r 439.7 6250 393.3 5250
trick flow box 463.0 7250 383.1 5750
vortech mondo 470.7 7000 387.0 5750
reichard racing billet upper 474.2 7250 386.9 6000
all these intakes were also treated to a stage 2 port job and opened up 90 mm. If any one is interested in how I get my information on what I know about cylinder heads and such its because I work for engine development at Fo.Mo.Co. and we do alot of machining work on all parts of the engine boring, honing, vavle work making rods,our building did the development,machining and build up for the 2000 Cobra R,and I also build motors on the side,but like anything else your never an expert only a lifetime apprentice. btw i'm not into bashing anyone i just took offense on when someone else has to say i'm full of b.s. when i do this stuff for a living. thanks Greg on the site for heads great info on the old stock stuff you never hear about. :D

blown54 · Post by **blown54** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 6:24 pm

I don't like to quote magazines since you never get a straight answer since some of the tested parts are paid advertisers.And i don't think they would want to lose anyone from that if they gave them a bad reveiw.Now if i can just find that site with flow numbers on intakes like the cylinder head site you gave Greg,it would be nice to see how these intakes flow stock. Jeff

Ghudnub · Post by **Ghudnub** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:53 pm

Yeah, everyone write an email to 5.0 Mustang and Superford magazine, tell them we'd like to see the intake shootout revisited, and then redo it after some extrude hone work gets done. I'd like to see the Performer vs. Typhoon vs. Holley vs. Cobra vs. Trick Flow vs. bone stock vs....any more to add to the list?

Later.
Greg

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