Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Cougar281
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Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:00 pm

As I said in one of my other threads, before I swapped in the 2004 PCM, I had a 96/97 FTE1 PCM with a tune from Modular Depot. It was (supposedly) tuned for 89, for the parts in my sig, and had decent low-end grunt, as well as a good top end (could bark the tires on the 1-2 @ 6000). Obviously, with the differences in the two PCMs, I couldn't just copy & paste the tables from the FTE1 tune to the PTP2 tune, so I'm running with a mostly stock 2004 Mustang GT tune. It doesn't seem to have as much low-end grunt as it had before, and even the top end seems somewhat lacking (It's not horrible, just doesn't seem quite the same).

Any thoughts on what I can do to try and refine the tune a bit? I don't want to put a ton of time or money into tuning it as it sits because I plan to drop a DOHC in, just not sure on exactly WHAT I want. I want to start with a Teksid block, so I'm always watching for a cheap 96/97 Mark VIII motor. Not sure weather I want to stick with the 96/97 heads, or look for a set of 03/04 Mach1 heads, weather I want to keep stock displacement or bore it out to give me 5.0L displacement with stock stroke.

On the subject of tuning, I kinda want to swap out my "Pink Top" injectors (Since NO ONE seems to know what they REALLY are) for something known such as maybe a set of GenIII 24# injectors. Granted, I don't need 24# injectors, but I would think running them at a lower DC to inject the same amount of fuel wouldn't hurt. To change the injector size and get the same amount of fuel injected, is it really as "simple" as changing about 7 tables?
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Nitemare
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Location: Oklahoma

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Nitemare » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:55 pm

I can't really help you much on the tune part, but your "mystery" injectors are 22# injectors.
96 XR-7: 4.6 NPI: Comp 268, 4.10's, J-mod, Moates F3, SVO, 90mm LMAF

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:29 am

Nitemare wrote:I can't really help you much on the tune part, but your "mystery" injectors are 22# injectors.
That's what I thought, but unlike other "known" injectors, everyone says something different, and the tune appears to be set up for 19# injectors.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Yell04
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Posts: 55
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:48 am

The stock GT tune is set up for 19# injectors. Where are you at with the tune? You say you're refining it but where is it at now? Have you made adjustments for the injectors and MAF?

Everything I'm coming across says those are stock injectors from a Mustang GT before they changed the color to Orange so the 19# values should be correct.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:36 pm

Yell04 wrote:The stock GT tune is set up for 19# injectors. Where are you at with the tune? You say you're refining it but where is it at now? Have you made adjustments for the injectors and MAF?
The current tune is a stock Mustang GT tune with the main changes being codes for hardware that's no longer there (FRPS, EVAP) being disabled and shift points being raised for WOT. Other than that, no tm uch is changed. Since the MAF is a stock Mustang MAF, it shouldn't need any adjustments in the tune.

Yell04 wrote: Everything I'm coming across says those are stock injectors from a Mustang GT before they changed the color to Orange so the 19# values should be correct.
And that's the problem with these stupid things. Yes, they're stock 03/04 Mustang GT injectors, but no one seems to have a clue what they really are. I've read 19, 21.5, 22, 23.7 :confused:... Most of the "specs" I have found on the internet say 21 or 22.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Yell04
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Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:06 pm

What are you using to tune with? If BE, post your .bin/.beb as I'm using the same processor and could look through it if you'd like.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:58 pm

Here's what's currently loaded... Although it doesn't appear to show all the changes, such as the DTC's I've disabled.
Attachments
PTP2 Test 9-20-10_2142.zip
(283.84 KiB) Downloaded 373 times
Last edited by Cougar281 on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

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Cougar281
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Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:38 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:47 am

Dumb question I just thought of... Do the Explorers have different cams than the Mustangs, and if they do, are they different enough to require a change in the tune?
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

cougarnut281
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Posts: 1075
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Location: Kentucky

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by cougarnut281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:11 am

The cams are the same.

Yell04
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Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:19 am

Is that file actually a .zip or did you rename it to upload? If I try to unzip it I get an error that it's corrupt and if I rename it I get other errors when opening in BE.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:33 am

Yell04 wrote:Is that file actually a .zip or did you rename it to upload? If I try to unzip it I get an error that it's corrupt and if I rename it I get other errors when opening in BE.
Well, it was zipped up. The file was fine on my end, but when I re-downloaded it, it was corrupt. Odd. I just re-uploaded it and just renamed the extension to .zip, rather than actually zip it up, and it APPEARS to be identical when I re-download it.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Yell04
Gear Head
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:25 pm

Without digging too deep, it looks like you could stand to add quite a bit of timing, even if you're running 87 octane. Even with being F/I, I have significantly more timing dialed in than you do. Granted, I'm tuned for 91 octane and always run 93, being F/I I should still be more limited than you being N/A.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:57 pm

Yell04 wrote:Without digging too deep, it looks like you could stand to add quite a bit of timing, even if you're running 87 octane. Even with being F/I, I have significantly more timing dialed in than you do. Granted, I'm tuned for 91 octane and always run 93, being F/I I should still be more limited than you being N/A.
So I guess stock tuning is SUPER conservative?

How do you know where/how much timing to add and how much is too much? With a diesel, when it starts to rattle you have too much timing (I want to learn how to tune my Duramax too)... what about a gas motor?
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Yell04
Gear Head
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:29 pm

Do a search on BKT vs MBT spark. There's several very informative posts floating around regarding this by people way smarter/experienced than me.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:11 pm

Yell04 wrote:Do a search on BKT vs MBT spark. There's several very informative posts floating around regarding this by people way smarter/experienced than me.
Your post appears to be the only one on the board with "BKT" in it, but I'll do some reading on what came up on a search for "MBT Spark". Another dumb question... Would turning the knock sensors on be a good "safety" for playing with timing? My motor has two "doughnut" knock sensors in the valley, and they're hooked up to the PCM.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

Yell04
Gear Head
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Yell04 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:25 pm

BKT = Borderline Knock Table
MBT = Maximum Brake Torque

The GTs didn't have knock sensors so those must be from the Exploder.
Quarterhorse Tuned
FBFG2 Strat(Thanks popsracing.com), PTP2 EEC
04 Mustang GT, Paxton Novi 1000 w/supporting mods

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Cougar281
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Re: Refining the Tune

Post by Cougar281 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Yell04 wrote:BKT = Borderline Knock Table
MBT = Maximum Brake Torque

The GTs didn't have knock sensors so those must be from the Exploder.
Gocha.

And correct, the KS are from the Exploder.
1995 Mercury Cougar XR7 -
  • 2002 "Explorer" 4.6L V8
  • "Pink Top" F0TE-D9B Injectors
  • 2002 Mustang GT MAF
  • J-Modded 1999 Mustang GT 4R70W Trans
  • 22c Plugs
  • Cobra Radiator & Fan
  • 255LPH Fuel Pump
  • 180* T-Stat
  • 2004 Mustang GT PTP2 PCM
  • QH v1.6 & BE.

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