[crakrz]

This is my first thread. I have been reading, searching, learning and tuning my own car since Feb, and because of that, I have not needed to ask any questions yet. But the time has come for some needed advice.

A good friend of mine and new forum member Stu ‘aka auIILTD’ has just embarked on a project of an engine swap for his 2002 Australian LTD. He is also on a steep learning curve for BE/EA and the QH. He got the QH up and running with the 302 over the weekend with the stock bin to make sure all was ok before the heart transplant. From all my reading over the months, I can determine that our NGVB5 strategy is a bit of a mix of some of the US strategies. The basic air, fuel, spark stuff is just like GUFB with a few CBAZA things thrown into the mix.

The stock engine that has been pulled out is pretty much like mine (see sig) basically an Explorer 302 windsor. Over here they came stock with Explorer/Cobra manifold 65mm T/B, 24lb injectors, 70mm Maf, 4-1 shorty crimped and creased headers, HO cam or thereabouts, GT40p heads, 9:1 comp and that’s pretty much it, backed up by a 4speed auto.

The engine that’s going in is a factory 342 stroker. In 2002 Ford Australia wanted the last Windsor powered Limited Edition T-Series Falcons to have a bit more oomph. So they stripped down standard imported Windsors, re-honed the standard bore, stroked them out to 3.4”, fitted dished pistons to 5.4” rods, fitted a different cam- specs from memory were 203/209@.050, .480” lift, 117deg Lobe Sep. GT40p heads with larger valves and some unshrouding in the chambers. Comp was 9.6:1, a unique 3 piece large plenum inlet manifold with individual trumpets, 82mm T/B, 80mm Maf and some decent 4-1 shorty headers.

The only other options Stu is fitting is a complete free flowing exhaust and a Lightning 90mm Maf as the 80mm one didn’t come with the deal.

So my question is, apart from changing SARCHG, Injector settings and MAF transfer, ITHBMA, FN875N & FN875D idle airflow functions, what else should I be changing at least to make sure we can get it up and running before tuning on the dyno?

Any advice and input from anyone is welcome? Thanks in advance.

Craig and Stu

[cgrey8]

...The stock engine that has been pulled out is pretty much like mine (see sig) basically an Explorer 302 windsor. Over here they came stock with Explorer/Cobra manifold 65mm T/B, 24lb injectors, 70mm Maf, 4-1 shorty crimped and creased headers, HO cam or thereabouts, GT40p heads, 9:1 comp and that’s pretty much it, backed up by a 4speed auto...

That sounds about right although my own measurements and findings would seem to suggest 9:1 may have been the target, but it wasn't the end result. The head gaskets are .047" thick...at least they were on my Explorer 302. And every piston was in the hole .015-.017" making for a huge gap between the pistons and the heads. I calculated compression much lower than 9:1 for the engine I tore apart. My numbers were closer to 8 than 9. Also all the Explorer V8s over here either had 19lb or 17lb EV6 (skinny) Bosch injectors. The orange 19s had the older EV1 style connector where the ivory 17lb injectors came with the newer USCAR connectors. It's interesting Ford was delivering these engines with 24s outside the US. Injectors weren't the only change made to the Explorer engines over the years. On the v8-ranger.com forum, we tried to collect all the known differences over the years and here's what we came up with just amongst us on the forum. I know there are bound to be more differences not captured here, but this gives you an idea of just how much Ford goes tinkering with what's supposed to be the same motor.
V8-Ranger.com>Explorer motors

But yeah those Explorer tube-style headers were absolute crap. They eventually replaced those tube manifolds with Cast Iron versions which flowed much better.



I have the FMS GT40p Explorer headers which are full size tubes although they are still the crazy shape needed to fit in the cramped small truck engine bay. They are better than the cast irons...

...The engine that’s going in is a factory 342 stroker. In 2002 Ford Australia wanted the last Windsor powered Limited Edition T-Series Falcons to have a bit more oomph. So they stripped down standard imported Windsors, re-honed the standard bore, stroked them out to 3.4”, fitted dished pistons to 5.4” rods, fitted a different cam- specs from memory were 203/209@.050, .480” lift, 117deg Lobe Sep. GT40p heads with larger valves and some unshrouding in the chambers. Comp was 9.6:1, a unique 3 piece large plenum inlet manifold with individual trumpets, 82mm T/B, 80mm Maf and some decent 4-1 shorty headers...

Impressive. I never knew Ford made a "production" 347 stroker (342 with 4.000" bores) anywhere. And I believe the intake you are describing is the GT40 Upper Intake. It looks very similar to the Cobra and Explorer upper, but has the individual tubes for each runner vs each tube webbed together in an aluminum casting. They don't produce quite as much torque as the Cobra and Explorer intakes (on a 302), but are the ideal candidate of the 3 uppers for stroked engines. They ran that same upper on the 351 Lightnings.

I can't say much about the cam specs. They are better than the Explorer cam for sure...but not much isn't. That cam should prove to be a decent torque cam. Although don't expect it to extend high in the RPM range. It'll likely be tapering off shortly after 4500 and falling on its face around 5500. Of all the HO production cams, the one I'm most impressed with is the 93-95 Cobra cam. When used with 1.7RRs, it offers the best combination of torque and HP of any stock production Windsor cam I'm familiar with. Of course you don't have to look far to find better in the aftermarket, but for budget-builds, you just can't beat the Cobra cam for the money particularly with replicas being bought new for ~$100.

Is he sticking with the 24lb injectors or upgrading? I'd expect 24s will be at their limits on the engine you are describing above with little room for error. If he doesn't upgrade the injectors, an adjustable FPR to get the pressure up to around 50PSI may be needed just so you don't max the injectors completely out.

There'll likely need to be changes to the Accel/Transient fueling tables (and possibly related functions). With different TB, MAF, intake, and modified head ports, things may be good enough or there may be issues.

Along with higher displacements will be more cranking air going into the engine. Make sure you increase the cranking PW of the injectors in ratio with the increased displacement. Close is generally good enough. And if there are issues, you'll likely only notice them on hot cranks.

[crakrz]

Thanks for your response Chris. These Factory strokers are rare as rocking horse sh**. Stu has done well to track one down. They had heaps of good bits in them, Yella Terra roller rockers, H-Beam rods, ceramic coated pistons, ARP head and main studs, mains stud girdle, and some other stuff that eludes me at the moment.
In regards to the inlet manifold, it was actually made in Australia by A.W.Bell who were contracted by Ford to do the manifolds and T/Body. They are very rare now. Here are a few pics. I hope the links work ok.

http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/ll45 ... 5408_b.jpg
http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/ll45 ... 050024.jpg
http://i315.photobucket.com/albums/ll45 ... 080028.jpg

As for the fuel pressure, the standard reg pressure was increased. I cant remember for sure but I'm pretty sure it was 4.3bar (60psi). I don't even know if thats pressure is possible, I'm going off memory. But it was definitely increased, I've seen it in the specs.
These engines were advertised at 250kw, 500nm (335hp, 375ft/lb)

-Craig

[cgrey8]

I can't view those pics here at work because the stupid firewall blocks photobucket. But I'll be sure to check them out when I get home.

I was guessing 325-350hp. I'm building something similar...high compression 331 stroker and am hoping to be up somewhere near 300hp. The stroker kit, cam, 1.6RRs, roller timing chain set, and aftermarket spring package are the only aftermarket "upgrades". The rest is either 100% stock Explorer equipment or stock modified/ported. I knew from the beginning this was going to be a torque build, not a high RPM build. It's for my daily driver and I spend FAR FAR more time below 2000RPMs than above it, so it only made sense to stroke it. And I needed the new engine "shape" to be exactly like the stock Explorer 302 that's in there now to avoid clearance issues.

Good luck with that build. I hope it ends up working out well for him.

[crakrz]

The stock motor is already out, 342 going in tomorrow. Just want to get the basics of the tune sorted so that she fires up straight away. Just another question while I'm at it- I have noticed there is more than one 90mm Lightning Maf transfer on EA, and one that Decipha listed in one thread some time ago is slightly different again. I don't know much about 90mm mafs but how do we know which transfer to use. Is there a part no. that matches up or something like that. It was purchased brand new from over in the US from Last Call Racing -part no.frp-90mmlmaf

Thanks

Craig

[cgrey8]

I would probably start with decipha's curve. I don't know how well those curves in EA have been maintained or kept up. I do recall there were some 80mm LMAFs. But the 90s are far more popular. And I've heard rumor there were 2 different 90mm curves, but only 1 is the popular one. I have to believe there's more to the story but for your purposes, I believe his curve is the one that represents the MAF most people know of as the 90mm LMAF.

[auIILTD]

Thanks for taking the time to make this enquiry Craig. Thankyou cgrey8 for your input so far.

If interested, this link shows the promotional video back in 02 about the engine I am dropping in today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJvUrgJla5k

Thanks guys
Stu

[cgrey8]

Now that I can see the pics, that intake a VERY different than the GT40 intake. And I see now why you referred to the runners as "trumpets". That setup is more kin to the Trick Flow Box R intake than any other stock intake I've ever seen. I'm amazed Ford ran that on a production vehicle. Very interesting...

[crakrz]

Hi Stu, I never even thought of putting up that clip. Well done.

Anyone else think of anything we may need to change?

Thanks
-Craig

[crakrz]

Good news, engine transplant done, new tune written to QH, she fired up first go. Now just some logging and some tweaks to be done over the next few weeks.

Thanks

Craig and Stu. :gears:

[David Claflin]

By chance are those upper and lower intakes available in the aftermarket over there? Is it really based on a GT-40/Cobra lower or something else?

[crakrz]

Those intakes are not available at all in the aftermarket or genuine. They were a completely different upper and lower. Must have cost Ford a fortune for the very limited number that were cast.

-Craig

[auIILTD]

Thanks Craig.

As Craig has reported, the engine is fitted and our first tune worked wonderfully. My learning curve has started and also as reported, we will be refining the tune over the next few weeks.

For those interested, here is the first startup video. Quite a bit of tappet noise for the first few seconds, but quietened down nicely. I did have the rockers off to change the valve springs, so a bit of noise was to be expected.



Photos of the transplant on my website (link in Signature) in the gallery area if you want to see more of my Australian Ford LTD.

I look forward to utilising this site further and getting to know some of the guys a little better.

Cheers and thanks
Stu

[cgrey8]

Hopefully things will continue to go as smoothly as that 1st crank.

I remember my 1st crank attempt. The engine wouldn't crank because I didn't know which way the distributor spun and landed the plug wires onto the distributor in backwards order. As soon as I figured that out, fixed the order, it started up...but badly retarded. A touch of the distributor had it purring like it was supposed to. The next day, I got all the pieces in and gave it a very loud drive around the neighborhood. Fortunately I lived in the country so I wasn't disturbing that many people. Wow that seems like just yesterday. I guess that's coming up on 6 years ago now that my V8 Ranger 1st came alive. And here I am today building a 331 for it. Everybody on the V8 Ranger site told me that's what would happen. They were right. And I guess Stu is following right along in that same tradition.

Remember, Alot is good.
More is better.
And too much is JUST RIGHT!

[auIILTD]

Thanks cgrey8.

I am hoping too! Off to a great start - fired first crank (lucky, I run EDIS). Great help from my Australian Ford Forum Members, Craig and my Tuner - 400 miles away.

A couple of things that I need to address immediatly. My first data logging run revealed that my TB is potenetially not opening fully and my ECTs are a bit high - 204 to 210, so this weekend's work will be to get the temps down, address the TBV and install the Walbro GSS-342 fuel pump that I bought today.

Cheers guys.

Stu

[fidstang]

Cross your fingers with that block and stroke combo! That was their first mistake, second was keeping those heads stock cast.

[crakrz]

Cross your fingers with that block and stroke combo! That was their first mistake, second was keeping those heads stock cast.

The integrity of the stock block is not under threat here as it in STD trim. This car is a cruiser, smooth idle, truck loads of torque at low rpm, and standard rev limiter of about 5600rpm. The power is all over by 5200rpm. But there are certain things with this factory combo that always puzzled me.

Ford Australia wanted to compete with Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) LS1 powered cars which were putting out 255kw. So Ford made their target 250kw. Why they went to the trouble and expense of special inlet manifold, stroker crank, rods, pistons, throttle body, mains girdle, and all the extra labour expense and then stick with basically stock cast heads has me stuffed. The large t-body, large plenum, short runner intake all speak of high rpm, the cam and heads does the opposite. 250kw certainly could have been achieved with the explorer intake, decent heads, 70mm t-body, FMS cam, and some decent compression. The good thing for the guys that have them is they have heaps of potential. One of the guys over hear put some AFR165's on there and a tune with a stock cam and is now putting out 250kw at the treads, not the flywheel. Best of both worlds.
Some of the factory decisions are mind boggling to say the least.
-Craig

[cgrey8]

Yeah, I've always heard you match your components. Mismatching "low RPM" heads and intakes with a high RPM cam gets you the best of neither. In fact, the best you can hope for is MAYBE a wider torque curve.

But personally, I'd rather have all the components working together...augmenting each other in their strong areas and all falling-off together creating a very clear rev limit and shift-point. With the cam specs listed above, the heads, and all the other mods, I would've thought keeping Explorer upper intake and porting the lower would be a far better choice than the BOX intake. With a ported lower, the Explorer intake is good up to about 400HP (300kw) & 5500 RPMs. After that, it's torque curve falls off pretty quickly which is why aftermarket intakes can tout larger HP numbers over most stock intakes even though a stock ported intake can often get you more "area under the curve" than an aftermarket intake will which is far more meaningful in practice than hitting max HP values. But being able to tout max HP numbers, makes for good advertisements. The only other reason I can think of for wanting the BOX intake is to overcome clearance issues that the big plenum intakes created interference with???

Add to that, I can't help but wonder how much thought was put into the decision to upgrade the valves? There's mixed opinion on whether increasing the valve size in GT40p castings is really worth it. If you don't port the heads at all, the answer is a big fat NO. But there are some sites that indicate a mild gain from both porting and increasing the valve size. Unfortunately the cost in every scenario, in my opinion, is not justifiable vs just topping the engine with decent aftermarket heads. Add to that, I don't recall a site where they flowed the heads as-cast, then flowed them again after being ported (with stock valves), then flowed them again with the larger valves. All comparisons are against the MM&FF stock flow numbers after both porting and valve upgrades were done. The cost of increasing the valve size is somewhere in the $600+ range for valves and machine work and that doesn't include the time/cost/effort to port the heads. Even if you already have the heads in-hand, re-valving the heads is tough to justify.

As said above, their component choices are perplexing to say the least.

[fidstang]

I've been reading and seeing a lot of cracked stock 8.2 deck blocks from the 3.4" stroke and moderate rpms. If you plan on keeping it below 6000rpm you should be safe, but just keep an eye on sudden variations in oil pressure during hard acceleration. Yep, when I seen that video you sent, I could not believe that they didn't port the heads and convert them to studs. But, at that point a good set of aluminum heads would be a cost saver.

You may want to keep that old engine to build as a back up or if your plans change. Do you have enough room in the bay for a 9.5 deck engine?

[crakrz]

Thanks for your input fidstang. And yes is the answer to your question. There are a few of our later model falcons getting around with 351w in them. As they didn't come factory fitted, they have to be approved. That's if you tell them of course........ But I had no idea Officer :sorry:

[auIILTD]

Update for the followers of this thread. My earlier reported ECTs have now been brought under control, by a change of thermostat and adjustment of hi and low fan points.

I am currently enjoying being a first time Quarterhorse user and loving the results that are achieved with simple changes that the average Joe has no idea about. Still learning and are still amazed at what I learn every day about the power of these ECUs and amazed at what we put up with as a 'stock' tune.

Also, on a positive note, I know know of at least 5 or 6 more people that have been enlighted by my telling of my story on Australian Ford Forums, along with crakrz, that are now going to begin using a Quarterhorse to tune their cars. This technology is seriously under utilised here in Aus, so it is nice to know that we are starting a movement (finally) out here.

Loving learning from this site,

Thanks and regards
Stu

[decipha]

Remember, Alot is good.
More is better.
And too much is JUST RIGHT!

one can never attain too much

I remember when 400rwhp felt good, that eventually did nothing for me, then i jumped up to 600, that felt good for a while, then that died off too, I think 700rwhp will hold me over for a while, If that doesn't cut it, I think next i'll be building a 5.4 with about 45lbs of boost, shooting for 1500rwhp maybe i'll slap that in a dragster and run some high 4s in the 1/4 ?? :) not anytime soon

[crakrz]

Hey Stu, just a thought- can you add your strategy and bin to your sig just for when some more Aussies venture over to this site. I know there are a few already.
-Craig

[Scaffy]

Good to see you guys having success with the Quarterhorse on the LTD!

Glad to see the "movement" is gradually gaining momentum!

[sprint347]

I've put it off long enough... the TwEECer is GONE and the QH is in the mail!

[Scaffy]

I've put it off long enough... the TwEECer is GONE and the QH is in the mail!

Shane, is that you? Or is there another tough Sprint being built, somewhere in Australia? 2DCA would be what you're running?

[auIILTD]

That would indeed be Shane. He posted the same on Australian Ford Forums.

Cheers
Stu

[crakrz]

How's that eh, I just looked at the bottom of this page and there were 3 other usernames online that I recognized from home and no one else. Makes sense I guess. But don't you guys have better things to do on a Sunday arvo than check forums?
I guess that includes me too...... :duh:

[sprint347]

I've put it off long enough... the TwEECer is GONE and the QH is in the mail!

Shane, is that you? Or is there another tough Sprint being built, somewhere in Australia? 2DCA would be what you're running?

There does seem to be alot of Sprints out there these days, but yes it's me.

I'm finally listening to what you guys have been saying for years, I'm pretty keen to see how good the EEC is for a turbo combo using a QH and wideband.

[auIILTD]

Welcome to the party guys. Although I am very much a tuning newbie, I am loving what we can do. Learning every day, and, not sure if it is valid on this forum, but how much power does the QH & BE have over the later model SCT XCALs. Love it.

Cheers,
Stu