Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

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redtopracer
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Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm

So I purchased a quarter horse for my 98 mustang gt with the intent of tuning it with deciphas craj0 def file. Do my homework get a base bin for a gt manual craj0 and ran into an immediate issue lol.



Base tune runs the car, even drives it around town pretty decently.
But the second OL WOT is triggered, the damn thing throws INSANE spark advance at it. I'm kind of surprised I didn't break anything honestly.



Doing a PT rpm sweep for logging, fully up to temp, HEGO's are reporting about right. 30-40% throttle, 60ish% peak eng load. Things look good. Spark looks good 19-21deg advance. No pinging, knocking, yeah this tuning thing ain't to hard, I got this. 3600rpm, 19.75deg of advance on the rich side. 3900rpm hits and fuel program switch's from closed to open loop. TP-REL is 36%, eng load is 66%, spark advance is 42.5°!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Engine of course hits a wall, I throttle off and clutch in.

So that's where all my progress has stalled at.



Ive gone over the spark tables, the spark multipliers, and spark adders and subtractors available in the def I have. No reason at all for it to run this spark that I can tell. I have thought about just disabling open loop WOT. But smarter men than me have advised against it lol.



I'm wrangling with the idea of trying to expand the def file but its way past my skill set.



Anybody got any other def files that won't suicide my car?

motorhead1991
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by motorhead1991 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:04 pm

I would contact Mike directly. I know on my 90 there is a function specifically for WOT spark so keep an eye out for that too.

The other option is Binary Editor and a PopsRacing strategy (and that gets expensive fast).
1990 Ford Ranger FLH2 conversion. Ford forged/dished pistons, Total Seal file-fit rings, Clevite rod and main bearings, Clevite cam bearings, IHI turbo, Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors, Ford slot MAF in custom 3" housing. Moates Quarterhorse with Binary Editor, using the PAAD6 database.

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redtopracer
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:51 pm

Yeah, I've reached out to him, that seems to be the case here as well, however the parameter isnt defined in the def file and I cant access it.

Mike said he would take a look into it when he gets a chance, but he seems like a pretty busy guy with a lot to do. So I figured Id take to the ole series of tubes and see where it took me lol.



I was really trying to avoid paying for a tune every time I changed something when I purchased the quarterhorse. But I guess I underestimated the amount of further work needing to be done to get it usable.



Theres a aol2 craj xdf on tuner pro from lol 2006. So I know there are some out there. Was just hoping someone had something useable on here.


Also managed to find a CRAI18 master strat file on some explorer forum. Seems to have everything needed to write a def if I wanted to spend a lifetime reading through it lol.



Guess ill go back to reading mikes decompiler write up lol.

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cgrey8
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:12 am

I'm wondering if there's a function somewhere that is wrongfully defined. The first column of functions must always include the absolute min and absolute max value that can exist as the two extreme cell values. Then you get to use the cells in between for tuning. If one of the functions has an upper or lower limit cell in the 1st column modified, this could send the processor "off into the weeds" looking for data that's not actually part of the function (or table if it's a scaling function). At that point, the results are effectively non-deterministic or at the very least not intended. It's work looking over just to make sure something wasn't accidentally fat-fingered in on the upper and lower most cells of each of your functions.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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redtopracer
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:06 am

I have multiple times at this point unfortunately.


Just a waiting and studying game at this point.



Was looking into BE but I'm afraid of purchasing something that needs further development to be functioning at this point.


In all honesty, its to the point if I could sell my QH and buy an SCT advantage setup I might just. I'd have to deal with SCT, but at least I'd have a functioning product.

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cgrey8
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by cgrey8 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:37 am

At one point, I thought BE would let you open encrypted definitions and tunes in a view-only mode so you could confirm all the things you want are present in a def before you bought it. If that's there, then maybe you could open your tune in a pay-for def like Adam's (POPSRACING) CRAJ0. I don't recall if Sailorbob has CRAJ0. However if he does, I'm sure his are quite affordable and well worth the price to at least try it out just to keep from going to SCT.

Maybe that got taken away at some point. Since I don't use cry-defs, I couldn't say.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, 1.6RRs, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, Slot Style MAF, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', 8.8" rear w/3.27s, Powertrax Locker, Innovate LC-1, GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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motorhead1991
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by motorhead1991 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:57 pm

I would definitely not go with this ET. Unless you have a live wire, can't do any live tuning which is real pain in the butt considering it takes like 10 minutes to flash an ECU...

I don't know the newer stuff quite well, or I would look into it myself.
1990 Ford Ranger FLH2 conversion. Ford forged/dished pistons, Total Seal file-fit rings, Clevite rod and main bearings, Clevite cam bearings, IHI turbo, Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors, Ford slot MAF in custom 3" housing. Moates Quarterhorse with Binary Editor, using the PAAD6 database.

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jsa
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by jsa » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:35 pm

redtopracer wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:22 pm
spark advance is 42.5°!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ford strategies normally calculate spark angle using a number of lookups, then select the lowest of the calculated angles. Surprising that 42.5° is the lowest, which points to some sort of corruption.

Can you log sparksource?
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
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jsa
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by jsa » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:16 pm

Looking at 12.1.19 of CRAI8, there is no WOT spark as such. Do you have mbt and borderline spark in your def?

Looking at 12.1.23, does the rate at which you push the throttle to WOT make a difference?
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
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redtopracer
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:23 pm

I can actually. Not sure i want to, to be honest.
I would really like to not toss an engine chasing spark issues. It actually doubled the spark up looking at the obd2 log i have. went from 21deg to 42deg immediately at the switch from closed loop to OL WOT. Looking at the table the absolute maximum it could have ran was 29deg, it should have been about 23-25degs though.
How clean do the J3 fingers have to be? I brillo padded mine till you could see the copper over 90% of the fingers.
Theres also another indicator here. Mikes CRAJ0 also throws an immediate DTC with ignition on. Throws a MIL when started. p1445 evap valve flow too high. The real kicker is that the EVAP system checks out per the FSM. Which makes me wonder if anyone at all has ever ran this bin successfully on a CRAI8 GUK2 pcm? Or if its just assumed to run on it.

redtopracer
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:27 pm

yes both borderline and MBT are in there. I havent actually gone WOT on it yet. Theres a tp-rel WOT setting and tp-ol wot setting and there both set to 555 adcounts stock. I asked mike if disabling OL WOT would be a good idea and he advised against it.

jsa
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by jsa » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:22 pm

No point killing the donk. What happens if you creep up on the OL switchpoint with minimal throttle change?

You are talking about Mike and other catchcodes. Mikes CRAJ0 might not be Ford CRAJ0. What exactly is the combination of EEC hardware and software?

J3 just needs the plastic coat cleaned off. No need to strip the plating off the copper.

Matching hardware codes will allow interchange of bins.
Cheers

John

95 Escort RS Cosworth - GHAJ0 / ANTI on a COSY box code
Moates QH & BE
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redtopracer
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Re: Tuner pro rt and craj0 bin

Post by redtopracer » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:48 am

It shows a catch code of GUK2 and hardware ml2-872 F6Zf-tc QH pulls a CRAI8-SG bin off it. Its a 98 mustang gt.


The bin specifically is exactly for a 98 gt 5spd and list as such from mike himself. You can't modify a lot of his scalars in the his def. So I can't really download his cobra bin and put in some of my inj info in it. But he says it runs all variants of his craj0 bins. The cobra and v6 variant all list the bin file but mine just says 98 gt 5spd.



That's the thing, I was no where near the tp switch for OL wot.


The files list as rpmxtp adcounts and list 3900rpm and 0 rpm as the only switch point and only scale besides min and max. I tripped from CL to OL WOT at exactly 3900rpms. My max tp positions through the whole thing was 410 adcounts.


Now on the way back on the run I tripped OL WOT by hitting the adcount threshold at 3k exactly. Spark once again doubled in advance exactly.


Gimme a sec and I'll find the bin and def on my craptop and upload it. I'll even offer to upload the data log too but its not clean and short and is also a screen capture off a cell through BT obd2 if anyone is willing to look through it.

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