Anything about Ford EEC tuning. TwEECer and Moates questions dominate, but there's some SCT and OBD-II knowledge too.

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David Claflin
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Dynoed my 90LX yesterday

Post by David Claflin » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:38 am

This is the 306 with the heads that were done by Neil Erickson and a Jay Allen cam,rest of combo is in the sig block. I found out I was pretty close on the tune from the start. First run was 327RWHP/340RWTQ. Also found out that I actually made better power with the prochamber then I did with open headers by about 2HP.
First run I had the PCV system, for the next run I hooked up the lightning evac pump. Gained .7 HP and 4 Ft. lbs. Pulled 3" X-pipe and ran open headers, damn that was loud; gained about 1 HP and 2Ft lbs. Then put on the frankenchamber (It's a prochamber that started out as a shorttube set up. I modified it with 3" inlet tubes while keeping 2 1/2" outlet tubes) Gained another couple HP and torque. Then I started on the tune itself, leaning A/F ratio didn't do anything, 12.5:1 worked best. Added 2 degrees timing, gained a couple more on each, added 2 more and it didn't do anything so brought total timing to 33. Final run was 334RWHP/351RWTQ. This is my daily driver so I had told Jay that fuel mileage was important when we were talking about the cam he was going to make. During the week when I drive it I'll get 18.5-19, on the highway I'll get just under 27. Although that last number may be higher now because the Neil ported heads are so much more efficient then the home ported ones that I actually picked up almost 1 MPG just by swapping heads. That 27 MPG was with the old heads and an old tune that didn't have a new way I learned in how to manipulate the O2 reading in the longtube headers.
Just for gee-whiz on the last run I loaded a cal file that just had 30LB MAF and 6 degrees more timing which is what would be typical of someone putting a cal'd meter and bigger injectors on a H/C/I car. It made 307RWHP and not much more than that for torque. It ran like ass, and even threw a check engine light. :lol:
Here's a crappy scan of the dyno sheet. I forgot to bring disks up so he could load them onto a disk for me.
Image
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by David Claflin » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:57 pm

Forgot to add a thanks to the board members for answering my dumb questions. Especially to Clint for creating the EEC Analyzer, without it I would not have been so close on the initial run, basically the only changes I made to the tune was to add 3 degrees of timing. The only other changes were mechanical like the evac pump and exhaust and that was just to do a comparison for my own learning.
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by 86GT » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:24 pm

Congratulations David. Those are very impressive numbers for a N/A setup. Thanks for breaking it down step by step for us.

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Post by fidstang » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:09 am

good numbers, no doubt that the acceleration is great with that cam.
Did you decide to keep the pump or go with the Evac for milage?

Would you be willing to send me a copy of your tune. Our setups are very close with the exception of cams. Mine is a CI for forced induction, but the N/A setup is very similiar.

Thanks,
Fiddie
94 Cobra:
10.27:1 327sbf, Edelbrock Vic. Jr heads, Victor 5.0 EFI, XE276HR w/1.6RR, 80lb/hr Siemens injectors, HPX slot MAF, 65mm fox body TB conversion, 1 and 5/8" BBK shorty headers, Xpipe with stock mufflers, T5 trans, aluminum drive shaft, 3.73 gear, and no smog, AC or EGR.

Running a Vortech V1 SQ-trim head unit with a 2.95" pulley, but without a belt while I tune for N/A.

CBAZA- J4J1

91LX Hatch: Build put on hold until I finish school.

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Post by Green-Jimmy » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:09 pm

That's some really great mileage-- especially for making that kind of power and running a 3.73 gear. Nice combo.

-Jeff
1992 5.0 LX - 363 Dart Block, AFR185, 60lb Injectors, 80mm PRO-M MAF, XE274HR Cam, Edelbrock RPM2, GForce T5, 3.73, BBK 1 3/4, 3" VRS Catted X-Pipe, A9L, GUFB, Tweecer RT, BE, EA, LM-1

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Post by David Claflin » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:47 pm

fidstang wrote:good numbers, no doubt that the acceleration is great with that cam.
Did you decide to keep the pump or go with the Evac for milage?

Would you be willing to send me a copy of your tune. Our setups are very close with the exception of cams. Mine is a CI for forced induction, but the N/A setup is very similiar.

Thanks,
Fiddie
I use GUI software with the eec tuner. PM me your email address and I can do it.
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by David Claflin » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:58 pm

fidstang wrote:good numbers, no doubt that the acceleration is great with that cam.
Did you decide to keep the pump or go with the Evac for milage?

Would you be willing to send me a copy of your tune. Our setups are very close with the exception of cams. Mine is a CI for forced induction, but the N/A setup is very similiar.

Thanks,
Fiddie
You've got mail
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Adam McLaughlin
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Post by Adam McLaughlin » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:34 am

Those are some impressive numbers for N/A. Bravo.

How did you manipulate the O2 sensors for long tubes? I run Hooker Super Comp Long Tubes myself, and I have always suspected that I have not addressed them well in my tunes.

Adam
1989 GT with V-2 SQ, 42 lb and 80 MM Pro-M MAF. Twisted Wedge H/C/I - A9L
1992 Ranger with 9.4 : 1 357 C.I. Mustang MAF - AFR 185s - A9L - TFS Stage 2

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Post by David Claflin » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:35 am

Adam McLaughlin wrote:Those are some impressive numbers for N/A. Bravo.

How did you manipulate the O2 sensors for long tubes? I run Hooker Super Comp Long Tubes myself, and I have always suspected that I have not addressed them well in my tunes.

Adam
Thanks, I've been messing around with the HEGO delay. I have an LM-1 and just compare what the wideband shows to what is on the datalog.
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Adam McLaughlin
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Post by Adam McLaughlin » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:15 pm

Dear Dave,

Hmmmm........... Interesting. Let me know what you saw with your values. I run the Hooker Super Comps, and I am very interested to know what yours turned out to be as well.

Adam
1989 GT with V-2 SQ, 42 lb and 80 MM Pro-M MAF. Twisted Wedge H/C/I - A9L
1992 Ranger with 9.4 : 1 357 C.I. Mustang MAF - AFR 185s - A9L - TFS Stage 2

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Post by David Claflin » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:59 pm

The hard part about this is the LM-1 will fluctuate between 14.5-14.8 during steady state cruise. I was thinking that this is the A9 adding/subtracting fuel. I wonder if it will get where it isn't constantly switching? I know I'm making progress because before at that speed the LM-1 would read 14.3-14.4, even when the MAF was leaned out quite a bit.
I have a datalog that I did when I came back from the dyno shop. I was on the highway, cut the engine and refired it. After a few miles I pulled over and downloaded it so it is mostly steady 70-80MPH. I can post it up or email if you like?
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Adam McLaughlin
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Post by Adam McLaughlin » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:53 pm

Email me what you have, sir.

I am quite interested in learning how these things work in regards to aligning the tune to the wide band sensor.

Send it to:

TwEECer {at} pogowave.com

Thank you!!

Adam
1989 GT with V-2 SQ, 42 lb and 80 MM Pro-M MAF. Twisted Wedge H/C/I - A9L
1992 Ranger with 9.4 : 1 357 C.I. Mustang MAF - AFR 185s - A9L - TFS Stage 2

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Post by sailorbob » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:20 am

When in closed loop the eec will always fluctuate about stoichiometric. It needs to see the voltage switching from lean to rich and vice versa to work correctly.

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Post by 2Shaker » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:01 am

sailorbob wrote:When in closed loop the eec will always fluctuate about stoichiometric. It needs to see the voltage switching from lean to rich and vice versa to work correctly.
And it appears that David has done a terrific job of keeping that range of swing very narrow around the 14.7. Really impressive stuff here.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by David Claflin » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:15 am

2Shaker wrote:
sailorbob wrote:When in closed loop the eec will always fluctuate about stoichiometric. It needs to see the voltage switching from lean to rich and vice versa to work correctly.
And it appears that David has done a terrific job of keeping that range of swing very narrow around the 14.7. Really impressive stuff here.
Thanks!! I don't know that I've done a terrific job, there's still some improvements to be made I'm sure.

http://members.cox.net/superirish/HWY85DL.txt
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by David Claflin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:06 pm

Any comments on the datalog??
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by 2Shaker » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:03 pm

David Claflin wrote:Any comments on the datalog??
The only thing of note in my mind is the ACT. Seems way too high.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Adam McLaughlin
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Post by Adam McLaughlin » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:06 pm

That's not too unusual; I see ACTs of 164 F when my ECT is 184F on my car when driving around on a 90 degree summer day.

But - this could be due to my car being outfitted with a V-2, as well..... All of that hot oil could be heating up the air on its way into the engine.

Adam
1989 GT with V-2 SQ, 42 lb and 80 MM Pro-M MAF. Twisted Wedge H/C/I - A9L
1992 Ranger with 9.4 : 1 357 C.I. Mustang MAF - AFR 185s - A9L - TFS Stage 2

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:26 am

Since I upgraded to the latemodel alternators it's been awhile since I've seen VBAT lower than 14.2 with dual fans and A/C on.

I relocated my ACT. In either location it will log ambient temps once the car is underway after a few minutes. It's my impression that even if I'm logging 150 degrees at the starting line with a heat soaked intake the sudden rush of air when launched would be substantially cooler than 150 degrees and the sensor would not react soon enough. I know Ford later moved the ACT to the filter box

What I have found is that it is much easier to set timing on a 70 degree day and have it pull out a degree or two on a 100 degree day.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Adam McLaughlin
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Post by Adam McLaughlin » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:30 am

Hmmm... I never did think about why Ford moved the ACT to the filter box in later cars, but they did, didn't they?

Adam
1989 GT with V-2 SQ, 42 lb and 80 MM Pro-M MAF. Twisted Wedge H/C/I - A9L
1992 Ranger with 9.4 : 1 357 C.I. Mustang MAF - AFR 185s - A9L - TFS Stage 2

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:18 pm

Adam McLaughlin wrote:Hmmm... I never did think about why Ford moved the ACT to the filter box in later cars, but they did, didn't they?

Adam
I believe 94 was the first year Ford did it in the Mustang. I do have a Cobra lower which has a port for the ACT so I figure 93 still had it even in the Cobra's. None of my Explorer lowers have it.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Post by 2Shaker » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:21 pm

I can tell you that in the CBAZA calibrations they either pull timing or add fuel (or both) if the ACT is above 116 and you are in OL. I normally see close to ambient except at the end of the 1/4 mile. I have an intercooler, but under normal cruise and idle the bypass valve is open so the intake air is subject to the heating of the tubing etc, but even then it normally stays under 116. It is located out near the fender opening.
94 GT, CBAZA/J4J1, 347 (on a R302 block), F303 cam, Performer II Intake, 1.7 Crane RR's, 1 5/8 Shorties, 70MM BBK TB, C&L 85mm Tuner MAF, Pro-Charger D1SC, 60#'s, TKO 600. Runs 11:80's

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Post by cgrey8 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:04 pm

patrickmx2 wrote:...I believe 94 was the first year Ford did it in the Mustang. I do have a Cobra lower which has a port for the ACT so I figure 93 still had it even in the Cobra's. None of my Explorer lowers have it.
I believe 93 Cobra was running the ACT in the lower still:
Image

My 97 Explorer lower has the undrilled provision where they were still putting the ACT in the #5 cylinder intake runner. But by 97, they were putting the ACT in the intake snorkel before the TB on Explorers too:
Image

However by 98, that provision was removed from the casting, but you can still drill it out:
Image
Image
Image
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:28 pm

I have 3 lowers but one upper that is actual Cobra. At one point I just mounted the ACT in the bottom of the UPPER

Image


Just to the left of that vacuum port in this picture, facing opposite of the picture, is a hole large enough to thread in an ACT.

Image[/img]
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Post by David Claflin » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:04 pm

ACT temps are high, because it was in the mid 90's, and on the black top highway with no shade at all that was no help either I'm sure I've got a open filter element with a cover over it so that it draws air fron the fenderwell. THe ACT sensor is in the GT-40 lower in the stock location.
I'm going to put the fibreglass cowl hood from my GT on it this weekend just to see how it affects ACT.
1990 LX/A9L/302, Ported RPM heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3"exhaust, T5, 3.73
1985 LTD LX, A9L, ported TW heads, ported Holley SMII,1 3/4 longtubes, 4.10, T5trans, mach 1 brakes.
1986 coupe, A9L, former FHP car, stock shortblock, TW 11R190heads, stock cam +4, VIC Jr EFI. 4-holeTB, Pro-M Duo, 2 slotmeters, 1 3/4 longtubes, 3" exhaust, T5Z, 4.88
1993 LX A3M, 347, 11R205 heads, Ported Holley SMII, 1 3/4 RCI headers, 3" exhaust, 4.10s

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Post by 86GT » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:37 pm

Hey that picture looked familiar. LOL

Yes the temps are a tad higher when the ACT is mounted in the lower track. I generally see temps in the 170-180 on the ACT while idling and it goes down to 140-160 while cruising. This is with a supercharger. When at an idle the bypass valve is open causing the compressed air to recirculate. This will bring the temps up too.

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Post by cgrey8 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:53 pm

86GT wrote:Hey that picture looked familiar. LOL...
Yeah, I thought you might.
patrickmx2 wrote:...At one point I just mounted the ACT in the bottom of the UPPER...
I tried that, but it was a no-go with the Explorer upper because that hole isn't tapped at an angle. It's pointed straight down:
Image
Image
As you can see, there's no room to get the wiring harness onto the ACT with it mounted there for me. Just to give some perspective, my finger wouldn't slip between the plastic and the valve cover.
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:59 pm

I tried the same thing on my explorer upper. The Cobra on the other hand does have a large threaded port up by where those water hoses are located. You can't see in my my picture because I'm behind it.

I just routed it to my fender area.
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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Post by cgrey8 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:08 pm

That's what I did. I mounted the ACT in the end of my cone-air filter. You can just barely see the ACT in the cone in this picture:
Image
...Always Somethin'

89 Ranger Supercab, 331 w/GT40p heads, ported Explorer lower, Crane Powermax 2020 cam, FMS Explorer (GT40p) headers, aftermarket T5 'Z-Spec', GUFB, Moates QuarterHorse tuned using BE&EA

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Post by patrickmx2 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:38 pm

man...I like the engineering in that picture of the various pieces. Oh I would so hate to change the plugs though
90Stang Kenne Bell/ ExplorerGT40P/HOCAM/1.7RR/36lbinj/ 5spd -CBAZA
06Stang 4.0 dual exhaust. Stock.
QH/BE/LC-1 and moates.com chips
http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/patrickmx2/
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

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