No Signal To Fuel Injectors

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neonbeef
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No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sat May 25, 2019 11:57 am

Hello All:

I am not getting a signal to my fuel injectors.

This is a new project using a AHACB strategy from Sailor Bob. The truck uses the Fiveology Racing Stage 2 (reman EEC IV PCM/76mm MAF/Overlay Harness). It uses an MSD 6A ignition box. I have not started the truck yet as I have had some issues with the fuel system. Speaking of, the fuel pump is on it's own circuit now (the pump, relay, and circuit breaker).

Also, there is no purge canister, HEGO, EGR (the exhaust is not on the truck) or thermactor pump. The last two will not be added ever as I do not live in CA.

Which scalars should I be checking into at this point?

I suspect the computer cannot see the distributor and therefore is not sending the signal. But, I may be wrong.

See below for more information.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

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cgrey8
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by cgrey8 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:10 pm

Datalog the crank attempt and determine what is and isn't happening. For instance,
  • do you detect RPMs when the engine is turning over?
  • Is there any indication that the engine is being cranked via flags?
  • Do you get any MAF values?
  • Are there any datalogged Injector Pulses being datalogged?
What knowing those questions will tell you is if you aren't getting a signal to the injectors or is the EEC not sending a signal to them?
And if the EEC is not actually attempting to fire them, why?
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:46 pm

Hello:

I attached the file of the datalog.

do you detect RPMs when the engine is turning over? Yes. TAG:N 6139.75/N_BYTE 336

Is there any indication that the engine is being cranked via flags? Yes (see attached file)

Do you get any MAF values? Yes. MAF 15791 KG per Hour/VMAF 11.943 volts

Are there any datalogged Injector Pulses being datalogged? Yes FUELPW1 234.802/FUELPW2 239.232

There are lots of flags.
WAY1 read 20190504 2019_Jun_05_12-52-28.csv
Datalog
(99.64 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

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cgrey8
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by cgrey8 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:57 pm

Ok, well it's clear that your datalog is filled with interesting values, but none of it usable other than to determine that what you think you are datalogging and what you are actually datalogging are not the same thing. VMAF values in the 11v range for a sensor that maxes at 5v???

Actually looking at the csv file confirms this.
LAMBSEs are values they absolutely shouldn't be.
KAMRFs are all over the place and again values they shouldn't be.
Inj PWs are not even close to being the same between banks.
But most importantly, the values don't change from the beginning to the end of the log further confirming for me that what we are seeing is just garbage values in memory being reported up to BE.

So before you can actually answer any of the questions, you need the datalog giving you "good" data. The fact that it isn't giving you good data is likely just another symptom of your problem.

Wrong definition file for your EEC? Bad tune value? Or possibly, no tunes actually downloaded to the QH?
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:43 pm

Thanks, cgrey8,

Between you, and Derek (i.e., sailorbob), I have a pretty good feel on this now.

It is a GIGO issue (Garbage-In-Garbage-Out).

The values, if they were in the correct range would likely not change much as I was only cranking for about 8 seconds, or so. Remember, it won't start because there's no signal reaching the injectors (ground signal). There is power to all injectors.

It is the correct EEC (WAY1) for the tune (AHACB). However, I need to check my J3 connections as well as the power and grounds at the 60 pin connector. If that isn't it, should I start with replacing the EEC? The EEC is from Fiveologyracing and looked very good. The J3 is new as well.

I will need to see how to import the file into a spreadsheet (i.e., CSV).

Thanks for your help, I will let you know the results after I clean the connections and check for power/ground and the 60 pin.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Hello:

I redid it. I opened the strategy from sailorbob (Derek) and then opened the standard WAY1 calibration file (which I have attached). Then, I uploaded, or wrote, it to the Quarterhorse.

This is my new datalog. It shows no readings from the MAF, or fuel injector pulse width.

LAMBSE at 14.64, so it is at a closed loop attempt (I'm guessing on this).

KAMRFs are steady at 194-195 range, which is really out of the range of possibility, as I understand it (am I correct it should be closer to 1.0 in a closed loop?). Essentially, the EEC is trying to add a ton of fuel, if I understand it correctly.

So, help, please.

Also, I am willing to pay if this looks like a big issue.
WAY1 1st Attempt 2019_Jun_08_16-44-12.csv
(46 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Attachments
WAY1 1st Attempt.BEB
(57.81 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

jsa
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by jsa » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:08 am

N=RPM, it is 0 in that log.

It won't inject while at zero rpm.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:32 am

I wonder if it has to do with the MSD 6A. Is it not seeing the PIP? It is sparking when it is supposed to.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Posts: 24
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:39 am

I am using purple and brown wires from the left side of the box. I wonder if I should use the white wire to hook up to the distributor plug. Maybe the EEC cannot see the signal.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

jsa
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by jsa » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:22 pm

Yeah, you need the eec to see pip.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:26 pm

Hello jsa,

Have you heard of this before?

I will call MSD tomorrow to see what their solution is, or I'd they think it's possible. I believe I am on the right path.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

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Paulie
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by Paulie » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:09 am

neonbeef wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:39 am
I am using purple and brown wires from the left side of the box. I wonder if I should use the white wire to hook up to the distributor plug. Maybe the EEC cannot see the signal.
What wires do you have the MSD connected to?
1990 Mustang 5.0, HCI, Vortech S-trim, FRPP 42# inj., PMAS MH95, A9L, Moates Quarterhorse, BE/EA, Innovate LC-1.

jsa
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by jsa » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:32 pm

neonbeef wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:26 pm
Hello jsa,

Have you heard of this before?

I will call MSD tomorrow to see what their solution is, or I'd they think it's possible. I believe I am on the right path.
I know nothing about msd and eec. I have long forgotten what I knew of msd and points.

I think there is ample scope for msd and eec integration to fail.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:16 pm

Hello All:

Just wanted to update everyone.

So, not seeing the PIP was a distributor issue. I was using an MSD 8578, which will not work. So, I went back to the original distributor. Somehow, the distributor was 180 degrees off. The only thing I can think of is that sometime after the dyno test, someone over there, for some reason, took it out and put it in wrong. Very weird.

There's no way the QH could do this, right.

So, with the original distributor, it would send fire out of the exhaust headers, but it didn't feel like all cylinders were firing, and there was no real power to it. So, I moved the plug wires over two places, and it was a little better. I ended up moving them over a total of four places, hence the 180 degrees off. Now it runs, at least. But, I have a couple of coolant leaks (electric waterpump outlets need to be sealed as well as the thermostat housing. It also looks like there is some coolant coming out between the head and block on the rear driver side. I also have some vacuum leaks to take care of.

I won't be able to work on it until Sunday. We (my son and I) are going to take the valve cover off and check the torque on the head stud bolts, and see what we see. If that's not it, we'll have to take off the head and replace the head gasket.

If it's something major, we'll just put in the spare engine (dead serious).

I'll keep you apprised.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:54 pm

Hello All:

Another update. My son and I had a chance to work on it today. The leak turned out to be coming from the most rearward, driver's side, intake manifold bolt. It's a Edelbrock 3881 5.8L truck intake.

First, however, we took off the intake (upper and lower) and re torqued the bolts. But the leak was worse after we did that. Disappointed. We really checked over the entire assembly and the head.

We checked other things, such as the torque on the cylinder head studs. It's hard to see way back there, but he felt around the back and that is where it was leaking from. We put some sealant on the thread and it must have sealed the leak.

But, that is all we had time for today.

So, this Sunday we can concentrate on adding antifreeze and changing the oil (7 quart pan). And, then get it to the muffler/transmission shop for a true dual exhaust. We have the mufflers and long tube tuned headers. We have lightening headers on it now, but they will be exchanged.

Then we will focus on tuning.

Stay tuned for more posts, and requests for help. When I get to the other computer tomorrow, I will try to post some pictures.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:40 pm

Good Afternoon All:

So, true dual exhaust is on. The HEGO is in the driver's side long tube exhaust manifold as there is no crossover.

Going to dial in the timing today. We did it last week, after working on the interior. However, I forgot to take out the timing spout to set it at 10 degrees. But, I was able to keep it idling, which is a big step forward. So, for anyone who is interested, I am attaching the datalog. I'll attach a new one today after I get the timing set.
WAY1 RUN Test 20190724 2019_Aug_03_15-45-20.csv
(1.13 MiB) Downloaded 11 times
Best regards,
Wayne
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:52 am

It is now timed correctly at 10 degrees without the spout.

However, there has been a very interesting development; the engine runs great as long as the MAF isn't plugged in. It's a four wire. I will try to test it today. But, even if it tests fine, I may replace it. And, yes, it is a new one (it came with the wire harness overlay, computer,and fuel injectors). The part number is F5UF-12B579-AA 20160328009.
Last edited by neonbeef on Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:23 pm

Alright. It still runs good without the MAF. I tested it; there are four wires. "A" is supply, which reads 12 volts. "B" is the normal ground, which reads 12 volts. "C" is the ECM ground, which also reads 12 volts. "D" is the signal from the MAF. When it is plugged in (through the data logger), I can see the voltage change from about 1.078 volts at 800 rpm to 1.80 volts at 2,000 rpm. I didn't use my volt meter for this. So it seems like it is working. I do know from personal experience that the numbers can read correctly, but that the MAF is still bad, somehow. I have changed them out in the past and it fixes the problem.

I am now attaching the datalog with the MAF not plugged in. Here again, this is when it seems to run the best.
WAY 1 20190810 2019_Aug_11_12-33-48.csv
(2.19 MiB) Downloaded 9 times
Another issue, most likely mechanical, is that the tranny (E4OD) will not engage. I can see it shift when I am datalogging from 7 (Park) down to 2 (2nd), but it will not read 1 (1st gear). It will read 2 - 7 as I shift through the gears, but not one. Weird. It hasn't been used as it is a rebuilt tranny (toughened). The fluid wasn't registering on the dip stick. Then, I added a quart and a half and now it is way above the hatch marks. No drain plug on it, either.

So, please let me know if any of you have any ideas.

Best regards,
Wayne
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

neonbeef
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Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by neonbeef » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:27 pm

Also, is this something I need to be concerned with (diode protection for the E4OD)? I did have it rebuilt and toughened and built for a 1995 (the tranny pack on the transmission).

Re: Best strategy/calibration for Way1 eec

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21021&p=119499&hili ... 76#p119499

Post by Marchanic » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:20 am
Contact Pops racing for his VEX1 strategy or Sailorbob for his AHACB. Those will both work for the WAY1. Fyi, if you are running an E4OD that is pre 95, you should use the HOG0 eec. It has transmission protection diodes in the correct place. The VEX1 and AHACB will work for that one as well.
Be well, and have a great day!
Wayne

1992 Ford F150 Std Cab/Flareside/4X4/Toughened E4OD

393 Stroker/Eddie 5.8 EFI Intake and Heads/Fiveology Racing 76mm MAF & WAY1/Comp Cams XE 274/Eagle Rotating Assembly Kit/Green Giant Injectors/MSD Plugs, Wires, Distributor, 6AL Spark Box/9.9:1 compression

AHACB Strategy/Moates QH/BE - Core Tuning

jsa
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Re: No Signal To Fuel Injectors

Post by jsa » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:21 pm

neonbeef wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:23 pm
I tested it; there are four wires. "A" is supply, which reads 12 volts. "B" is the normal ground, which reads 12 volts. "C" is the ECM ground, which also reads 12 volts.

So, please let me know if any of you have any ideas.

Best regards,
Wayne
12V on the ground pins, means you have wiring faults to fix.

Using a voltmeter to measure from the MAF ground pins to the chassis should be 0V or within a whisker.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
ForDiag

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