[VM0824]

I started it up today for the first time with the kit. was too afraid to even give it gas b/c my wbO2 was reading like 17+ at idle. amazingly it idled fairly well.

i wrote this tune with help from a couple guys suggestions and the faqs and such. i dont know what the process is here. should i datalog a gentle accel, dial in the fuel, then redo. each time giving it alittle more oomf? im afraid to give it any real throttle b/c im afraid my numbers are going to be so far off. now i came up really lean so should i scale the whole curve down a bit? can someone please look through my tune and a datalog at idle? suggestions are very welcome and appreciated. i wanna make sure i do this right.

here my tune

turbo-47#-C3W1-SeaLevelOnly-BoostLoad-DSFSO.BIN

heres some notes about it

turbo-47#-C3W1-SeaLevelOnly-BoostLoad-DFSO.txt

and heres datalogs. both at idle. it idles fairly well. bounces up and down alittle but only stalled twice.

2011_Dec_15_16-06-07.csv

2011_Dec_15_16-02-09.csv

[markedforlife]

Longtube headers?
Cam specs?
VSS hooked up? i did see a zero in the mph column in BE.
E10 or straight gasoline?

I would work on the idle for now since it runs which actually is a good start. Increase the entire
maf curve by 10% and run another log.

[VM0824]

shorty turbo headers.
vss is hooked up.
stock cam.
e10

EDIT: what i think is gonna make things trickier is the placement of the O2's. the driver side is a foot or more past the collect on the crossover pipe. the passenger side is directly after the collector (because the turbo mounts right after that. and the wideband is like 20 inches from the turbo on the downpipe. so the driver side bank has alot farther distance to reach both its narrowband and the wideband.

[decipha]

i usually disable 1 hego and put the wideband and the hego across from each other in the downpipe as close to the exit housing as possible

[VM0824]

ok and i know this is prob a dumb question. but can someone confirm or correct me on my understanding. lambses are the afr that the computer is demanding. stft are the corrections made to achieve those goals. so by changing my curve to match the lambse to the wb, the stft should be 0? do i need to clear the kams every time too? or does EA compensate for that?

also i noticed that in my datalogs my lambses appear to be calculated for reg gasoline even though i have the fuel type set to e10. are lambse just multiplied by 14.64 nomatter what or is it possible demanding a slightly lean mixture (for e10 at least).

[NotchAbove]

I really recommend you do everything in lambda verse afr. It simplifies everything.

But to answer the question, you have to make sure that in BE, in the setting tab, User Preferences, you pick your stoich. For e10, I believe its, 14.08. If you choose lambda here, and then setup the wideband to display lambda, the numbers will never be questionable based on the fuel type. Then you can select gasoline in your tune, and then set your lambse to where you want them to be regardless of the fuel type.

[VM0824]

ok i took her for a 2 mile journey today. started off well. idling pretty fine. i babied her up to speed and everything was fine. got noticed the afr bouncing pretty hard each way. got on it. just barely touched boost with part throttle and WOW (et 150.). however afterwards i stalled. and it ran like shit the entire way home. stalled every time i pushed the clutch in. actually barely made it home. didnt sound like i broke anything, just ran disgusting. for the most part clipping lean or clipping rich. no comfy median.

anyway in eec analyzer i loaded it all up. copied the maf transfer from the tune (with 10% increase). and with both trims selected it calculated a curve just alittle under (richer?) than previously. but when i select wb it gives me this ridiculous "curve". im pretty sure i disabled adaptive so shouldnt this work?

also i clipped my maf and didnt even really get on it, was using a 05+ ford one but i guess i need a nice one.

thing barely idles now though. im not sure what i did or how to fix it :(

[NotchAbove]

You are super lean all the time.

I would increase the curve another 15% all around. I'd be real careful if I were you, some parts of the log are super lean (lambda is way higher than the commanded lambse).

Also why log the afr in lambda and the lambse in AFR. Be consistent. Just tell BE to use lambda.

[NotchAbove]

What strat is this ? What computer ? I don't think its GUFB.

[VM0824]

ok and i found my problem. blew off a hose when i got into boost. and ok you mean the afr transfer function?

guf1 - c3w1

edit: i multiplied all the transfer function by 14.08.

[NotchAbove]

What wideband are you using ?

[VM0824]

http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images/Pr ... 0-4100.pdf
aem digital

[NotchAbove]

I would just change the setting in BE so that it shows lambse in lambda.

Have you run this through EA ?

Another concern and I don't know why it would be, is the difference between lambse 1 & 2. There are large differences between the 2.

[VM0824]

There was a difference before the turbo too. But they're also different distances from the collector by maybe a foot. What could cause that? Only about a year or so old. Bosch

[markedforlife]

ET 238.203 Battery voltage at 9.375 volts? WILL cause big time ignition problems... FIX FIRST...
ET 154.186 Load at 110 and the OL column at zero for closedloop? One is openloop
I did'nt see a Flags1 bit2 column so i assumed this is the ol/cl column? Decipha???
ET 187.39 Lambda at 1.14 or afr of 16.0 probably why it was running bad.
ET 123.48 Lambes 1 vs 2 off a full point. Inspect all plugs or could be lean causing a misfire.
Slope settings are? Lambda looked rich at high load so thats ok but not perfect.
SET YOUR HIGH LOAD TIMING DOWN TO 16 UNTIL YOU GET THIS THING STRAIGHTENED OUT...
(Above 70%) set at 16 for now.
I noticed at 0.00 volts you had different Maf kg/hr readings, problem, not sure but i think so.
Recheck lower intake torque, and check for exhaust leaks, its important not to let outside
air enter the exhaust stream ahead of the wideband and hego sensor which WILL cause a false lean.
Clear kams each time when you enable adaptives and make a change and finally when using EA
after you open a datalog filter AEFUEL/EFTRFF/DFSO before you calculate MAF SLOPES
BREAKPOINT AND OFFSET.

[markedforlife]

I just looked at your maf transfer and i would change your 0.5281 volt to 11.723 maf kg/hr, that
way you have a different voltage for 0.000 volt. But the bigger problem is.
At 154.386 ET your at 1093.7 kg/hr which is at only 4300rpm. Your maf transfer only goes to
1002.452 kg/hr so your car probably went into maf fault limp mode. Your meter is way too
small. Though the car is rich now leaning it out will drop kg/hr a little but not enough. Also
set all your FN037 column values to max which is 3.90616? just put 5.00 and it will find the
highest number.

[decipha]

i multiplied all the transfer function by 14.08.

since you oviously don't know what your doing you should heed the mans advice and resort to lambda

put the values back as they were

[cgrey8]

...since you oviously don't know what your doing you should heed the mans advice and resort to lambda

put the values back as they were

Harsh delivery with no tact, but true in both assessment and recommendation.

[VM0824]

first off thx for being so thorough and going through it all, i appreciate your time.

ET 238.203 Battery voltage at 9.375 volts? WILL cause big time ignition problems... FIX FIRST...

i was trying to start the car at that point, had stalled. starter was pretty hot i think so it had trouble.

ET 154.186 Load at 110 and the OL column at zero for closedloop? One is openloop
I did'nt see a Flags1 bit2 column so i assumed this is the ol/cl column? Decipha???

i'm definitely included it in the payload. it seems to be in cl anytime the cars running, only time it went into ol was when it stalled

ET 187.39 Lambda at 1.14 or afr of 16.0 probably why it was running bad.

it defintely went into maf limp mode bc when i got home i realized the 2 seconds i got into boost blew the coldside piping in the fender well apart after the meter. it didnt fit smooth to begin with, im working on finding longer rubber couplers to fit it right so that doesnt happen again. so basically everything after et 154 ran without a working maf

ET 123.48 Lambes 1 vs 2 off a full point. Inspect all plugs or could be lean causing a misfire.

plugs are new autolite coppers

Slope settings are? Lambda looked rich at high load so thats ok but not perfect.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/ic ... 3-lu47.pdf used those values exactly except bkpt = 3.973e5 as per this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19067

SET YOUR HIGH LOAD TIMING DOWN TO 16 UNTIL YOU GET THIS THING STRAIGHTENED OUT...
(Above 70%) set at 16 for now.

fixed (10 degrees retard at some points)

I noticed at 0.00 volts you had different Maf kg/hr readings, problem, not sure but i think so.

fixed

Recheck lower intake torque, and check for exhaust leaks, its important not to let outside air enter the exhaust stream ahead of the wideband and hego sensor which WILL cause a false lean.

will do tomorrow

Clear kams each time when you enable adaptives and make a change

im assuming this is the "clear ram" button in the hardware tab?

and finally when using EA after you open a datalog filter AEFUEL/EFTRFF/DFSO before you calculate MAF SLOPES
BREAKPOINT AND OFFSET.

ok i made 3 filters for them with min=max=0. deleted almost a 1000 rows. i still dont really get much of a change in curve though. being as lean as i am almost everywhere, EA offers me almost an identical curve. i should have adaptive off while dialing in the maf transfer?

set all your FN037 column values to max which is 3.90616

ok, i may just get the maf that the guys at on3 offered me since the transfer function is what they've had work on their setup.

since you oviously don't know what your doing you should heed the mans advice and resort to lambda

put the values back as they were

i meant the transfer for the wideband, not the maf, if thats what your thinking. i returned the values to lambda. set BE to lambda in settings.

[markedforlife]

Look more closely at vbat there are 11.6v all over the place.
At 110 load at 4304 rpm there was no indication of it going open loop like it should when you got
on it even though lambda was rich (safe)? I think OL is the status of its either open loop or
closed loop in the log.
autolite r3923 gapped at 30 is my choice.
Closed throttle idle spark comes from FN111
Read up on using 1 spark table for O/L part throttle and WOT. Z_SPKINT is the setting to change
though. FAQ is where this answer will come from.

Clear kams using ''clear ram'' NO NO NO
Go to Z_KAMCLR, where it says normal hit the down arrow select ''Clear KAMRF'' then
write that to the quarterhorse after completing this step go back to Z_KAMCLR again and reset
it back to Normal and write this to the QH again.

You filtered correctly.

Two trains of thought on adjusting MAF transfer, read up on this one.
What MAF meter is on3 offering you? size and type? Let the board members decide that
for you not a salesman...Start a new thread on that.

[markedforlife]

HLCTM was the reason i did'nt see the o/l flag at 110 load, change this scalar from 2.000
seconds to 0.000 ( this is a time delay)

[VM0824]

well i didnt think id have to touch the wot spark tables since i followed this FAQ to simplify timing.viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16800&hilit=simplify+timing

i figured this would be better for me.

im waiting for a reply from on3, prob not till tomorrow. i was also looking at either getting a similar, maybe used vmp hpx http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.ph ... &parent=30. gotta see what i can find on ebay. alternatively, im gonna do some calc on my ford maf to see where it would be around 6.5v (top end range of that sensor). b/c i had read on this forum the MAFia isnt a horrible device. soo if i can attenuate the signal from 0-6.5 to within 0-5, given that 6.5 allows me to reach around 1500+kg/hr, id imagine that would be an alternative setup.

[EDS50]

At this point I would spend some time going over the basic mechanicals because its easy to tune around mechanical issues. Check your timing, plugs, turbo pipes, vacuumexhaust leaks, fuel pressure, valvetrain adjustment i.e. rocker adjustment etc...Also check all your settings in BE and decide on whether your going to use lambda or afr. I personally use afr since its just easier for me to use.

[VM0824]

i checked for exhaust/vacc leaks today. nothing apparent. ive never screwed with timing mechanically. but i have it retarded wayyy back in the tune until i get the fuel dialed in. would i need to adjust the rockers if ive never even screwed with them. everythings pretty much stock. only upgrades are fuel. new inj and new pump. no valve noise that i can hear. no pinging at any rpm.

and i just ziptied/hose clamped most vac lines i could find so they dont blow off again. as soon as i found the vac leak it went right back to running where it was before the issue. idles/runs ok

[EDS50]

i checked for exhaust/vacc leaks today. nothing apparent. ive never screwed with timing mechanically. but i have it retarded wayyy back in the tune until i get the fuel dialed in. would i need to adjust the rockers if ive never even screwed with them. everythings pretty much stock. only upgrades are fuel. new inj and new pump. no valve noise that i can hear. no pinging at any rpm.

and i just ziptied/hose clamped most vac lines i could find so they dont blow off again. as soon as i found the vac leak it went right back to running where it was before the issue. idles/runs ok

Timing should be set to 10 btdc with the spout plug out. Fuel pressure 39 with the vac line off. if the motor is untouched then the rockers should be fine. I adjust mine at a minimum of once a year just for peice of mind. Dont retard the timing too much becuase you wont be able to get fuel dialed in. Make sure your wb is calibrated properly and that it is integrated with BE properly with afr xfer and all if you are logging through the evp port. Most of the time idle afr will be lean because of came choice used. My car idles perfect with the afr in the 17-18 range. Thats just where she likes to idle stable. You should try disabling adaptives and closed loop. Clear the kamrfs and run o/l only to get your fuel and maf dialed in properly.

[VM0824]

i took the advice from above and dont have more like mayb 17 degrees when in high load. i copied the transfer right from aem website. im noticing however that when i put my current maf transfer in be and then select wideband calculation, it gives me a super low curve. as in the low voltages from idle go from teens and 20's to like 3. this cant be right. wont that lean it out even more by making the computer think there's less air than in reality? everything is in lamda now. the wb transfer, the settings in be, etc. my lambses do vary from time to time though. cant seem to find a leak though.

also plugs are gapped to 28 i think as per the on3 instructions.

[EDS50]

i took the advice from above and dont have more like mayb 17 degrees when in high load. i copied the transfer right from aem website. im noticing however that when i put my current maf transfer in be and then select wideband calculation, it gives me a super low curve. as in the low voltages from idle go from teens and 20's to like 3. this cant be right. wont that lean it out even more by making the computer think there's less air than in reality? everything is in lamda now. the wb transfer, the settings in be, etc. my lambses do vary from time to time though. cant seem to find a leak though.

also plugs are gapped to 28 i think as per the on3 instructions.

28 is good on the gap. Make sure they are copper not platinum plugs. I dont trust wideband readings with adaptives and closed loop enabled because the ecm is constantly trying to target stoich in c/l and constantly adding removing fuel to do so. All of my starter tuning begins in open loop. Once the lambses and afr are very closes then I re enable adaptives and closed loop and let the ecm dial in the rest but most I prefer on my own vehicle do forget about adaptives all together and just enable c/l. If c/l gives me a headache then I just keep it o/l. My open loop tune gets me 260 miles a tankful with 93 octane in my 89 and I dont baby the car at all. Especially on the parkway and turnpike...lol

[VM0824]

haha babying a car on the parkway would be like driving a moped on the autobahn.

yea they're def copper. i disabled dfso, cl, adaptives, until i can get everything sorted out. im gonna go play with it and see if i cant drive around the neighborhood without blowing it up

EDIT: so to clear kams i have a separate tune i made with the kamclear variable set to clear. i put that tune on, start the car, wait 5 seconds. turn it off, switch to the normal tune. im still having trouble with everytthing disabled and then using EA. maybe i just dont know what im doing. but i load the datalog i took sittin in my driveway, filter the dfso, aefuel, eftrff. try to use wb to match lambses to afr and i get this

yepyep.jpg

[EDS50]

haha babying a car on the parkway would be like driving a moped on the autobahn.

yea they're def copper. i disabled dfso, cl, adaptives, until i can get everything sorted out. im gonna go play with it and see if i cant drive around the neighborhood without blowing it up

EDIT: so to clear kams i have a separate tune i made with the kamclear variable set to clear. i put that tune on, start the car, wait 5 seconds. turn it off, switch to the normal tune. im still having trouble with everytthing disabled and then using EA. maybe i just dont know what im doing. but i load the datalog i took sittin in my driveway, filter the dfso, aefuel, eftrff. try to use wb to match lambses to afr and i get this

yepyep.jpg

With kamclr active you shouldnt be able to run the car. At least mine doesnt. I just enable camclr, write the tune to the hardware, cycle the key on and off 3 times and then write the tune withour kamclr. You may not have your filters set up correctly in EA or your maf xfer is that bad or something else is off. I didnt expect to see that mess you show in ea for just idling in the driveway.

[VM0824]

to be honest im not that far off anymore. like if my lamses are 1.01 i maybe 1.04. sometimes at least. during cold start i guess it wants some leaner lambses to help warm up engine?

so the tune isnt horrendously off at all. for the most part its close. i notice some super lean reading after i get off the gas. dfso disabled btw.

as for the bad EA calcs idk how its getting those numbers. id expect the curve to be higher right? but they're not even feasible. theres gotta be something skewing it so immensely

and i guess im doing something wrong if i can start my car with kamclr on?