How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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Stang95
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How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by Stang95 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:26 am

I haven't tried Binary Editor yet but i have looked at TunerPro and I don't really like it. Nothing there is self explanatory. I can't just highlight a cell and change a number at a certain RPM. Is Binary Editor better?
Anyways.. How does one change the ignition timing ?

Thank you in advance. I don't like wasting money on poorly written software. It's good to the professionals but not beginner-friendly.

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cgrey8
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by cgrey8 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:06 am

TunerPro and BE are similar. Personally, I prefer BE. But that's only because I've been using it for so many years and I understand why it works the way it does. Much of the limitations in how data is presented is because the original Ford tunes were never intended to be intuitive and easy to work with to the average person. Ford only intended Ford engineers to ever deal with the tunes. And even they didn't deal with the tunes the way we do. I believe they modified the code directly...or at the very least they modified template files that were referenced during the assembly process of the tunes.

A big part of whether things are more intuitive or not has to do with naming and how detailed the description notes are in the definition file you have displayed in either TunerPro or BE. And since the writers of TunerPro and BE are often NOT the developers of the definition files, they have little control over the text that's displayed OR the accuracy of the numerical conversions.

I could be wrong here, but based on your comments, DIY tuning may not be what you are looking for. You might be better served just letting someone else tune your car for you if you don't have the desire to spend time and learn the tools. DIY tuning should not be thought of as a way to save money as compared to taking it to a professional tuner. My guess is most people, if they are being honest, will tell you if they put a dollar figure on both hardware/software investment AND their time spent learning how to DIY tune, they did NOT save money as compared to taking it to a tuning shop.

That said, there are some hand-held tuning solutions that actually do a passable job of getting close to this. But what they expose to be tweaked and their diagnostic capacity are limited. As a result, their success is hit-n-miss.

However if you are a natural born tinkerer and don't mind spending HOURS exploring the software, researching your EEC's strategy, asking questions, and learning your vehicle's particular idiosyncrasies, then you'll find DIY tuning to be an interesting hobby. The ability to do datalogging, alone, turns the EEC from a black box into a diagnostic treasure trove of information. Add to that the ability to make changes in the tune give you unparalleled control.

However to the newbie, the amount of information can be more overwhelming than liberating. Thus simply possessing the tools isn't going to get the vehicle tuned. You'll have to make a significant investment of time AND some money into the effort. It's like signing up to go to the gym. Just because you have the membership doesn't mean you are getting healthier. You gotta be willing to put in the time.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Stang95
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by Stang95 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:55 am

Well i just got an email back from American Muscle about the SCT/Bama tuner and i was told they do not tune for turbo applications. Bummer. Oh well. Guess i'll be going back to home-school after all. I have messaged my somewhat-local dyno place. Maybe they can help speed up the process as long as it doesnt cost $100/hour for too many hours. I'm not a fan of spending big bucks like that.

As for being a tinkerer , there is no turbo kit specifically for my car so i had to build my own. Took me over 10 hours just to get one of the manifolds cut and welded ,aligned and angled right. The other manifold wasnt so difficult. I still need to route the EGR tube back to the exhaust to make it emissions-friendly.

Right now i have the MAF unplugged and o2 sensors removed so i know for sure it has plenty of fuel for at least 6 or 7 psi or 8, easy. It had my eyes burning 'cause it was running so rich the other day while on the back roads. Now i need to get a data logger to see where to change the fuel output on the low-end and change timing.

This seems like it will be fun. If only i could just type in a question and get an answer on a search engine.

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skunk
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by skunk » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:43 am

Stang95 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:55 am
If only i could just type in a question and get an answer on a search engine.
Based on your post above......sounds like your keyboard skills haven't helped you or you are relying to heavily on what you find. There is a huge abundance of bad information out there. You have to think about what you find and filter all garbage out.

Unplugging the MAF and HEGOs is bad idea ....more so with boost. Of course you are rich....your running in limp mode which is meant to get you off the road and into a shop.

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

Stang95
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by Stang95 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:12 am

I cant tell. These 4.56 gears give me plenty of power to still spin 1st 2nd and chirp third. Can peel third if i rev in neutral first.
Guess i'll need a wideband at the least.

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EDS50
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by EDS50 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:52 am

What exactly are you working with vehicle/engine/ecm wise? If it took you ten years just to cut and weld a manifold for a non specific application; you may not be suited for any of this. No disrespect intended. In the mean time you can download Binary Editor for free and look through all of it to see if this is really your cup of tea to learn or not.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

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skunk
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by skunk » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:14 pm

Stang95 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:12 am
I cant tell. These 4.56 gears give me plenty of power to still spin 1st 2nd and chirp third. Can peel third if i rev in neutral first.
Guess i'll need a wideband at the least.
This is exactly how you tell your tune is good!!! You are one of the lucky ones who get that perfect turn key finished product without even trying. Great job man! I'm envious.

Anyway.....that's awesome, enjoy!!!

John
1987 Turbocoupe.
A3M1/A9L, BE/EA, Tweecer RT.
306,Single Turbo, Ported E7's, Ported Stock Intake, 42lb Matched Green Tops, PMAS 3" Blow-Thru Protube (42# supercharger calibrated),T5z, 3.73 gears
..... Nothin Fancy.......Just something to keep me from the honey-do list.........

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EDS50
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by EDS50 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:17 pm

Post a picture of your car, twin turbo must be awesome.
1992 LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 332, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9L, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView

Stevenmverrill
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Re: How do i tune the Ignition Timing ?

Post by Stevenmverrill » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:01 pm

Disclaimer: I am new to this. I have blown 2 head gaskets. I have a turbo 95 mustang (cbaza) it's currently running/driving great and has made it down the 1/4 in 11.7 so far. It's a stock motor with a diy. hack turbo.

The op reads to me like my self 4 months ago.

I am using tuner pro and 1/4 horse.

I am not computer Savvy in the least bit. It will take other folks replies to steer you in the direction of the correct reading to get you going. It took me a few days reading step by step instructions and having a computer savvy person accompany me to help with things like downloads.

Once you have the program of your choosing, and the files you need loaded in to it(bin,adx,something else), it's all down hill from there. Then you spend a few days learning how the program work like when you get a now job or a new phone. You just need to mess with it and get in the mind of the Creator to learn how to navigate.

In my bin (tune) there are 3 tables for timing that give you a two dimensional table(load and rpm) to enter values of your choosing. This is most of it but there are what seam like 1 million other things that can adjust the given values but for the most part you don't need to play with that stuff much other than in my case making a little safety area for high intake temperatures.

Anyway the question of your original post is a rather stupid one for lack of better terms and will not get you far with the people here who's help you really need. I made the same mistake of asking stupid questions too soon here. Keep searching and keep reading every question you could ever think of, even expand Beyond this form and try a full-blown Google search. I'm confident all the information is in here the search function just isn't always great.

I believe you are a similar strategy to mine because 95 is in your name.. that means you have something called infrared load. Unplugging the maf. and running on this is the absolute quickest way possible to blow your motor. Without the maf. the computer has no way of knowing you have a turbo, and it uses a predetermined table based on guesses from a naturally aspirated motor. That said it's apparent the moment you hit boost you will go extremely lean! It is merely using your throttle position and RPM to make a guess at how much fuel to give.

Read up read up read up

my 2/100 on absolute Necessities for you:

Hardware;
. Extended range MAF sensor
. Upgraded fuel pump
. Upgraded fuel injectors
. Wide-band oxygen sensor
. Make absolutely sure you have full control of boost and wastegate. Nothing is wrong with manual control just make sure it does what you want and does not have crazy spikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Software;
. Injector slopes
. Injector breakpoint
. Maf. Transfer
.cranking fuel
. Note Stock tune Fuel and timing values
. Rescale anything to do with fuel and timing for 200%.
. Populate stock values two corresponding load below 80%
. Populate above 80% with extremely safe boost numbers
. Start tuning

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