[MdntRanger50]

I am jumping back on the tuning wagon again and this time I plan to stick with it till I am a tuning addict. I changed out my cam over the weekend to a comp 270HR-14 (35-310-8) http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDe ... =1049&sb=2 so it will play better with the kenne bell (later on) and for better street manors. Combo is in my sig. So we'll say this is my 4 engine combo to tune with the tweecer. Each one before I would get running pretty good or good enough and then stop tweeking at it. This time I want to perfect at it. So my goal is the get my new engine combo tuned as well as I can NA. Then later when I add the kenne bell I will be more knowledgeable with how, when, where, and why with things. Then maybe it will be easier for me to tune a boosted application if I have a better understanding of how everything works together. Right now I really want to rekindle the stuff I have forgotten since the last time. Basically start from the begin.

I want to tune idle, part throttle, and WOT in that order. I purchased a complete package LM-2 kit but I do not have it installed yet, was going to do that when I rework the exhaust. I probably should put the WB on now, first thing before anything huh?

So right now I am focusing on idle. I am using 24lb EV6 injectors with the matching ford racing injectors specs HS, LS, BP, and offsets. I replaced my C&L with a stock fox mustang meter and running the stock A9L MAF transfer to eliminate the MAF out of the equation to dial in the injectors and idle better. Went through resetting the throttle blade procedure, set TP volts at .96 Set idle scalars. Here is where I am at: idles 690-720 (set at 712), ISCDC 31-32, spark 19-21, actual load 19, INJDUTY 2.1, PW's 3.6-3.7 When I clear the KAM and restart at operating temps after a while in CL the KAMRF's start climbing and go all the way to 1.121 and the LTFT's go to 12.1 then the ISCDC is at 38-39%.

What should I do next to dial in my injectors and idle more?

Note: I also have all smog related equipment turned off and changed the exhaust pulse delay for the longer tube tri-y headers.

Thanks
James

[MdntRanger50]

I been digging up more info on the injectors I am using right now. They are bosch 0280155715 ford part# F5DEB5A slim blue design III with the Jetronic/Minitimer rectangle connector. I probably shouldn't be using the settings for the Ford Racing injectors M-9593-AA302 like I have been. I would like to firgure out which vehicle and engine these were used on and view the stock bin settings for it, but I still haven't come up with solid data on what car and year ford used these in. Different sources say: 1997 Crown Vic 4.6L, 96-98 Taurus 3.0L DOHC, and the Lincoln Navigator. I found two different flow ratings for these injectors:

22.5lbs, 235.9cc/min at 43.5PSI
23.7lbs, 249.0cc/min at 43.5PSI

These are the setting that were recommend to use.

High slope: 24.1204

Low slope: 25.9555

Injector breakpoint: 1.1918

Crank fuel pulsewidth:
-65536 -20 0 20 40 70 150 180 65534
39.691 39.691 22.414 14.488 10.754 5.8359 2.3555 2.0469 2.0469

Voltage offset:
0 0 0 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 15.938
4.8125 4.8125 4.8125 3.1875 1.8438 1.2188 1.00 0.875 0.75 0.625 0.5625 0.5625

My rail mounted fuel pressure gauge is showing around 36 PSI at idle with vacuum connected, so i am going to check it with a mechnical test gauge to comfirm what it really is. Then use these settings, datalog and run the numbers through EA.

[MdntRanger50]

I used the above settings and it really didn't change much, KAMRF's still rise to 1.121 after a while indicating the ECU is adding fuel. So I checked fuel pressure and found it to be 33psi at idle with vacuum connected, remove vacuum and it goes to 40. Changed out the regulator to another stock unit and now I have 34psi with vacuum, 41 without. I decided to use the Ford Racing injectors M-9593-AA302 specs again but this time I refigured all the values for 34psi with the offset multipliers vs fuel pressure info they provide with the injector specs. After this change the KAMRF's got better, only getting up to around 1.08 on both banks. I then decided to use the reconfigured HS and LS values but use the stock A9L BP and voltage offset settings and the data log showed much better improvement. Now the KAMRF's only go to 1.016 then settle back to around 1.008 after about 10 mins of idling. Keep in mind I am only data logging at idle. My procedure before each data log is this: engine at operating temp, make changes to tune, clear KAM, restart and wait about 30 seconds then start logging. I ran the last data log through EA and it is suggesting a numerical lower number on the LS then the HS with a BP of 5. This doesn't look right, seems backwards, IDK.

I think I am making improvements based off of what the KAMRF's are reporting, right? Does it look like I am getting closer to what I should have? Also how accurate is the stock A9L MAF transfer?

[bender460]

The stock MAF is good to use for tuning injectors. While it may not be perfect as far as the transfer curve I'll bet it is much closer than your other meter.

I really think you should be forcing open loop. Allot of times the ecu can goof up when the engine is not stock. Not saying it is goofing up but forcing open loop will eliminate the possibility. This way you can tune and see what changes you make instantly. No more waiting for the KAMRF's and reseting the ecu every time you make a change to the tune.

You may also find your engine will like a different afr at idle. I've seen it many times. So don't be afraid to try AFR's from 14 to 16 you may be surprised.

You can always turn close loop back on later to see how it reacts to your tune.

[MdntRanger50]

Thanks bender460 for the reply. My C&L has the tuner tube that has been flowed to match my air intake setup. But to elminate the possiblity of something not being right with it I decided to just use a stock MAF meter and stock transfer for now. Should I force open loop or maybe just turn off adaptive learning for dialing in the injectors?

You may also find your engine will like a different afr at idle. I've seen it many times. So don't be afraid to try AFR's from 14 to 16 you may be surprised.

My idle does seem to be rich even after it goes into close loop with KAMRF's close to 1 and the o2's switching at stoich. My eyeballs start burning telling me so. I dont have my WB hooked up yet to know exactly what the AFR is at idle. I just swapped the cam out and the new cam is very mild.

[bender460]

You really need the wide band hooked up. You could just turn adaptive off but you won't be able to change idle AFR's. I don't know how your idle tuning is going but here is a cut and paste of a procedure that works well for me. I would use all stock settings for MAF and injectors. Also force open loop. Don't forget to reset you ecu also.


" The throttle body airflow idle scalar is the amount of air flowing through the throttle body when closed without added air from the ISC. To adjust the parameter, I warmed the car up, disconnected the ISC, pulled the spout connector and set timing to 18* (because I want 18* timing at idle) in order to lock in timing. I then turned the throttle set screw to the lowest possible idle my car would maintain. I then set the TPS to .95. Then I datalogged the airflow for about 1 min. I opened the datalog with Excel and averaged the idle speed and MAF flow, converted the result from kg/hr to lb/min, and input that parameter.

The ISC function is the amount of air flowing through the ISC at XX duty cycle. What I did here was write down each duty cycle shown in the ISC transfer function. The first DC that flows air in my table was .28, so I input .28 into the entire column so I would have .28 DC no matter what the EEC tried to do. Again with the SPOUT disconnected and timing locked in I datalogged airflow with the ISC connected. This gave me my total airflow at .28 DC. I then repeated this for every DC in the function. Once I had all the data I averaged the idle again, then averaged the airflow. I converted to lb/min, and subtracted the throttle body base airflow from the result. This gave me the airflow in lb/min of the ISC at each duty cycle. I then populated the ISC function with my results.

After this is done, you can take the total airflow number for both the TB and ISC with your averaged RPM and populate the neutral and drive idle air functions.

Now the EEC knows how much air is flowing through the TB and how much extra air each duty cycle of the ISC will result in."


I'll add a little to this. After this is done data log ISC or IAC duty cycle. I like to target 35%. You may need to readjust the throttle blade set screw to obtain 35%. Restart engine many times. Small adjustments seem to take forever to register on the duty cycle. If you do need to adjust the set screw I would revisit paragraph one but leave the set screw alone and get a new TB airflow number.

[MdntRanger50]

Thanks for posting up the procedure you use. I have the idle working really well but I am still have trouble getting the slopes,BP,offset for the injectors worked out. I am begining to think that either the stock MAF transfer is not that accurate or maybe my ram air setup is screwing it up. More than likey a little of both.

[EDS50]

Thanks for posting up the procedure you use. I have the idle working really well but I am still have trouble getting the slopes,BP,offset for the injectors worked out. I am begining to think that either the stock MAF transfer is not that accurate or maybe my ram air setup is screwing it up. More than likey a little of both.

If you want, you can try this maf curve for the meter you are using. It is an up to date curve for your 73mm meter; however it was flowed on the flowbench using a stock airbox and intake tract and k&n air filter so you may need to make some tweaks since you are using a ram air and ev6 style injectors. You may need to lean out the kg/hr under 1 volt to fine tune the idle.

c&l flow bench maf xfer.CSV

(692 Bytes) Downloaded 523 times

[MdntRanger50]

Thanks EDS50 for the info. What calibration tube was used in the meter when it was flow tested? I put a stock meter back on and using the factory A9L MAF curve as to elminate that as another factor while trying to dial in my injectors. My C&L 73 has the tuner tube installed and was flowed with a 12 inch K&N conical in a cold air box to fender setup. I dont think they can simulate a ramair setup, so this is as close as I can get to a accurate flow test. This curve has worked well though. Maybe I should put it back in and see.

My lastest injector setting seem to be working better. With these settings the computer is pulling a little fuel at idle and part throttle driving.

High 23.75
Low 26.00
Bp 1.3

Offset
15.9375 0.8125
15.0000 0.8125
14.0000 0.9063
13.0000 1.0000
12.0000 1.1250
11.0000 1.2500
10.0000 1.4375
9.0000 1.7188
8.0000 2.0000
7.0000 2.7500
6.0000 3.5000
0.0000 3.5000

[EDS50]

Thanks EDS50 for the info. What calibration tube was used in the meter when it was flow tested? I put a stock meter back on and using the factory A9L MAF curve as to elminate that as another factor while trying to dial in my injectors. My C&L 73 has the tuner tube installed and was flowed with a 12 inch K&N conical in a cold air box to fender setup. I dont think they can simulate a ramair setup, so this is as close as I can get to a accurate flow test. This curve has worked well though. Maybe I should put it back in and see.

My lastest injector setting seem to be working better. With these settings the computer is pulling a little fuel at idle and part throttle driving.

High 23.75
Low 26.00
Bp 1.3

Offset
15.9375 0.8125
15.0000 0.8125
14.0000 0.9063
13.0000 1.0000
12.0000 1.1250
11.0000 1.2500
10.0000 1.4375
9.0000 1.7188
8.0000 2.0000
7.0000 2.7500
6.0000 3.5000
0.0000 3.5000

It was flowed with the 24# calibration tube. It was rich at idle so I lowered the kg/hr from 1.09v down by 10%. It is to my understanding that some cone filter configurations can wreak havoc on the signal due to fan wash if not isolated from the alternator (alt. fan) and some cooling fan configurations.

[MdntRanger50]

Would you mind taking a look see at my last datalog? Can we upload datalog files here or do we have to have them hosted elsewhere?

[EDS50]

Would you mind taking a look see at my last datalog? Can we upload datalog files here or do we have to have them hosted elsewhere?

You should be able to upload any datalog or tune or such as long as its not over 2mb (I think 2mb or 3mb is the max uploadable).

[MdntRanger50]

k here it is. Thanks

[EDS50]

k here it is. Thanks

If you dont mind, please post your tune or at least maf curve as well so I/we can get a better read on things.

[MdntRanger50]

Sure thing. Keep in mind this datalog and tune reflex's the use of a stock fox meter/electronics and the factory A9L MAF curve.

[EDS50]

Sure thing. Keep in mind this datalog and tune reflex's the use of a stock fox meter/electronics and the factory A9L MAF curve.

Everything seemed to be fine until about 64 seconds where the lambses went leaner than they should. There is no mph being datalogged so I am not sure if you were driving or just idle/revving in the driveway. The lean lambses could be indicating the transition from open loop idle to closed loop idle but I cant tell with the datalog. Are you using ev1 or ev6 style injectors?

[MdntRanger50]

I have a tweecer so limited on how much I can log. I need to delete something from my payload and add the mph. I been thinking of getting a QH, maybe santa will bring me one. When ever the rpms going above 800 in the log the truck is moving, below 800 at idle. Using EV6 injectors.

[MdntRanger50]

Thanks for taking the time to view my log. Here lately I have been experimenting with running the X3Z tune and comparing differences between it and the A9L. I am surprised by the noticeable running differences between the two bins. Especially on deceleration with the X3Z and at how the engine just sounds totally different as well. Idk, maybe it is all in my head, but I think I am going to continue playing with the X3Z as my base and tinker with it for a while.

[cgrey8]

The X3Z has DFSO turned ON and active by default where the A9L doesn't. I don't doubt the difference you hear is the A9L gurgles or bubbles on decel where the X3Z sounds smoother on decel. The gurgling you hear is generally from the EEC running the engine really rich and the combustion continuing out the exhaust making the random gurgling sounds. With the X3Z turning off the injectors during decel, you only hear smooth decel tones from the engine.

Those aren't the only differences. Just do a compare between an A9L and X3Z tune and you'll see they are quite different base-tunes. I personally prefer the X3Z over the A9L. But that's just me.