Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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ANNOUNCEMENT - YOUR feedback appreciated!

Post by Jon 94GT » Tue May 17, 2005 2:56 pm

Ok guys, I've decided to expand the site. As some of you know, I am the administrator of the site here, and have been managing and keeping this place running for the past 3 or so years. There is a great wealth of information on here, and the site can be so much more than just a plain jane message forum.

So here are a few ideas I have been shooting around in my head, and some things I already have coming:
1) I registered a new domain name, which should be active within the next 24 hours. The new URL will be http://eectuning.org (the old one will still work also to avoid losing anyone).
2) This site will no longer be TwEECer oriented only. I will add sections comparing all of the various known tuning devices. Pros, Cons, etc (this is one of the areas I will be needing other peoples experiences and opinions on).
3) I am a software developer by day, and will 'flesh' out this site with a tuning/log file management and posting section, details on the ideas I currently have are below.

SOFTWARE NOTES
1) Online real-time calibration/log file submission which is integrated with the web boards user database. This enables users to submit their logs and calibrations without the need for an additional username/password.

2) CCF calibration files are tagged with several variables, which include, but are not limited to: Year of car, EEC processor (J4J1/A9L/etc), modifications, and misc notes.

3) Log files are tagged with several variables, which include, but are not limited to: Year of car, EEC processor, EEC processor calibration base (ex: J4J1 on a WH40, etc), modifications at time of log, and misc notes. Another item of note is that log files submitted will be automatically compressed, parsed (to attain version of calcon the datalog was generated in), and the number of records and approximate length (in time) will also be recorded/displayed along with it. I may add the ability to graph sections of the log(s) to compare them online (just another idea I thought of right now).

4) Users will be able to search and sort based on EEC processor/strategy, year of car, description, and notes.

5) All users will be allowed to compose FAQ’s/Howto’s/technical documents which may be submitted and approved by certain defined moderators/users. The users allowed to approve such documents for listing will be configurable. Approved documents will be displayed to all users for viewing.

6) An administration panel which controls many different features such as: users allowed to approve technical documents such as FAQ’s/Howto’s, limits on number of log/CCF files each user may post, limits on the size of log files submitted (based on size or length), the ability to ‘prune’ the submitted items and remove/modify any undesirable/wasteful data.

7) A rating system in which all registered users may rate a technical document as to the amount of information/help it provides (basically a ‘how helpful was this to you?’ poll).

8 ) A function/scalar/table definition section. This would include the name of the item, the tuning device that it covers (tweecer, eec tuner, etc), the processor/strategy it is for, the units of the/each value, and how the value affects the vehicle. Users are allowed to submit updates/changes which are then approved by the ‘moderators’ of that section (configurable from within the management interface).

----

I am currently without a mustang, so this is my way of staying in the hobby while I am in-between cars. I feel that a general Ford EEC tuning site with the ability to post tunes, track logs, etc would be of great benefit to everyone, so thats why I am doing this.

Now as most of you know I have been running/managing this site absolutely free of charge to all, with no ads whatsoever. I plan on keeping it this way...only that I will provide a method by which those that wish to support my work via donation to do so. There will be no min or max donation, nor a requirement to actually donate...I will just ask that if you enjoy and benefit from what you recieve here, to please support the system that brought it to you.

Right now I am mostly still in the planning stages, and would appreciate any feedback and ideas any of you have. The tune/log/etc management probably will be available in a few months.
Last edited by Jon 94GT on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by 93Cobra#2771 » Tue May 17, 2005 3:36 pm

Sounds like some great ideas, Jon. Glad to see the site begin to move forward again, as I feel it has become somewhat stagnant with regards to FAQ's.

The addition of the file browsing is a GREAT idea, as the yahoo files section is kind of tough to browse through at times.

I'm a little unsure of adding all types of tuning to the tweecer site, but as long as each type of tuner has its own section, I guess that is OK. I would certainly bring growth to the site. Kind of like www.stangtuning.com.
4) Users will be able to search and sort based on EEC processor/strategy, year of car, description, and notes.
Great Idea!

Regarding the donations thing, I'd suggest adding a "donating member" tag/icon with that user's screen name. A little "perk" for the donating member.

An update of moderators for the site would be nice. Not neccessarily for control of drama (hardly any here), but for timely control of stickies/FAQ, etc. Of course, with your increased work with these upgrades, that prob. won't be a problem.

I'll offer my services to you. I'm a degreed Graphic Designer, so if you want a logo or whatever for the new domain name, let me know, and I will work something up for you, no charge. I'll also offer my services as a moderator if you feel the need.
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Post by Jon 94GT » Tue May 17, 2005 4:16 pm

Sounds like some great ideas, Jon. Glad to see the site begin to move forward again, as I feel it has become somewhat stagnant with regards to FAQ's.
The reason it has been stagnant is I was waiting to get something together with Mike and STKR. However it seems he lacks interest in making this site more than a message board and into something truly usefull.
The addition of the file browsing is a GREAT idea, as the yahoo files section is kind of tough to browse through at times.
I agree, yahoo files was certainly NOT designed for the use Mike and others tried with it. It is at best a very poor solution to sharing bin/ccf and logs.
I'm a little unsure of adding all types of tuning to the tweecer site, but as long as each type of tuner has its own section, I guess that is OK. I would certainly bring growth to the site. Kind of like www.stangtuning.com.
That is exactly what I had in mind as far as the forums go. There will be generic tuning sections and then more specific, tool oriented forums for those specific devices.
Regarding the donations thing, I'd suggest adding a "donating member" tag/icon with that user's screen name. A little "perk" for the donating member.
Ah yes, I have seen this on a few other boards but for some reason it hadn't crossed my mind yet. I will definitely implement that.
An update of moderators for the site would be nice. Not neccessarily for control of drama (hardly any here), but for timely control of stickies/FAQ, etc. Of course, with your increased work with these upgrades, that prob. won't be a problem.

I'll offer my services to you. I'm a degreed Graphic Designer, so if you want a logo or whatever for the new domain name, let me know, and I will work something up for you, no charge. I'll also offer my services as a moderator if you feel the need.
I agree we need more moderation to control the trash laying around. I will take a look at your past posting history, and I will let you know if I enable you as a moderator. I suppose I should look around for other long(er) term members that wish to moderate as well. I personally don't have time to prune the forums much. If you would like to work up a logo and/or some graphics I would be all eyes...I would call myself adequate with graphic design, but it is by far not my strongpoint :roll:. I'll make a thread in the next day or so asking for people to make/donate logos and we can have a contest of sorts :).

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Post by Smokin98GT » Tue May 17, 2005 4:58 pm

I am relatively new to tuning, but this form has been a lifesaver!!! There is another site that just came up recently that is hosting ccf and bin files, but for some reason it does not appear to have much traffic. (tweecerfiles.com) I think your ideas would be great! To be able to search through scalar definitions according to strategy would really help. Not to mention cut down on all the "What does this scalar do" posts. It would also be nice to read what other people are doing in the way of tuning. I know SCT goes about things quite a bit different that some of the members here, but everyone ends up at the same place. (Eventually :D ) If a donation will help get rid my daily headaches then I pay!!! 8)
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Post by boss96 » Tue May 17, 2005 5:15 pm

Sounds good, Jon, can't wait to see the updates.
Let me know if I can help with moderating or whatever. We need to keep people like 93Cobra#2771 in line :lol:
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Post by Jon 94GT » Tue May 17, 2005 6:32 pm

Smokin98GT wrote:I am relatively new to tuning, but this form has been a lifesaver!!! There is another site that just came up recently that is hosting ccf and bin files, but for some reason it does not appear to have much traffic. (tweecerfiles.com) I think your ideas would be great! To be able to search through scalar definitions according to strategy would really help. Not to mention cut down on all the "What does this scalar do" posts. It would also be nice to read what other people are doing in the way of tuning. I know SCT goes about things quite a bit different that some of the members here, but everyone ends up at the same place. (Eventually :D ) If a donation will help get rid my daily headaches then I pay!!! 8)
Thanks, I am glad to hear the forums have helped you out, even if it isn't anything more than a simple message board at the moment. I had seen the tweecerfiles.com site, and the issue with that is that for users to post their bin/ccfs they first must submit them to the administrator of that site, then must be approved and THEN added to the page manually (from what I can tell). This costs a lot of time, and it also depends on one or a few people looking them over and making the changes by hand. The system I am developing will be fully dynamic, when you post your CCF/BIN via special forms which have embedded DHTML/etc your CCF/BIN/etc is automagically available instantly to all users. No need for intervention on anything except the technical documents, which I think I will also tie into the moderation section of this forum...so that moderators are also document approval sources as well (and there is more than 1 or a handful to get things done/approved/taken care of).
boss96 wrote:Sounds good, Jon, can't wait to see the updates.
Let me know if I can help with moderating or whatever. We need to keep people like 93Cobra#2771 in line
I'll look over your past and let you know if you also qual for moderation. The requirements won't be too strict...mostly just a good track record for treating people appropriately, some amount of time that you have been a member (probably no less than a year unless I know you specifically), and a general desire to help out/not cause chaos.

I also will post a thread tomorrow asking all that are interested in a moderation position to place a request for the section(s) they desire to moderate. I will look over the requests and then decide on some new additional moderators...probably totaling about a dozen or so.

There are already a few members I know I would approve immediately if they desire to be moderators, I'll send those requests off tomorrow morning as well.

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Post by Dale McPeters » Tue May 17, 2005 6:55 pm

Some very good ideas John. If there is anything that I can do to help donate, write articles moderate, sweep the floor etc. let me know.

And like Bob said we need to keep 93Cobra#2771 in line too.................. :lol:
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Post by twinturbostang » Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Jon 94GT wrote: The reason it has been stagnant is I was waiting to get something together with Mike and STKR. However it seems he lacks interest in making this site more than a message board and into something truly usefull.
That's a bit odd. :( Are we still looking forward to future software releases, or is that done also?

BTW, not sure if you've planned for anything like this or not, but I see it could be useful to have sepparate naturally aspirated and forced induction tuning sections. Some of the tuning is quite a bit different depending on your type of combo. I for one would love to see a forced induction (or even turbo only! heh) section. I could probably contribute some to that area as well.

Oh, and keep an eye on that McPeters guy. Need to keep those wild Texans in check also! :D
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Post by 2Shaker » Tue May 17, 2005 9:39 pm

I can't wait to be part of this fun!!

I really like items 4, 7 and 8. By the way, I have been helping Clint on and off with his embedded Help files in EEC Analyzer so I would be willing to help write the definitions for the scalers for the CBAZA strategy processors as this is where my experience lies so far.

And I too am wondering if we are an orphaned user group now. We haven't seen any improvements to TwEECer for a long time and there are some maddening software quirks in the tool. I am grateful to have it but it seems with just a modest amount of software development it could have a lot of the quirkiness eliminated. Its like Mike is either up to his eyeballs trying to figure out new strategies (like Spanish Oak!) or he has lost interest.

Speaking of Spanish Oak in the '05's, how long will it be before us tuners will be able to modify that stupid throttle by wire Ford implemented? I would love a new Mustang but that item alone has me a little gun shy. We have an '03 CTS (forgive me for I have sinned) and I hate the throttle by wire in that thing. The computer is always second guessing me - "should we really allow all that throttle just now?" :x
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Post by twinturbostang » Tue May 17, 2005 9:58 pm

2Shaker wrote:The computer is always second guessing me - "should we really allow all that throttle just now?" :x
Good point. Wouldn't be hard at all for them to add a couple of lines of code....

IF ((Vehicle_location = Highway) AND (Speed > 55)) THEN
GOSUB Reduce_throttle
ENDIF

:evil:
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Post by Mean92LX » Wed May 18, 2005 8:12 am

It sounds like you are taking the site in the right direction, and I can't wait to see the results.

I just started using my Tweecer again with the installation of the turbo kit I am putting together on my 95 GT. I would love to see an FI section, not to mention some more tuning info geared towards the 94-95 turbo cars as they seem to be the bastard step children of the EEC community.

Also I have a friend that has been trying to get Mike to go Open Source on CalEdit so he could fix some of the problems with it but that has fallen on deaf ears for several years now. Any thoughts or plans on creating a new software package for interfacing with the Tweecer? I have begun ripping apart the binaries to do something for myself but with all the strategies out there that will take forever.
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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 9:37 am

twinturbostang - I do not work for STKR, the maker of the TwEECer, I only run this board. So I do not know if or when Mike will make another software release. However like many others I have long felt the update process is very slow moving at best. We haven't had a 'stable' (if you can call any of them that) release since 1.9. And the beta 1.20 series was atleast 2 years ago, and we've only had 'alpha' 1.30AX series since. I don't know about anyone else, but the only reason I think people put up with it is that there are no other choices in its current niche market. I certainly would look long and hard at the choice had there been another. Some of the bugs that have been in the software since version 1.9 should be simple to fix, and I don't know why they haven't seen any attention. It's as if he/they don't care about the software. I remember a lot of promises about future abilities of the software which have all but materialized as well...I just don't get it. Mike, if you don't plan on updating the software, please let us have a go at it! I argued for the longest time that we are dealing with a virgin product and we have to deal with issues like this, well, that was over 3 years ago. Ok, off my soap box...

Mean92lx - Before the RT was even released, when I first met Mike and saw his home workshop, I also mentioned the idea of either open sourcing or getting some help with the software which was seemingly more than a one man required task, he was completely uninterested. I am pretty sure he wants to keep the software to himself...although I don't see why he couldn't just be a hardware supplier, still make money, and let the community expand the software. Certainly many heads are greater than one...and I know that I and many others would donate their development time to the software if the source was opened and taged along with an equally enticing open source license such as one of the BSD's, GPL, or Apache licenses (see http://www.opensource.org/licenses/). *HINT* But I seriously doubt it will happen.

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Post by Daren Woodall » Wed May 18, 2005 10:19 am

I haven't read this whole post yet due to time shortage. Sorry if this is already stated.

Since you are deliberately expanding this site to topics beyond STKR products, I feel it is worthy of creating a section for EEC Analyzer. EEC Analyzer adds significant value to TwEECer and I think it could benefit from discussions centered around this product.

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Post by Dale McPeters » Wed May 18, 2005 10:35 am

Daren Woodall wrote:I haven't read this whole post yet due to time shortage. Sorry if this is already stated.

Since you are deliberately expanding this site to topics beyond STKR products, I feel it is worthy of creating a section for EEC Analyzer. EEC Analyzer adds significant value to TwEECer and I think it could benefit from discussions centered around this product.

Daren
I agree with Daren............. :wink:
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Post by DrDirt » Wed May 18, 2005 11:49 am

These are all great ideas and I, for one, am thrilled to see these proposed changes and additions. Although I'm not a noob, I've been reading this site for over a year now I still get lost in all the misinformation and just plain errors that are dreged up with the search function. Consolidating all the knowledge that is in the posts on this board will be a daunting task but it is something that badly needs to be done. If I weren't a complete electronics idiot, I'd love to help. Unfortunately I'm sure I would cause more harm that good. Therefore, I'll join the cheering section for the great people on this site that actually know their way around and are willing to make things happen. Well done guys and good luck with this fantastic idea.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - YOUR feedback appreciated!

Post by Ed Hohenberg » Wed May 18, 2005 1:35 pm

Jon 94GT wrote:
8 ) A function/scalar/table definition section. This would include the name of the item, the tuning device that it covers (tweecer, eec tuner, etc), the processor/strategy it is for, the units of the/each value, and how the value affects the vehicle. Users are allowed to submit updates/changes which are then approved by the ‘moderators’ of that section (configurable from within the management interface).
Hallelujah!

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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 1:54 pm

Daren - I had planned something like what you are asking for...I will most likely work together a plan for changes and have some people such as yourself give it a once over and critique it a bit.

I am glad to see everyone getting excited about this...it helps to have some cheerleaders at times. I have already begun the coding process...I hope (but am pretty sure) you guys will like what I have in mind. Tonight I will be PM'ing a few of you about moderator positions, posting a thread requesting logo submissions, and start working up a new design for the site.

If anyone wishes to speak with me via instant messaging, I am available via the handle 'biz347' on AIM. I think I have that saved on my profile here, but I'll make sure of that in a second.

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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 3:32 pm

I just thought of another idea that maybe people would like. If we could get the various data locations for variables in the .bin files, I could make it modify them online. So either I could build a tuning app that is based on the data we enter for the various data points via the web interface, or some sort of pre-modification for beginners...such that it would ask basic questions about the setup and change some settings initially. Sort of a step-by-step initial tune...I think it sounds like an idea, anyone familiar with the EEC Tuner (or TwEECer for that matter) software know if we can somehow mine the information out of it/them? I think a step by step initial tune would be a GREAT thing for beginners...

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Post by Smokin98GT » Wed May 18, 2005 3:44 pm

Isn't that something that sould have come with CalEdit? :lol:
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Post by unruhly429 » Wed May 18, 2005 4:08 pm

POPUP Ads??? No Way!! I'm glad to hear that you don't want ads. But, I think you should consider sidebar links/logos to recommended reputable dealers that carry the tuning devices that we would be talking about. Many of them already contribute to the forums and may have additional info on their respective web-sites that would help in the purchasing decision. So, why not give them an advantage toward sales and make a little money in the process that will propell the forum to where you want it to be? It's a win-win situation. :D
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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 pm

Smokin98GT wrote:Isn't that something that sould have come with CalEdit? :lol:
Yes, actually, lol....but hey, we need it, and it would be nice to be able to do a questionare that would automagically modify a bin before you download it...pre-configuring it for your setup. I think it would help out a lot of people.
unruhly429 wrote:POPUP Ads??? No Way!! I'm glad to hear that you don't want ads. But, I think you should consider sidebar links/logos to recommended reputable dealers that carry the tuning devices that we would be talking about. Many of them already contribute to the forums and may have additional info on their respective web-sites that would help in the purchasing decision. So, why not give them an advantage toward sales and make a little money in the process that will propell the forum to where you want it to be? It's a win-win situation.
Thats not a bad idea actually...some limited ads based on what users here would like might be something I should look into. I'll have to think about that...

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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 6:25 pm

Jon 94GT wrote:...I think it sounds like an idea, anyone familiar with the EEC Tuner (or TwEECer for that matter) software know if we can somehow mine the information out of it/them?
I just thought of how to get that information, and its quite simple...I will just use EEC Tuner to modify BINs and then see where the change was made in the file. Simple as pie. I am definitely going to implement this idea, I think it will be very popular...please let me know what you think about enabling the web software to do BIN modifications.

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Post by twinturbostang » Wed May 18, 2005 6:43 pm

CalEdit will read BIN's but I don't think it will write them. Mike switched over to his encrypted CCF files to lock everything in. So I'm guessing this web based tool would be good to get you started. But then after that, you have to save the file in a .CCF format which means you use CalEdit after that. Unless you're talking about doing ALL modifications using the web tool. But that has some problems as well, like needing to have an internet connection wherever you're tuning, etc.
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Post by Jon 94GT » Wed May 18, 2005 6:58 pm

twinturbostang wrote:CalEdit will read BIN's but I don't think it will write them. Mike switched over to his encrypted CCF files to lock everything in. So I'm guessing this web based tool would be good to get you started. But then after that, you have to save the file in a .CCF format which means you use CalEdit after that. Unless you're talking about doing ALL modifications using the web tool. But that has some problems as well, like needing to have an internet connection wherever you're tuning, etc.
Exactly, this would be a good tool to get started from if you use caledit to mod your binary files. If you use the EEC Tuner software, then it will be able to keep modifying those, as it writes its files in native bin format. The TwEECer still writes its data in BIN format to the TwEECer ITSELF, it just encodes them when it saves them to disk...so if we find a way to read/write bins to the TwEECer we will be good to go. For the time being however, it will mainly be a method to get started with, which for that purpose it will work just fine and be of great help I think.

Also, no one said I couldn't make a client based program to modify bins, much like caledit or the EEC Tuner software. Might be something to look into after a while...

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Post by Mean92LX » Wed May 18, 2005 10:43 pm

I was going about reading the bins a little differently, but I like your idea better. I will start on that tomorrow and see how long it takes to do a strategy.
95 GT - T4M0
BB&T 331, AFR 165's, 1.6 RR's, Turbo Cam, Cobra Intake, 42#, 70mm TB, EGR delete, no smog, 3" Pro-M Univer, PT-70 Turbo kit with B&G headers and a custom y-pipe with 3" catco cat. Tweecing currently for 9-12psi with an RT, and PLX M-250.

Jon 94GT
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Post by Jon 94GT » Thu May 19, 2005 9:22 am

Mean92LX wrote:I was going about reading the bins a little differently, but I like your idea better. I will start on that tomorrow and see how long it takes to do a strategy.
Great, thanks for getting on that task. I will integrate the mapping of the BIN data into the system so that the records in the database are used in the modification of the BINs. Doing that will ensure that we are able to properly configure the utilities for each strategy and setup properly.

Mean92LX
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Post by Mean92LX » Thu May 19, 2005 9:57 am

My buddy and I have been talking about doing an open source tuning package for a while, but the main drawback was all of the strategies that have to be broken. Too bad Mike won't man up off of those .dat files. :twisted:
95 GT - T4M0
BB&T 331, AFR 165's, 1.6 RR's, Turbo Cam, Cobra Intake, 42#, 70mm TB, EGR delete, no smog, 3" Pro-M Univer, PT-70 Turbo kit with B&G headers and a custom y-pipe with 3" catco cat. Tweecing currently for 9-12psi with an RT, and PLX M-250.

93Cobra#2771
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Post by 93Cobra#2771 » Fri May 20, 2005 3:15 pm

Another thought - an updated BBS format would be a nice addition as well. For example, even the corral.net has a newer interface than the tweecer forum.

What do they call it, "VBB" or something like that?
Richard White
X3Z, RT, GT40y's, ported intakes, Steeda #18, AFM PP, 80mm Pro-M, MSD, MAC E/L, Dr Gas X, 3.73, etc.

I do Reproduction Mustang Window Stickers!

"Tweecer Defs" http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/twe ... mentation/

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Post by Jon 94GT » Fri May 20, 2005 4:27 pm

93Cobra#2771 wrote:Another thought - an updated BBS format would be a nice addition as well. For example, even the corral.net has a newer interface than the tweecer forum.

What do they call it, "VBB" or something like that?
corral.net pays for their VBB, which is called VBulletin ( http://www.vbulletin.com/ ) which costs a minimum of $85 for a 1 forum license per year. This enables you to use the software for only 1 year at which point you either purchase another license or must remove the software from your site and discontinue use. So, considering all expenses are coming out of my own pocket, I doubt I will be upgrading to anything which is not atleast open source (since I am going to be integrating it with a lot of my own software that I am developing), and probably has to be free as well.

Thanks for the idea though, any and all ideas/suggestions/input is welcome :).

LEE93COBRA
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Post by LEE93COBRA » Sat May 21, 2005 8:54 am

For the tweecer guys, I have a tech forum that started up this year that includes a EEC forum (mostly tweecer but was originally created for all tuners). It utilizes vbullentin forum software (which I own a lifetime license) which offers a lot of nice features including a good search function. Everybody is invited to drop by and join. http://forums.qwiksnake.com
93 Teal Cobra....11.57@118.7 mph (1.7 60 ft) Old Setup

New setup. D-1, AFR 165's, AFM B-31 cam
525rwhp/532rwtq @14 psi
Co-owner of Deep Stage Performance

mustang tech & EEC forums www.streetstangs.net

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