[dmills4229]

I am really struggling trying to understand how my tuner configured my MAF transfer function. The values are much lower than my MAF flow sheet. Additionally, the value he used for the Engine displacement is very low too. All this makes load look weird when I am data logging. If these values are in lbs/min., how does QH know the difference from when lbs/min values are entered vs. kg/hr?

Here is the MAF transfer.
5.0000 92.198
4.6499 78.257
4.5000 71.604
4.3501 65.267
4.2000 58.930
4.0500 53.228
3.8999 47.841
3.7500 43.089
3.6001 38.653
3.4500 34.535
3.3000 30.733
3.1499 27.564
3.0000 25.030
2.8501 22.178
2.7000 19.643
2.5500 17.426
2.3999 15.208
2.2000 12.673
2.0000 10.772
1.8501 9.505
1.7000 8.238
1.5500 6.653
1.3999 5.386
1.2500 4.119
1.1001 3.485
0.9500 2.851
0.8000 2.218
0.6499 1.901
0.5000 1.267
0.0000 1.267

Here is the Engine Displacement
41.02939

[Paulie]

With engine displacement being so low he must have scaled the tune. Those values are probably kg/hr. What size engine do you have?

[LeadHead]

What are your injector values? What does BE say the units are?

[dmills4229]

I'm like, is the tuner just trying to be tricky or what? Why go through all the trouble of converting the values like that?

It is a 331ci engine.

Injector Low Slope = 61.9997
Injector High Slope = 59.7595

Fuel Injectors are in fact Siemens Deka 60lbs.

How would I tell what the units are in BE? If it is the radio button in the User Preferences menu, under Flow, the kg/hr radio button is selected.

[ironmanisanemic]

To me those look like lbs/min. Their is user configuration that let's you select units to display, but depending on who wrote your definition, And how they wrote it will depend if it will switch in the tuner. When you switch that radio button from one to the other and select apply when you go to the maf transfer function, you will see the units at the top. If they changed it will also rescale the function for the new unit. If it didn't change then the def author only used the one. BE doesn't know if your putting in kg/hr or lbs/min, it assumes that you are putting in the right values for whichever one is in the def/selected in user preferences.

And that displacement scalar is for ONE cylinder. If you multiply that by the number of cylinders then you should see your true engine displacement.

Post up your tune so we can take a look at it.

[Paulie]

Something doesn't seem right. At least in my version of BE, SARCHG is the displacement of all cylinders, 302 cu. in. in my case, not one cylinder. It's possible your tuner thought it was for one cylinder and that would explain strange load readings. Post a copy of your tune and we can see what is going on. Also tell us what strategy you are using.

[ironmanisanemic]

I want to say (without being at my computer) that sarchg is for one cylinder, but most good defs will have a z_sarchg that displays the true engine displacement. Now it's also possible that the Fox def has sarchg displayed as the whole engine displacement instead of for one cylinder.

He stated that he has a 331 and the tuner had sarchg set to 41.02939. If you multiply that by 8 cylinders you get 320.23512. Close enough considering you may not be able to store the true value due to the way the hex values work out.

[Paulie]

In BE 2012 GUFB strategy
Also see here: http://www.efidynotuning.com/a9l2.htm

[ironmanisanemic]

Like i said the xls GUFx strats more than likely display this as the full engine displacement. Honestly this is subjective to the DEF writer as you can see from the screen shots i have posted. Sailorbob looks like he has SARCHG in LBSx10^5 per CYL, but he also has it displayed further down as Z_ENG_VOL that is in the full engine displacement in CID, where core tuning displays it as cid per cyl. So its really up to the DEF author. But without knowing what strategy and what def he is using we can argue this point all day.

[dmills4229]

Well, it seems like my tuner is definitely doing things his own way then. He infamous as a tuner in the St. Louis area, and has tuned hundreds of mustangs with all manor of engines and power adders. I am beginning to suspect that he is at an advanced tuning level and just knows how to scale things and use values in places that makes sense to him. It is just making it very hard for me to follow it when it doesn't match up with the "How Tos" and FAQs.

As for posting my tune, I have noticed some weird things in BE which is causing me not to trust what I am seeing. My tuner did not give me the .bin file, but instead told me to load the A9L.bin file, and then apply a template which he gave me. In more than one case when I did this, values do not show up in BE unless I use the compare function to another .bin file. For instance, Spark WOT vs RPM. This function wasn't showing up at all and had me confused why timing was locked to 16 degrees when viewing the datalog file he gave me. Then one day I decided to use the compare function against another .bin file. All of a sudden Spark WOT vs RPM shows up and there it is locked at 16 degrees.

However, I have just purchased the Jaybird reader/burner so I will be able to read the tune straight from the chip so I know for sure what it is.

If I am missing something with the use of the whole template thing please let me know and I will post a copy of the tune up. If I post it up now before my Jaybird shows up I'm not sure how accurate it will be using the whole template thing.

I am using the GUFB strategy -- 1991 A9L mustang. The A9L.bin SARCHG value for Engine Displacement is 301.xxx

[ironmanisanemic]

Go ahead and post up the template he gave you and we can see what its doing to your bin. Are you sure he used gufb?

Also if you dont mind me asking, who was it that did your tune in St Louis?

[Paulie]

As for posting my tune, I have noticed some weird things in BE which is causing me not to trust what I am seeing. My tuner did not give me the .bin file, but instead told me to load the A9L.bin file, and then apply a template which he gave me. In more than one case when I did this, values do not show up in BE unless I use the compare function to another .bin file. For instance, Spark WOT vs RPM. This function wasn't showing up at all and had me confused why timing was locked to 16 degrees when viewing the datalog file he gave me. Then one day I decided to use the compare function against another .bin file. All of a sudden Spark WOT vs RPM shows up and there it is locked at 16 degrees.



I am using the GUFB strategy -- 1991 A9L mustang. The A9L.bin SARCHG value for Engine Displacement is 301.xxx

It is possible he has the spark WOT vs rpm function disabled and is only using the sealevel spark table. That would explain why that function wasn't showing up. Go ahead and post up a copy of your tune.

[dmills4229]

OK here it is. I opened A9L.bin as the calibration, and then applied the template. Then I saved that as the attached .bin file.

Crazy thing is the car won't even start with this tune. So that adds another doubt factor into this whole use the template thing.

I feel lots of uncertainty until I can read the file from the chip with the Jaybird.

[ironmanisanemic]

Would you be able to post up just the template?

[Paulie]

Did your tuner send you the chip with the tune already on it?

[dmills4229]

Did your tuner send you the chip with the tune already on it?

He tuned the vehicle with QH, then burned to a J3 chip.

I told him I was purchasing a QH and would like to have the tune file so I could play with it. He told me he wasn't sure how to do that, but then said he could figure something out (not sure if he was afraid of me sharing proprietary tuning info or what).

That was how I ended up with the template, but now I'm not so sure how equal it is to the tune on the chip.

[ironmanisanemic]

I'm thinking he is using core tunings database for your tune. It's not so easy to share a tune unless you also have access to the database instead of the free xls. The database tunes are encrypted so you can't reverse engineer them. I have a feeling that's why your tune is going all crazy because how core tuning has their gufb strategy setup differently than the xls. That's why I am asking for the template to see if things line up differently since i have access to the full database.

[dmills4229]

Awww crap. He did say something about it being encrypted.

Does that mean I won't be able to read the tune from the chip.

Crap!!!

[dmills4229]

I didn't want to share it, because he asked me not to, but I need to be able to modify the tune.

It has a .bet file extension...

[ironmanisanemic]

You will. It's the only loophole i am aware of with the encrypted tunes. Once you read out the tune from the chip with the Jaybird you should be able to use the xls def from that point on.

[dmills4229]

You will. It's the only loophole i am aware of with the encrypted tunes. Once you read out the tune from the chip with the Jaybird you should be able to use the xls def from that point on.

Praise the Lord, lol.

[ironmanisanemic]

If you want you can shoot me a pm i can try and transcribe the changes your tuner made and convert it to a standard bin file. I promise not to use it or share it with anyone.

[dmills4229]

Man I would appreciate that. I just stepped away but when I get back home I will PM you.

[ironmanisanemic]

Sent you an email.

[dmills4229]

A big, big thank you to ironmanisanemic!!!

He has produced a .bin file for me from the encrypted template that has cleared all the mysteries up.

Now I can continue my education based off the actual tune.

[decipha]

just a little FYI, you should never use any tuner that doesnt give you full access to the tune, if they dont want you sharing chances are they are trying to hide something

[dmills4229]

I'm getting that feeling and was advised the same by ironmanisanemic. Thanks.

[ironmanisanemic]

just a little FYI, you should never use any tuner that doesnt give you full access to the tune, if they dont want you sharing chances are they are trying to hide something

There are times when even if the tuner wanted to share his tune he can't because of the software and hardware restrictions. And even if their is a way to get a unencrypted tune there may be no def to read it with that is public domain. But unless it's a super in depth tune and the tuner wants to protect their hard work there should be no real reason to hide a tune. Even if a tune is that in depth that it warrants not being shared, the tuner should still show you his work and try to explain it as best as he can. But that's just my opinion.

[decipha]

any advanced tuner will have access to the bin regardless especially on these older boxes, much less the fox ecu of all

[ironmanisanemic]

i agree with the older boxes, but once you get into the newer boxes (05+) its not that easy. But the bin aside, even if you get it from the tuner its not like you will be able to do much with it as the customer. Its not like there is open defs for all different strategies. If there is then i havent found them yet. If you can find me ones for any of the newer gen ecus please let me know.