EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

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Cruisin428
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EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by Cruisin428 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:29 pm

Overview of my situation:
I inherited this SB Ford with the A9P and Moates F3 chip. It pops and sputters when under power - It seems to run better at WOT (It just hit me at WOT it goes open loop so this points to the tune being bad??) Although I can only manage WOT for a second or two.
My problem is I drove the car and it ran OK, then was parked for 4 months, then delivered to me, I don't know what EEC it had? Maybe the same or a different one? When I received it, it ran bad from coming off the truck, so I am starting from scratch with no baseline of it ran fine but now I am trying for more power or I'm changing something so need to change the tune.
Also I found the EEC had the three bad caps in it. All three had legs that were "open". I changed the caps and checked the traces (all good) and tried running the car, but it has the same popping and sputtering, although it feels different. Still does not run well enough to try to drive it!

What I am trying to figure out:
I pulled the bin off the F3 - and now I am trying to evaluate the tune and
1 Find out how far off the original tune is
2 get a tune for the engine that will get it to a baseline so it will run
3 after checking the tune, make sure all components are working correctly. (MAF, MSD, O2, fuel)

Things I have done up to this point:
Checked timing
checked compression - All within 5 psi of 145
changed plugs
checked and set TPS - Setting the TPS at 1.11 (about as far it would go) or higher seemed to make it run better
Tried to check the MAF (with DVOM) - 90mm ford lightning
checked fuel pressure - about 45 PSI
checked the O2 sensors (with AVOM) - I think they are bad (slow to respond or stuck on one voltage) they are on the list to replace after I check the tune - although it does not run any better when in open loop when it is cold

Hardware on the car:
347 I assume
AFR 205 race heads
cam is ???
90mm Ford MAF
Siemens Deca 60 # injectors
MSD 6AL and pro billet distributor
Vortech V3 blower - currently with drive belt removed.
Stick Shift
No smog, EGR, or other junk

Question:
If anyone would look over the bin and point out any problems or any thing that is right for that matter I would greatly appreciate it.
I really don't want to use this engine as a tuning learning tool and burn it up!!!!
one thing I notice the bin has 331 CI listed!

If I feel confident that this setup will work I am going to order a QH to data log it (I got the BURN2 to pull the bin). If not, the only other option I know of is to get a MS and start from square one with it!
Thanks to all of you for looking!!
Attachments
F3-IMG_2655cs.jpg
F3-IMG_2655cs.jpg (55.41 KiB) Viewed 469 times
EECIV-IMG_2658cs.jpg
EECIV-IMG_2658cs.jpg (94.74 KiB) Viewed 469 times
f3-03200-03ffff .bin
(56 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
347 AFR 205cc Race Heads cam?? 90mm Ford MAF siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD Dist & 6AL Vortech V-3 Headers to side pipes- Stick shift
No A/C, EGR or Smog at all

motorhead1991
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Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by motorhead1991 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:51 pm

If all you do is Fords, I'd recommend a Jaybird and a QH. Hell, maybe even upgrade to the F3v2
1990 Ford Ranger FLH2 conversion. Ford forged/dished pistons, Total Seal file-fit rings, Clevite rod and main bearings, Clevite cam bearings, IHI turbo, Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors, Ford slot MAF in custom 3" housing. Moates Quarterhorse with Binary Editor, using the PAAD6 database.

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85GT
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Location: NYC

Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by 85GT » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:00 am

Since you already have a Burn 2 and adapter to read the F3, there is nothing to gain getting a jaybird. Get the QH so you can start logging.
Did the bin you pulled match a A9P strategy?
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

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skunk
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Location: Newmarket, ON

Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by skunk » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:20 pm

It looks like the bin is a FTOL GUFB A9L tune. There were too many errors using the GUF1 A9P strategy but none with the GUFB. I here you can do this with a Quarterhorse but no idea with the chip. There does however seem to be a lot of undefined differences and I suspect the tune was built using TunerPro and an A9L2 base bin.

Here is a list of the defined differences as compared to a stock A9L read
Compare.CSV
(33.38 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
asterisks in the functions and tables indicate no change.

Just to rule out incompatibility, I would load an A9P bin with the basic changes to see if it behaves any better.
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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Cruisin428
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Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by Cruisin428 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:20 pm

First, I can not thank everyone enough for the reply's. Working on cars is fairly simple and working on computers is fairly simple. But so far, my ability to work on car computers (tune) is very lacking.

Here is the stock A9P bin off the EEC. I did not think it would be helpful, so I did not add it the first time.

Skunk,

Thanks for the evaluation, I need to read up on the different strategies, and I was thinking using the A9P bin, adjusting for the major changes on the motor might be a starting point.

I have not received my QH yet, so not able to data log.
Attachments
A9P.bin
(56 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
347 AFR 205cc Race Heads cam?? 90mm Ford MAF siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD Dist & 6AL Vortech V-3 Headers to side pipes- Stick shift
No A/C, EGR or Smog at all

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Cruisin428
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Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by Cruisin428 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:15 pm

OK, after having a nasty summer, I finally got some time and the QH and laptop and EEC to get along!!!

At this point the car will not idle, I pump the gas to keep it from dying, it revs up and tries to die again. smells RICH, like burn your eyes RICH!

I only ran the car a few seconds to get a starting log. After checking it out, I will try running it longer.

I ran the car on this BIN, and got this log file.

How long does it take for the HEGOS values to come up? I did not run it long enough to bring them up to full temp.

Also, I noticed this BIN was forcing OL !

The MAF and VMAF may be lower than they should be! Maybe my MAF is bad???

If anybody notices bad values in the LOG, Please mention it.

On the dashboard, the AFR gauge never moves from 0, is there no AFR data coming from the EEC-iv?
Attachments
f3-03200-03ffff .bin
(56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Unsaved 2018_Oct_14_15-46-47.csv
(290.34 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
347 AFR 205cc Race Heads cam?? 90mm Ford MAF siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD Dist & 6AL Vortech V-3 Headers to side pipes- Stick shift
No A/C, EGR or Smog at all

User avatar
Cruisin428
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Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by Cruisin428 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:30 pm

I changed the BIN to allow closed loop, although, I did not run the car long enough to get to that point.

I adjusted the injector slopes, and the MAF curve to what the base setting should be.

The MAF in the log came up but VMAF still looks flat?

I think HEGO1 may be slow to respond. Although it was not in CL yet.

Again, if you see any issues with the LOG, please respond. Thank you.

Now I need to go back and read up on what values I should be getting!

Thank you again.
Attachments
a9p-my adj.BIN
(56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
a9p-my adj 2018_Oct_14_17-29-41.csv
(210.07 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
347 AFR 205cc Race Heads cam?? 90mm Ford MAF siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD Dist & 6AL Vortech V-3 Headers to side pipes- Stick shift
No A/C, EGR or Smog at all

thequietman45
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Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:53 am

Re: EECIV and F3 evaluate tune on chip

Post by thequietman45 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:11 am

I'm having similar problems and what I found was i had loaded a bad program on my QH. I have a 427w and when it started it was "burn your eyes" rich as well and it would barely rev over a grand.

I unplugged the QH and it fired up and ran sorta. Once I got help from some folks, I reinstalled QH with a good AHACB and WAY1 bin. It now idles better but I haven't tuned the MAF curve and injectors yet...
20 year project - 1995 Bronco 427W, GT-40 heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, 1.6 rockers, edelbrock 3881 with 61mm TB, 36# Bosch injectors. QH and BE.

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