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decipha
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Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by decipha » Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:45 pm

As everyone knows Moates closed their doors due to the xilinx chip shortage and their high price increases.

In any case I've heard of some serious price gouging going on for moates gear since they closed their doors with QH's selling upwards of $500 and J3 chips over $200 which is just absurd.

We have to do something to keep the DIY community going so this is my proposal. I'm always coming in to moates stuff one way or another and I've got enough gear that I can prevent these outrageous prices and still have plenty supply to go around. My intent is by offering equipment at these publicly posted prices others can't overcharge at their pleasure.

I have quite a bit of quarterhorses, J3 chips and jaybird pro's available if anyone needs them. If you need any honda or gm gear (ostrich) let me know and I might be able to get a few from someone who specializes in just those. In any case for pricing;

QH is $350 each. That's what they would cost if available. Each is tested and verified with the latest and greatest firmware. Comes complete with battery and cable.

J3 chip's are $100 each. J3 chips are 8 position mini's. All brand new in bag. They say deltaforce on them but they are just rebranded moates chips from the now defunct sniper.

Jaybird Pro is $85 each. Can write all 8 tune positions on F3v3 chips using f2e/f5 in tunerpro.

Obviously (for the less informed) all chips and QH's come blank so you will need to write them yourself.

$10.40 shipping for up to 4 quarterhorses or 15 chips (or 1 QH and 10 chips) in the continuous 48, hi and ak will be slightly more and international is usually $25 to most countries. Paypal only and you must send as family/friends only I will not accept payments. If you send as a payment it will be refunded excluding the paypal fees they take.

I'll try my best to ship twice a week but could potentially take up to 9 days to ship at times. Bare with me as I'm doing this as time permits.

I'm also going to offer an exchange service as well. If you have an old QH that's faulty or non functional or if you just want to exchange your old one for any reason send it to me and I'll offer a $150 credit on a replacement or I'll shoot you the funds if you just want to sell it.

Also it was asked specifically so I'm putting it here as well; If you have a damaged J3 chip the best I can do is offer a $25 credit on a new one if you want to swap it out.

Shoot me an email or PM if you need something.
Be sure to include your tele #, shipping address and any special instructions if necessary.

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cgrey8
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by cgrey8 » Wed Apr 03, 2024 2:36 pm

I understand Moates using the chip shortage as an opportunity to retire. But what I don't get is his unwillingness to sell the intellectual property/company to someone who is willing and capable of taking it over particularly now that the shortage is no longer a thing.

And if he didn't trust any one person to handle/manage it, he could've released all the hardware designs & FPGA/CPLD/Processor source/images as open source to the community then anybody willing to make batches of QHs could. Of course to do that people would need experience working with the processor and FPGA dev tools needed to "load" the firmware.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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decipha
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by decipha » Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pm

It wasn't really a choice or an opportunity, it was just the hand he was dealt. AFAIK Xilinx wanted a $250G deposit on chips with a 36 month lead time and NO GUARANTEE that they would be available at the end of the 36 months and NO REFUNDS. It was a crap deal he would have been stupid to take. Now his cost for making them has gone up $100 per unit which would make them unrealistic to sell. The whole purpose behind Moates is having affordable solutions for the DIY'er, that's been hit motto since inception. He hasn't told me directly but I get the feeling it doesn't sit right with Craig having to sell them for what he would have to sell them for.

No one has offered a reasonable amount for it ...for the right price

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cgrey8
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by cgrey8 » Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:34 am

decipha wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pmIt wasn't really a choice or an opportunity, it was just the hand he was dealt. AFAIK Xilinx wanted a $250G deposit on chips with a 36 month lead time and NO GUARANTEE that they would be available at the end of the 36 months and NO REFUNDS. It was a crap deal he would have been stupid to take...
I absolutely agree with that. When we were in the shortage, that was the reality for a LOT of companies (mine included). The FPGA we use (an Altera, now Intel) had to be out-right removed from our products for a time because the cost of getting them was not worth the price asked. It was a major disruption and scatter to R&D to make that part-deletion possible and still have a viable product. Fortunately for us, the functionality we were getting from the FPGA was a peripheral function, not a core function. For the QH, the FPGA is what makes it do what it does and there were no alternative technologies that could be adapted easily at the time.
decipha wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pm...Now his cost for making them has gone up $100 per unit which would make them unrealistic to sell...
That's less of an argument to me because everything has gone up in price. We all know that, we see and live that reality. And like it or hate it, that's the nature of market economics. I won't say too much more than that or it starts to get political, and that's not my point to push here in this post.
decipha wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pm...The whole purpose behind Moates is having affordable solutions for the DIY'er, that's been hit motto since inception...
I get that and respect it. However none of this was communicated to the community, at large. My guess is a lot of this is the 1st time many of us are hearing these details. I think he could've been more forth-coming to the community or maybe he was (e.g. an update on his website explaining all this) and I just didn't notice.
decipha wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pm...He hasn't told me directly but I get the feeling it doesn't sit right with Craig having to sell them for what he would have to sell them for...
Again, let the market decide what it is willing to bare. The only alternative out there is the TwEECer RT and it has sold for way more than the QH for years and offered less. So IMO, the price could go right up to the price of the TwEECer RT and it would still be the better choice particularly given how available most of the EEC-IV/V strats are today in BE.
decipha wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:35 pm...No one has offered a reasonable amount for it...for the right price
This gets to my point. Which is more important to him?
  • Making money off the products
  • Supplying the community with tools
As a supporter of Capitalism, I'll be the 1st to admit anybody that sells a service or product should make a profit. If they don't, the arrangement is simply not sustainable. Add to that, the amount of profit has to be enough of an incentive to be worth the time and sacrifice to meet the demand. That's up to him (and nobody else) to decide what that amount is.

However just sitting on his products (I mean the intellectual property, not physically made product) is neither making him profit nor helping the community in any way. In some ways, it's hurting the community or at least it will once all of the available QHs are consumed. It's his company & his choice, so I'm not about to arrogantly say what he should do. I'm not living in his shoes. I don't know all the dynamics of his situation, and I don't have to live with the consequences of the decisions.

But based on the info that I have, if it were me in this position and I didn't feel it was the right move for me to restart the company, I'd seriously consider open sourcing my products' intellectual property (hardware designs, BOMs, source code, compiled images, internal tech docs/procedures, etc)...in essence putting the baton out there for someone (or multiple someones) to pick up if they were so motivated. That doesn't mean someone will pick any of it up. But they absolutely can't right now. That was the point I was trying to make.

Now it can be argued that EEC-IV/V is getting so long in the tooth that there may simply not be enough demand for QHs and chips to justify continuing to make and support them. For all I know, the QHs that are out there now are enough to supply the waning demand. I haven't done that kind of market research to know. And so it is quite possible that even if he did release everything related to the QH, there would be no incentive for someone to do anything with it. I have to admit if I went into my V8 Ranger project today instead of when I did (2005), I most likely would NOT go the EEC-IV route. Aftermarket engine controllers with FAR more tuning features and more refined control algorithms than what the GUFx era EEC-IVs are capable of would be what I'd be researching.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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decipha
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by decipha » Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:39 pm

Those are some craig questions I cant answer them for him.

I doubt he has many concerns these days and is probably not concerned with supply nor money.

It would be foolish for him to open source all of his hard work. He started out just as everyone else did and spent thousands of hours of his own time and money to develop what he has. Hes certainly not stopping anyone else from doing the same. Giving away his lifes work for nothing in return just doesnt make sense.

I have a lifetime supply of QH's. With the tens of thousands out in the wild there will never be a QH shortage so no worries there.

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Shaker666
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by Shaker666 » Sat Apr 06, 2024 1:25 pm

Yeah, those Xilinx chips have been a real PITA the last few years. In aerospace we're using them for flight computers (autopilots) and they had like a 52 week ARO. Total PITA, but my understanding is that lead time has gone away.

Regardless, I'm with you guys on the IP part of Moates shutting down, I would happily assist in standing up a new processor to replace the QH, but it would be a massive leg up if the original source was available to transition to a new board.

Everyone always shits all over the Tweecer, but I have 2 of them running reliably in GUFB boxes for the last 20 years. It's pretty damn hard to argue with that. I sure as hell wouldn't use CalEdit, though... if BE can be used to flash them, you're golden, if not... well play at your own risk LOL. I just soldered in a new coin cell for my QH and being a software engineer, I can assure you my soldering job ain't pretty!
'89 Fox: 8.6:1 306, GT-40 lower, Blowzilla 2.2, ProM 92mm MAF, 90mm TB, LU80s, TwEECed A9L w/EDIS8
'79 Bronco: 8.5:1 408C-2V, Lightning lower, Cobra upper, LMAF, 65mm TB, 24# injectors, EDIS8, Moates F3, single O2
'66 Mustang: 10.5:1 289, Victor Jr. EFI intake, 90mm TB, LMAF, 30# injectors, CDAN4 TwEECed
'00 Mountaineer: 9.2:1 302, ported Perf. RPM2, LMAF, 65mm TB, LU24As, READ0, QH currently
'08 & '09 Buell XB12Ss, 1125CR: DDFI3 tuned via TunerPro RT

pyrogestate
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by pyrogestate » Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:29 pm

Hi can please purchase a Jaybird Programmer and a F3V2 hardchip, I would much appreciate it for my 1989 Mustang LX coupe....

pyrogestate
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by pyrogestate » Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:37 am

Can I purchase a Jaybird programmer and a F3V2 chip, and a rotary switch if you have one from you, for my 1989 Mustang LX coupe it would be greatly appreciated......

JuiceSC
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by JuiceSC » Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:27 pm

Email or PM Decipha. That's what he said in his post.
91 GT, A9P, systemax II, 75mm tb, AFP, 75mm Pro M, 42#, Vortech S trim, GT40 crate 5.0, BBK catted X, flows, Tremec 3550, Pro 5.0, 3.27 gears. Tweecer RT, TunerPro.

wsickness
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by wsickness » Thu May 16, 2024 12:59 am

My problem is I can no longer get the software, had to sadly replace the HDD in my laptop and figured I could download it from his site... But noooooooooooo now my quarter horse is practically useless.

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Shaker666
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by Shaker666 » Thu May 16, 2024 1:15 am

What software are you looking for?
'89 Fox: 8.6:1 306, GT-40 lower, Blowzilla 2.2, ProM 92mm MAF, 90mm TB, LU80s, TwEECed A9L w/EDIS8
'79 Bronco: 8.5:1 408C-2V, Lightning lower, Cobra upper, LMAF, 65mm TB, 24# injectors, EDIS8, Moates F3, single O2
'66 Mustang: 10.5:1 289, Victor Jr. EFI intake, 90mm TB, LMAF, 30# injectors, CDAN4 TwEECed
'00 Mountaineer: 9.2:1 302, ported Perf. RPM2, LMAF, 65mm TB, LU24As, READ0, QH currently
'08 & '09 Buell XB12Ss, 1125CR: DDFI3 tuned via TunerPro RT

wsickness
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by wsickness » Thu May 16, 2024 3:09 am

The binary editor and eec software that moates sold on his site

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cgrey8
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by cgrey8 » Thu May 16, 2024 6:39 am

That software should be available on the original developer's site.
http://eecanalyzer.net/downloads

Moates did not develop that software. They were just linking to it since it worked so well with their hardware.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Hardhit77
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by Hardhit77 » Wed May 22, 2024 11:45 am

decipha can you check your PMs when you get a chance?

amcknight
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by amcknight » Fri May 24, 2024 2:59 pm

Hardhit77 wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:45 am decipha can you check your PMs when you get a chance?
+1

vintagespeed
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Re: Moates QH and J3 Chips Are Still Available

Post by vintagespeed » Wed May 29, 2024 5:58 pm

+2 or 3 or whatever.

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